Secularism is now a National Security Threat

[ranjeet]

Read first three words in the first post, didn't bothered reading any further.If Saif Ali Khan is being quoted here than this article isn't worth the paper it was printed on.

 

[AugenBlick]

Ehmmm.... i don't understand a thing.. in this thread...
Since, i don't know about the subject, or culture in India, or their religion.....

Just one thing.... secularism is the seperation between state affairs and religion... it doesn't makes an individual less religious.

In india it is practiced differently follow this logic to understand :-

a) India has a first past the post system i.e. means multi-cornered contests and winning vote share is usually 30-40% and could be as low as 28% .(last govt had 29% vote share) this is similar to Britain.

b) Almost 20% population on average are muslims.

c)THE EASIEST way to gather about 30% vote is first to call your self "secular" and preach "equality" winning the vast majority of muslim vote and then cutting away a piece of votes from the majority through cast/clan/bloodline affiliations.

d) Add to this process a place with low level of literacy( due to colonization although it is 91% now , it does not mean education)

e) As soon as a party wins through this method , their next job is to secure this vote bank which is done through the following ways
1) Social benefits to only muslims
2) Salaries to only immams/islamic preachers.
3) welfare schemes for only muslims(Karnataka)
4) Filling up the region with muslims from Bangladesh.
5) highly rigged and discriminatory legislation.

The result:
a statement from our last PM who left office 6 months ago.
Muslims must have first claim on resources: PM - The Times of India

To put this in context about 66% indians are poor (multi dimensional ) i.e. 1.2 bn * .66 = 712 million .
Assuming all 200 milion indian muslims are poor that leaves 500 million indian non muslims poor. Now tell me how is this good for the country.

But the article does not focus on that. It specifically says that secularism and protection from "hindu fascists" is raked up conveniently ignoring the fact that all 43 terror groups are either Islamists , secessionist or Naxal (left wing revolution types).

 

[jbond197]

Some people have serious misconception about secularism. First of all, it is a state concept. No individual can be secular or non secular. Only a state can be secular or otherwise. India's constitution clearly separates religion from the state affairs and gives everyone equal freedom to practice their religion. So India is a secular country by design and will remain secular. Only a constitutional amendment can change the current status but the probability of that happening is basically zero.

Are you sure what you said is in effect on the ground? Then why do GOI recognizes/enforces Hindu marriage law, Muslim personal law? Why do we give reservations in govt funded organizations based on religion? I understand we need to help poor get education but then how come religion of the poor is relevant to draw conclusion that who gets the benefits?

 

[HeadHunter]

These radicals had been dormant for 6 decades since independence, they think this new government will tread in their path.

Sir! I have told this before this is going to happen if modi and RSS comes to power. Now modi is going to do something like what zia ul haq did to Pakistan .Mixing Backward religious extremism of any kind with nationalism has horrible consequences .
Yes modi may be good for your economy but by forcing old hindu beliefs from 10,000 BC era he is pushing india back to stone age.

 

[Kaniska]

The poll and the OP are two different things.


I wish I had not clicked at the poll first. But then I am one of those "click first think later" kind of guy.


But the OP is just bunch of cr@p meant to flame Hindutva chauvinism.




Biggest threat to India is not Islamist terrorism but maoist terror from Left and Hindutvadi terror from the right.



Swarajya, is the piece of $hit rag of a paper not too different from the Qaida and IS videos.

There is nothing called Hindu terror, honestly...this is just an media creation by India media..But yes, caste system in Hindu system is a challenge as well as creation of an Indian version of Muslim culture that does not just correlate with Arab people and their interest is the need of the hour for india and that will be the toughest task in hand for our society and nation..

 

[HeadHunter]

Saif Ali Khan's statement is his 'personal' opinion and doesn't apply to any one else.

He is an actor who should stop pretending to be an authority over Islam followed by Hindu cheer leaders. Just because he's a known Muslim face doesn't mean what he has to say represents the opinion of Muslims.

Yea it,s funny when a adulterer ,womanizer and drinker actor talks about islam. How ironic

 

[Kaniska]

There is nothing called Hindu terror, honestly...this is just an media creation by India media..But yes, caste system in Hindu system is a challenge as well as creation of an Indian version of Muslim culture that does not just correlate with Arab people and their interest is the need of the hour for india and that will be the toughest task in hand for our society and nation..

Do not worry...People mandated Modi not to take India back to 1000 years...rather to lead India to a developed nation....If Modi does not follow the mandate, he will be out next election..This is the beauty of the democracy in India...

 

[ranjeet]

Sir! I have told this before this is going to happen if modi and RSS comes to power. Now modi is going to do something like what zia ul haq did to Pakistan .Mixing Backward religious extremism of any kind with nationalism has horrible consequences .
Yes modi may be good for your economy but by forcing old hindu beliefs from 10,000 BC era he is pushing india back to stone age.

Modi is a smart cat .. unlike that rabid jihadi Zia. Plus no matter how back Hinduism sounds to you but it isn't as violent as what Zia preached in Pakistan. Other than that keep living in your own illusions.

 

[jbond197]

Yea it,s funny when a adulterer ,womanizer and drinker actor talks about islam. How ironic

That's why only ISIS, the avid followers of Islam, or the Mullahs should be listened to.right??

 

[ranjeet]

That's why only ISIS, the avid followers of Islam, or the Mullahs should be listened to.right??

If this is the criteria to discredit a Muslim I am sure there would be any Muslim left on this forum from Pakistan beside @Zarvan.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Saif Ali Khan, the Bollywood superstar, had the courage to admit yesterday in an interview that “Islam is unpopular today.” What is more, he went a step further and actually said that for a “modernized Islam” to take root, and because the Quran is God’s word and cannot be challenged, “someone will have to say that God has spoken to them and these rules (of the Quran) no longer apply and it’s okay do certain things which were not allowed earlier.”

It is interesting that a mainstream voice in the Indian Muslim world is at least acknowledging that there is a problem with his religion without harping back to pet causal theories like Palestine, Kashmir and so on. Hopefully, more and more thought leadership from within the Islamic universe will unconditionally accept that there are some fundamental issues with the Muslim religion and try to modernize it. Otherwise this looks like a losing battle indeed.

Yesterday, the Institute of Economics and Peace (IEP) released Global Terrorism Index 2014, a depressing report which demonstrated that not only had terrorism become a global phenomenon but also that there was a whopping 61% increase in the number of people killed in terror incidents in 2013 as compared to 2012. There were more than 10,000 recorded terrorist events across 161 countries which resulted in the loss of 17,958 lives!

The most important finding of GTI is that 82% of all terrorism occurred in just five countries of the world—Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria and Syria. What is the common thread binding these five nations? Islam. Terrorism in 2013 was dominated by four terror organizations which were responsible for 66% of all the global terrorist activities—ISIL, Boko Haram, Al Qaida and Taliban. What is the common thread binding all these four organizations? Islam.

How long can we let the world bleed like this? We are well past the time for political correctness and we are now in a battleground where we have to catch the bull by the horn and steer the world to safety. It is time indeed for the global community to have a “zero tolerance” policy towards terrorism of all genres. What is even more important is that voices from within the Muslim world start to protest vehemently against the wahhabization of their religion.

It comes as no surprise that after those five terror theatres, the 6th nation in this list of Global Terrorism Index 2014 happens to be India. Shameful indeed that we are being clubbed together with such a dubious list of countries that are scorching the world in the 21st century. This is the gift that we have received from the secular vote bank politics of the last six decades.

The GTI is an index from 0 to 10, with 10 being awarded to the country most hit by terrorism, and other countries being judged relative to this score, based on four parameters with different weights attached to them: total number of terrorist incidents in a given year; number of fatalities; number of injuries caused by terrorists; and a measure of the total property damage. The lingering efect terrorist attacks have on a society in terms of fear and subsequent security response is also taken into consideration.

India scores 7.86 on this index (Iraq, the emperor of the world’s terror scene, being 10). You can read the full report here.

That 7.86 looks scary! But that’s hardly the scariest part, not by a long shot. Because the GTI uses a logarithmic scale; so when Iraq scores 10, and India score 7.86, it does not mean that India is 78.6% as terrorism-affected as Iraq. 6,362 people were killed in Iraq, while India saw 404 deaths. India saw 2.2% of all terrorism-related deaths in 2013, compared to Iraq’s 35.4%.

These are the scarier parts.

The GTI report tells us that some 43 different terrorist groups divided into three distinct divisions of Islamists, Separatists and Communists have been the main culprits in India.

Apart from Islamic terrorism, nearly half of all terror-related casualties in India in 2013 (192 out of 404) have been on account of Maoist violence. So India suffers from a double whammy from Islam as well as Communists, or in extension from both “secularism polity” and also from the “Left”. Yet, even a cursory glance on the media narrative throughout 2013 would paint a picture completely different.

And…

Terrorism increased by 70 per cent in India from 2012 to 2013.

The number of attacks also increased, with 55 more attacks in 2013 than 2012.

In 2013, three Islamist groups were responsible for around 15 per cent of deaths. This includes Hizbul Mujahideen, an Islamist group allegedly based in Pakistan with a membership of around 15,000. This group was the only group in India to use suicide tactics in 2013.

And, most importantly, India is 6th in the world, and all the five countries above us are acknowledged by everyone in the world as basket cases!

Yet, the dominant editorial and media narrative of 2013 was about the dangers for India due to the ascendancy of “fringe right wing Hindu” groups. How could all our collective media/thought leadership fail us so easily? How could the entire Dilli-based editorial class miss the elephant in the room?

Reports such as the GTI are a wake-up call for the Indian media to open their eyes and see the truth of a global terror phenomenon without wearing their ideological glasses. It also gives us an indication about the battle that our new prime minister has to wage in order to prevent further descent of India into the global cesspool of terrorism from its current No 6 position.


Is Terrorism Really Dead? | Swarajya
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Thank you Chacha420

@Indrani @Sidak @jha @JanjaWeed @arp2041 @wolfschanzze @SarthakGanguly @levina and others

Please take part in the Poll

Secularism is nothing but a negotiable commodity in India. It has nothing to do with one's core ideology, belief or principle. In India atleast it's commodity which can be used & abused at will by the so called guardians of Secularism. Let me quote two simple examples... Till last year Rahul Narvekar was preaching about upholding Hindu Nationalism & how the so called Secularists are ruining the Nation with their politics of appeasement... & one fine day his entire ideology turned upside down, within 24 hrs, guy starts preaching entirely opposite to what he used to preach in his whole life.

& watch this... how a secular becomes communal the moment he steps on other secular's foot!
Now, Owaisi BJP agent for Pawar | Watch the video - Yahoo India

this is how feeble & abusive this so called secularism is in India!

 

[Levina]

Some people have serious misconception about secularism. First of all, it is a state concept. No individual can be secular or non secular. Only a state can be secular or otherwise. India's constitution clearly separates religion from the state affairs and gives everyone equal freedom to practice their religion. So India is a secular country by design and will remain secular. Only a constitutional amendment can change the current status but the probability of that happening is basically zero.

jaunty there's a slight problem that our politicians do not separate state and religion.They conduct hawans before a dam is constructed and many such religious activities.This is where things become nebulous for the Indian populace.
And glad to see so many supporters of secularism here.

 

[ranjeet]

jaunty there's a slight problem that our politicians do not separate state and religion.They conduct hawans before a dam is constructed and many such religious activities.This is where things become nebulous for the Indian populace.
And glad to see so many supporters of secularism here.

You (as in secular people here) have to understand that whenever I speak against secularism in india it's about how things were in india before Modi. (although not much has changed since he came to power). It was never my intention or purpose to pick on anyone just because they belonged to a certain state.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Secularism is nothing but a negotiable commodity in India. It has nothing to do with one's core ideology, belief or principle. In India atleast it's commodity which can be used & abused at will by the so called guardians of Secularism. Let me quote two simple examples... Till last year Rahul Narvekar was preaching about upholding Hindu Nationalism & how the so called Secularists are ruining the Nation with their politics of appeasement... & one fine day his entire ideology turned upside down, within 24 hrs, guy starts preaching entirely opposite to what he used to preach in his whole life.

& watch this... how a secular becomes communal the moment he steps on other secular's foot!
Now, Owaisi BJP agent for Pawar | Watch the video - Yahoo India

this is how feeble & abusive this so called secularism is in India!

worth the weight in gold.

 

[Levina]

You (as in secular people here) have to understand that whenever I speak against secularism in india it's about how things were in india before Modi. (although not much has changed since he came to power). It was never my intention or purpose to pick on anyone just because they belonged to a certain state.

okay naa...
You told me that yesterday and I thought you'd forgotten about it.
You've misconstrued my post most prolly...did you think I was aiming some indirect taunts at you??
I'm sorry but that was not my intention.