What's new

Secularism in Pakistan-A solution to Pakistan's religious problems?

haviZsultan

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
9,045
Reaction score
36
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Arab Emirates
Why do we fear Secularism?

Many Pakistanis have a built in aversion towards the word secularism while taking an excessive pride in the Islamic Republic attached to Pakistan’s name. Despite the fact that many Pakistanis fail to follow the tenets of Islam and the word Islamic Republic makes a mockery of the meaning it remains a source of excessive pride. Scholars claim that today the country is very far from Islam because very few people in Pakistan really follow the tenets of Islam. However very few of them can answer the question whether it worthwhile to have an “Islamic Republic” only in name. However the real question is do we really have anything to fear from Secularism in the first place?

According to its dictionary meaning Secularism refers to the equal treatment of each and every religious group within the Nation and to the idea that religion should have a smaller role in politics and decision making because when it has too large a role people spend their time over their own separate interpretations of religion rather than Nation building and the tasks at hand.


Many Muslims in Pakistan fear secularism because they have a perverse idea of the concept fearing Islam will be diminished with Secularism. This is completely untrue. Pakistan’s Islamic identity will not be lost with a Secular system.


Will Secularism decrease Islam’s value in Pakistan?


Many Pakistanis continually fear that secularism will decrease Islam's value or worse will eliminate Islam from Pakistan.


The fact is no one is pushing Islam away and with 95% of the population of Pakistan being proud and extremely pious Muslims for the most part it is impossible to even try. Islam will still be practiced by the majority of people as it is being practiced today without any hindrance whatsoever. The only difference perhaps will be that religion will be a personal matter. A person who does not follow Islam devotedly or a follower of a different religion or a sect of Islam will not be persecuted for having his own separate beliefs.


If seen in such a light Secularism is nothing to be feared. We can be proud Muslims and defend Islam as much or even more with a secular constitution as we can by labelling a country ruled by very corrupt people with barely any link to Islam an “Islamic Republic”. An Islamic Republic where the rulers themselves have no link to Islam and others often use religion as a tool to fulfill their personal interests.

The fact is that a country that calls itself an Islamic Republic should have a constitution, laws (that are implemented instead of being cleared by people who can pay bribes), rules and regulations based on the tenets of Islam. A country lacking the Islamic economic and judicial system based on the teachings of the Prophet can't be an Islamic Republic. It's not that Pakistanis haven't tried. If proof is needed one needs to look at Zia's Islamicization. Pakistanis have tried to impose Islam in letter and spirit for 60 years and failed. It's more than time we revised our direction.


The tenets of Islam support Secularism & harmony

“To you be your Faith, and to me mine.”
Ayat 109:6​


During the rule of Ali Ibn Abi Talib the fourth Caliph of Islam a Jew stole a shield that belonged to the Caliph and claimed that it was his. He was brought to the court of Ali to settle the dispute. However due to lack of proof and according to Islamic law the Jew was allowed to keep the shield as Hazrat Ali could not prove he owned the shield. This was a verdict going against a Muslim Caliph in his own court. However Hazrat Ali accepted the decision calmly. On the other hand the Jew was dumbfounded as he had indeed stolen the shield. He was quick to embrace Islam and declared that he had lied in front of the entire court.


This was one example of how Islam spread to become one of the largest religions in the World and won hearts and minds. It was due to the insight and tolerance our ancestors had that we got to where we are, that Cordova and Baghdad became centres of learning and Islam spread from the corners of Spain to the boundaries of the far east.


Unfortunately many people in Pakistan do not understand that human rights and the equal treatment of all individuals in the country is more important in Islam rather than a notion of Islamic pride and superiority where labelling a country an “Islamic Republic” is deemed necessary. This pride comes from a past that our ancestors built with policies that we fail to understand today.


The Quaid E Azams Principles


“In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Quaid E Azam, February 1948


The above quote is the greatest proof that Quaid E Azam did not want a state that was built solely on the basis of religion. Unfortunately since his death the constitution has been changed to suit every new leader that came and the title “Islamic Republic,” untrue it may be has been added along with many laws that are completely out of line with Quaid E Azam's original ideas for Pakistan. If we look closely at many of his speeches we will notice Quaid E Azam was a staunch supporter of secularism with an added focus on Islamic thought and ideology. Therefore until he was alive the Islamic Republic was never attached to the countries name. That happened when Ayub Khan came into power.


Other speeches by Quaid E Azam that clearly supported the message of peace, harmony and equality between all groups whether they are ethnic or religious are stated below.


‘We are starting with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. No matter what is his colour, caste or creed is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations….”

“In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims – not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

“[If you] work together in a spirit that everyone of you no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make.”
11 August 1947


“The tenets of Islam enjoin on every Musalman to give protection to his neighbours and to the Minorities regardless of caste and creed. We must make it a matter of our honor and prestige to create sense of security amongst them.”
30th October 1947

Clearly Quaid E Azam understood that a Nation could not be built until differences were eliminated and people saw themselves as equal members of a single society regardless of faith or ethnicity.


Perhaps if that spirit was alive today Pakistan would not be afflicted with religious issues and infighting between Shia-Sunni, Barelvi-Deobandi, Wahabi-Mainstream Muslim, and the principles of personal freedom would have given way to building a Nation that was the most glorious one in history. Unfortunately this destiny still awaits the Pakistani race which dreams for justice and equality. Many conservatives continuously deny Quaid E Azam wanted a secular country believing that such a concept is against Islam when it is not. Perhaps they fear for their own interests but Quaid E Azam did indeed want a Nation that was Secular or Socialist and gave equal opportunity to all inhabitants.


People try to deny this but the fact is, being Muslims this is not something for us to be ashamed of but something glorious. That a leader who did so much for Muslims, gave them a new homeland and independence, still understood the morals of our ancestors because of whom Islam spread is truly remarkable.


Issues caused by the misinterpretation of Islamic Law & resources used to contain them​


The fact that laws created to safeguard Islam are being used for the benefit and self interest of bad people does not do anything great for the image of Islam. A clear example is the blasphemy law, a law that makes an insult to Islam, the Prophet or the Quran illegal and punishable by death. This law has been used against minorities for a long time. However Muslims have fallen victims to this law as well.


An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent.


Another example was the framing of Akhtar Hammed Khan, an 81 year old writer and sociologist by business interests and authorities unwilling to let his development work take place in Orangi, Karachi. He had launched a development project on the behalf of the people of Orangi. His project offering real estate loans on good terms and work to improve the condition of women through education, and access to employment and family planning was not well liked by these authorities. Thus they decided to book him on false charges with the police under the blasphemy laws. He was later released due to inadequate evidence but the case proves how the law is being used to settle personal scores and disputes.


Minorities have many such stories to share as 60% of all victims who are framed under this law are Non Muslims. The law has become a tool for fanatics, murderers and people seeking to settle personal scores yet the law still hasn’t been repealed due to the fact that militants have some influence on governance. Land disputes or personal quarrels are by far the main reason for people to be booked under this law.


Another such law is the Hudood Ordinance where in a case of Rape four witnesses are required to confirm that a rape has taken place. This is practically impossible. However the woman who complains that a rape has taken place is often booked for being with another man while the culprits of the rape run free.


Therefore the Hudood Law became a tool in the hands of rapists and today any woman can be raped. But when she goes to the police to get justice the Hudood Law can be used to frame her, because by claiming that she has been raped she also admits that she has been with another man and committed Zinah. Some figures claim that in the year 1979 there were only 70 women in Pakistani jails. A decade later, in 1988, this figure had risen to 6000 and over 80% of the women in prison were there because of these laws. It is said many more women do not even report rapes in fear of being persecuted due to this law.


Is Pakistan really Islamic?
Better to have a Secular constitution than Islam only in name​


There is no doubt that our leaders found us a land that was a safe haven for Muslims and gave us freedom to make our own decisions without the fear of suffering biased treatment for the faith we followed. However the question today is how much Islam is being followed in the country?

For instance the Quran states:

“Keep yourselves away from bribes because it is kufr and one who receives them will never smell the scent of paradise”.​

The fact is in Pakistan taking and giving bribes is so common that even a noble person can hardly live without paying one. Some honourable folk still struggle on but their lives are much more difficult. If a person has money it is a possibility he has given or taken a bribe at least once. Unfortunately the entire bureaucracy is at the forefront of this rot. Justice is sold and witnesses can be bought.


On the other hand while drinking is not allowed and a license is required in order to drink in Pakistan, people who want to drink do so with impunity and with no fear of being punished. The law is not even being implemented while if a drunkard happens to get caught a simple bribe wins back the persons freedom. On the other hand while adultery is considered a punishable law under the constitution it is practiced by many people in the country without any fear of punishment. The same goes for many other laws. It is virtually impossible to implement these laws and it costs resources to do so.


The fact is many laws related to Islam exist in Pakistan but they are there only in name. They are either being misused by people for their own interests or they are not implemented and people who commit heinous crimes are allowed to go free because of them, without any fear of punishment while the innocent are framed. Particularly the law simply does not apply to government officials who can flout any rule because of their influence and power.


The real question for Pakistan today is whether it is sensible to have a false, broken and corrupt “Islamic Republic” in name or it is better to have a secular constitution that guarantees freedom to everyone and ensures that there are no vaguely addressed laws that make a mockery of our Religion and are misused for the benefit of a few criminals.

Why do we fear secularism (comment & rate)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Benefits of Secularism for Pakistan (In point Format)

In recent days I was having a very constructive debate with a very knowledgeable person about the benefits of Secularism for a society such as Pakistan, where people are judged by how much or how little people follow their religion. Here imposing ones brand of Islam on the other is common and I argued for Secularism while this person argued for the intricacies of Islamic law.


I have already written an article on secularism and will not go into detail but here I will present the argument for secularism in points compared to the disadvantages of a poorly functioning "Islamic Republic" which may turn out to be very useful.

Problems with a dysfunctional "Islamic Republic"

Misuse of laws meant to safeguard Islam for the personal interests of people-ie the Blasphemy law to frame innocent Muslims, Christians and Hindus on false charges of blasphemy in order to settle disputes.


{Qoute} An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent. {Qoute}

No laws for the rich and powerful. All laws apply for the weak. For example a rich man can drink or do whatever he wants despite not being allowed to do so in his religion, without any fear... even rape women without ever being punished but a poor man is always punished. Is this justice?

{QUOTE}Those before you went astray, for, when one of the committed a crime and he was a great man, they would not punish him, and when he was a poor man they would execute the punishment (Bu: 86:12){QUOTE}

Differences in the belief of Islam-which Islam do we want. What do we do if some factions do not agree with the Islam we are currently following? Should it be Wahabism, Sufism, Deobandi or Hanafi Islam? How will we deal with differing interpretations which will cause more and more confusion?


When religion gets infused into society, fanaticism and terrorism are only by-products. This is why religion should be a personal matter kept to a person's house and his place of worship. It should never be infused into governance and the state.



Muslims killing Muslims. The divide caused by the differences in our beliefs has caused a vast chasm among the Muslims. This chasm is so great that it is now leading to us killing each other. Not a day passes in Pakistan when a Muslim is not killed by another Muslim. The Taliban, Jundullah, Sipah E Sahaba, Lashker E Janghvi, Sipah E Mohammad... what else? In distant Norway there's Anders Behring Breivik. Infusing religion into politics has only led to death and destruction.



People begin using the excuse of religion to increase their power and authority. For example there are over 30 Taliban commanders in the tribal belts each vying for power and influence. In the end the struggle for Islam becomes a cruel struggle for power and influence.


When a country decides to judge its people by how much or how little they follow their religion it fails to focus on other important things such as science, education, economy and growth. Ignoring these sectors has often led to decline in Islamic societies. It is causing Pakistan to decline today with the GDP growth rate that is incapable of creating new jobs for a rising population.


Islamist thought can only cause gradual factionalism and division as people get divided into sects and various groups while each religious group crowds to his or her own religious group for protection decreasing people to people contact between sects and religions. For example the blasphemy laws in Pakistan. A man was shot for questioning a man-made law that has led to the murder of innocent muslims, christians and hindus alike on false charges of blasphemy. The law simply cannot be erased but it can only get worse because of Islamist influence who refuse to allow any changes to the law. What is next? Declaring all Hindus Kaffir and declaring them wajib ul qatil?


Despite trying to impose Islam for over 60 years Pakistan has miserably failed. Today the rich can get away with any crime. Bribes are taken and given with impunity and justice can be sold. Pakistan has failed to impose Islam in every single aspect. Pakistanis have free access to any website, the younger generation can have intercourse when it likes with streets such as Napier in Karachi and Heera Mandi in Lahore. Drinks are easily available. No law in reality has been imposed. Pakistan is a broke, failed Islamic Republic in every sense of the word. Isn't it better to stop trying to impose religion on everyone now and just give up?


More than a Billion Muslims live in abject poverty. Has having an "Islamic Republic" helped them in any way? Is it more important to give the poor man food and shelter rather than telling him how to behave in his daily life?

Benefits of Secularism.

By allowing freedom and giving each man his dignity we give everyone their rights. A person has the right to believe what he or she wishes and can stand for whatever he believes in. Islam itself allows us this freedom:


{QUOTE}"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)] {QUOTE}​

Secularism will not degrade Islam but will instead allow it to flourish as secularism means the equal treatment of each and every religion. By equally treating Muslims we do away with biases a non religious or non-muslim resident would suffer yet we do not discriminate against the Muslims.

Secularism will do away with the problems in an Islamist system relating to which 'Islam' to impose when Muslims are divided into so many various sects and groups each believing something different. Here everyone will be equal.

Secularism if widely accepted by the Nation, will prevent commanders from using religion for their own gains and power. When the people will make religion a personal matter religious violence is sure to decline, allowing us to create a tolerant Nation. Something we currently lack.

Secularism will actually cause the growth of Islam and its evolution. In the past our rulers won the respect of minorities and their people and as a result Islam spread far and wide. Today we have forgotten the very actions of these leaders.

{Qoute}Taxation in the Caliphate is on excess wealth and not income, and there are no regressive taxes like VAT. The only taxes on companies are the agricultural land taxes (ushur and kharaj) that are a percentage of the agricultural produce or the land value. Non-agricultural companies do not pay this. Muslim owned companies will also pay the alms tax (zakat), but non-Muslim companies are exempt from this.

Non-Muslim men must pay a nominal tax called Jizya that gives them full citizenship rights, exempting them from National Service and taxes specific to Muslims such as zakat . Jizya is means tested and there are different bands for different levels of wealth. Caliph Omar imposed three bands for the Jizya tax - 4 dinars (£108) for the rich, 2 dinars (£54) for the middle class and 1 dinar (£27) for the poor. The Jizya tax rate is much lower than that of zakat, therefore the tax burden of non-Muslims is lower than that of Muslims in the Caliphate. {QUOTE}



Secularism will allow us to concentrate on bigger and better things. Like science, technology, culture and education which are much needed in Muslim states. Secularism has its obvious benefits because when religion is out of the equation we are not stuck on questions like the height of the shalwar.


Today Muslims are trying to kill each other and are at each others throats. Isn't anything better than Muslims blowing Muslims up? Shouldn't we try another system, something that actually works now? According to stats around 1 Million or more Muslims were killed (Most were killed by Muslims themselves) in the past 10 years. Isn't it time to reflect and judge whether the Islamist's system is actually working for us?


Secularism does not eliminate Islam or destroy it in anyway. People believing Islam cannot thrive under a secular system must ask the same question of 14 Million Muslims living in Europe. Secularism offers equality to everyone. This is the basic ideal of Secularism.

Benefits of Secularism in points (Rate or comment)
 
Secularism was the solution to Christianity's death grip on Europe.
It was a European solution to a European problem.

We Muslims don't have the same problem as Europe, our problems are more to do with Education and leadership.

Applying a European solution to a Muslim problem is like trying to put a square block in a round hole.
No matter how much people tell you that you are doing a good job, you will ultimately fail.
 
Secularism is Lie ... it never Works the Majority always has to Pay more than others...

Stick to ur Cultural Roots which is better for any country... in case of Pakistan they should Stick to there More tolerant Version of Subcontinent Islam which there ancestors preached Rather than the Wahabbi Version ... Stop all the Saudi Funded Madrassas & remove the Arab roots claiming Text books... by this u can be a Much more tolerant Islamic Country far better than what Secularism can offer...
 
in case of Pakistan they should Stick to there More tolerant Version of Subcontinent Islam which there ancestors preached Rather than the Wahabbi Version ...

You don't even know what Wahhabism is buddy, best if you don't make comments on it.
Intolerance? Give me a break..
 
Secularism is Lie ... it never Works the Majority always has to Pay more than others...

Stick to ur Cultural Roots which is better for any country... in case of Pakistan they should Stick to there More tolerant Version of Subcontinent Islam which there ancestors preached Rather than the Wahabbi Version ... Stop all the Saudi Funded Madrassas & remove the Arab roots claiming Text books... by this u can be a Much more tolerant Islamic Country far better than what Secularism can offer...

What do you mean secularism is a lie, do you mean it is impossible to implement?
 
Secularism was the solution to Christianity's death grip on Europe.
It was a European solution to a European problem.

We Muslims don't have the same problem as Europe, our problems are more to do with Education and leadership.

Applying a European solution to a Muslim problem is like trying to put a square block in a round hole.
No matter how much people tell you that you are doing a good job, you will ultimately fail.

Yes, people like you will support secularism when you live in Europe otherwise secularism is evil because minority always deserve second class status.

When Swiss banned minarets it was hilarious to see on TV the way Mullahs talking about preserving secular values. Height of hypocrisy.
 
What do you mean secularism is a lie, do you mean it is impossible to implement?
ya very much ... In secularism the Majority always has to give away more... like whats is happening in India where temples r Ransacked on daily basis ... in secularism the Minority Becomes Fanatics like in UK, & few Eur countries ... But India is a Classic Example That Secularism is $hit...
 
this is one of the best post. the TS has given lot of illustration and example to show how secularism is not against islam.


secularism not only for different religion but different sect as well. secularism means seperate religion and state.
 
I have been trying to debate this for a long time. As you may notice if you go to the site both those articles have been written by me and are supposed to be a solution to Pakistan's multidimensional religious problems.

In Pakistan we have continuously been taught about the superiority of Islam, not just that, but a specific version of Islam that comes straight from Wahabi textbooks which is why it is just difficult if not impossible for the Pakistani mind, for my own people to accept that it was secularism that won them Spain and led them to Constantinople. We won the people over by giving them such dignity and respect and such honor that they wanted to come to Islam.

Ireland adopted secularism and their gdp per capita skyrocketed.

Turkey applied it and they have no problem with religious hatred.

Plus anything should be better than Muslim killing Muslim in the name of religion. When u impose religion its impossible to judge which is the right version which you want to impose. Will it be wahabism, will it be deobandi Islam, or something else and what if we introduce one interpretation of Islam that simply does go down with another group which interprets Islam differently.

Imposing religion is a costly and difficult process and it is about time the attention of Pakistanis changes from the length of the others shalwar to the betterment, progress and prosperity of our people, under the guiding principles of our ancestors.

Secularism is not an Anti-Islamic concept. We have been taught to look at things this way but secularism can benefit Pakistan greatly... if the majority of people were to accept its concepts.
 
Secularize Pakistan when the house of secularism UK has started the distribution of Holy Bibles in all schools. Very intelligent !
 
Secularize Pakistan when the house of secularism UK has started the distribution of Holy Bibles in all schools. Very intelligent !

Err lol? How does the UK relate to the secularisation of Pakistan? :what:

As for the OP, yes secularisation is the way forward. Not a system based on religious laws (and that too only of one religion ignoring all others) but secularisation should only be enforced when the population wants it. The key to that is education, economic growth, particularly jobs and education for women so that men don't dictate what women can or can't do.

Time is another factor. If you wait about 50 or so years, there should be a much larger secular population in Pakistan as is the growing trend around the world (except in Israel where the fundamentalist hasidic Jews are multiplying like rabbits).
 
Err lol? How does the UK relate to the secularisation of Pakistan? :what:

As for the OP, yes secularisation is the way forward. Not a system based on religious laws (and that too only of one religion ignoring all others) but secularisation should only be enforced when the population wants it. The key to that is education, economic growth, particularly jobs and education for women so that men don't dictate what women can or can't do.

Time is another factor. If you wait about 50 or so years, there should be a much larger secular population in Pakistan as is the growing trend around the world (except in Israel where the fundamentalist hasidic Jews are multiplying like rabbits).

I have been promoting exactly what your comment states.

Nothing will happen without the will of the people. Until the people want it nothing can happen and i am trying to bring people to this cause.

For anything to take place the people of Pakistan will have to accept secularism as a concept that can benefit Pakistan. That can lead them out of religious violence and killing in the name of religion. What is more horrific than a Muslim killing a Muslim in the name of his religion. Is this what our religion preaches? Is this why we got freedom. I would have prefer dying to hindu mobs than being killed by Muslims.

For other readers i would like to advise you to think critically. Isn't it time we think of better solutions to our problems. We're going no where. We have introduced a version of Islam where we preach hate for the Hindus. Furthermore where is Islam followed, our young generation is growing on ****** from heera mandi, smuggled beer from India and several other vices even white people can't think off. Claiming that we, an utterly corrupt nation that elects Zardari's and Nawaz Sharif's is Islamic, is utter folly and making a joke of Islam. When u aren't following Islam how can you claim to be a theocratic state.

Its time for some kind of change. The guiding principles of Islam can be maintained in a secular setup as well. Pakistani people have been taught Islam and Secularism are 2 separate paths even though they often converge as proven by the example of the shield.

You might qoute me the ban on headscarves in France, the ban on headscarves in universities in turkey, and ban of minarets but that isn't true secularism as secularism is a concept where each religious group has the right to practice. These societies have deviated from the path of secularism.
 
Err lol? How does the UK relate to the secularisation of Pakistan? :what:

As for the OP, yes secularisation is the way forward. Not a system based on religious laws (and that too only of one religion ignoring all others) but secularisation should only be enforced when the population wants it. The key to that is education, economic growth, particularly jobs and education for women so that men don't dictate what women can or can't do.

Time is another factor. If you wait about 50 or so years, there should be a much larger secular population in Pakistan as is the growing trend around the world (except in Israel where the fundamentalist hasidic Jews are multiplying like rabbits).

Britain is considered to be a "model" for world's oldest secular democracy , there is no country in the world with 100% secular society functioning at its full capacity.

50 Years ? you can wait for 100 more years Pakistan won't have a secular majority and it yes has NOTHING to do with Education yada yada. People make different choices when it comes to their social structure. All liberal fascists in Pakistan have been drumming up this idea of a secular state where majority of them simply have no clue about the roots of secularism itself !


An Islamic society is supposed to be Liberal and tolerant to begin with . I dare you to pull just "one" example of a Muslim country where secularism has been "successfully" implemented and is working at its full functional capacity. If your mind is thinking of Turkey as youre reading this than you need to think again , Turkey with a "century" of Secularism has an "Islamist" party with nearly two thirds majority govt (Only one in Europe right now) in its third term & YES Secularism was "imposed" by an autocratic/authoritative Mustafa Kemal Pasha , not through popular opinion.

Tunisia , Egypt , Syria etc all tried "The golden principles of Secularism" and the result is now riddled in the face of everyone with "Islamists" running parliaments in post revolution "democratic" Egypt , Libya , Tunisia and soon to be in Yamen & Syria.

So if you can give me "One true" example of a single Muslim country with a "functional" secular system put into place by popular vote - i will "convert" into "secularhood".

Regards:
 
Why do we fear Secularism?

Many Pakistanis have a built in aversion towards the word secularism while taking an excessive pride in the Islamic Republic attached to Pakistan’s name. Despite the fact that many Pakistanis fail to follow the tenets of Islam and the word Islamic Republic makes a mockery of the meaning it remains a source of excessive pride. Scholars claim that today the country is very far from Islam because very few people in Pakistan really follow the tenets of Islam. However very few of them can answer the question whether it worthwhile to have an “Islamic Republic” only in name. However the real question is do we really have anything to fear from Secularism in the first place?

According to its dictionary meaning Secularism refers to the equal treatment of each and every religious group within the Nation and to the idea that religion should have a smaller role in politics and decision making because when it has too large a role people spend their time over their own separate interpretations of religion rather than Nation building and the tasks at hand.


Many Muslims in Pakistan fear secularism because they have a perverse idea of the concept fearing Islam will be diminished with Secularism. This is completely untrue. Pakistan’s Islamic identity will not be lost with a Secular system.


Will Secularism decrease Islam’s value in Pakistan?


Many Pakistanis continually fear that secularism will decrease Islam's value or worse will eliminate Islam from Pakistan.


The fact is no one is pushing Islam away and with 95% of the population of Pakistan being proud and extremely pious Muslims for the most part it is impossible to even try. Islam will still be practiced by the majority of people as it is being practiced today without any hindrance whatsoever. The only difference perhaps will be that religion will be a personal matter. A person who does not follow Islam devotedly or a follower of a different religion or a sect of Islam will not be persecuted for having his own separate beliefs.


If seen in such a light Secularism is nothing to be feared. We can be proud Muslims and defend Islam as much or even more with a secular constitution as we can by labelling a country ruled by very corrupt people with barely any link to Islam an “Islamic Republic”. An Islamic Republic where the rulers themselves have no link to Islam and others often use religion as a tool to fulfill their personal interests.

The fact is that a country that calls itself an Islamic Republic should have a constitution, laws (that are implemented instead of being cleared by people who can pay bribes), rules and regulations based on the tenets of Islam. A country lacking the Islamic economic and judicial system based on the teachings of the Prophet can't be an Islamic Republic. It's not that Pakistanis haven't tried. If proof is needed one needs to look at Zia's Islamicization. Pakistanis have tried to impose Islam in letter and spirit for 60 years and failed. It's more than time we revised our direction.


The tenets of Islam support Secularism & harmony

“To you be your Faith, and to me mine.”
Ayat 109:6​


During the rule of Ali Ibn Abi Talib the fourth Caliph of Islam a Jew stole a shield that belonged to the Caliph and claimed that it was his. He was brought to the court of Ali to settle the dispute. However due to lack of proof and according to Islamic law the Jew was allowed to keep the shield as Hazrat Ali could not prove he owned the shield. This was a verdict going against a Muslim Caliph in his own court. However Hazrat Ali accepted the decision calmly. On the other hand the Jew was dumbfounded as he had indeed stolen the shield. He was quick to embrace Islam and declared that he had lied in front of the entire court.


This was one example of how Islam spread to become one of the largest religions in the World and won hearts and minds. It was due to the insight and tolerance our ancestors had that we got to where we are, that Cordova and Baghdad became centres of learning and Islam spread from the corners of Spain to the boundaries of the far east.


Unfortunately many people in Pakistan do not understand that human rights and the equal treatment of all individuals in the country is more important in Islam rather than a notion of Islamic pride and superiority where labelling a country an “Islamic Republic” is deemed necessary. This pride comes from a past that our ancestors built with policies that we fail to understand today.


The Quaid E Azams Principles


“In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Quaid E Azam, February 1948


The above quote is the greatest proof that Quaid E Azam did not want a state that was built solely on the basis of religion. Unfortunately since his death the constitution has been changed to suit every new leader that came and the title “Islamic Republic,” untrue it may be has been added along with many laws that are completely out of line with Quaid E Azam's original ideas for Pakistan. If we look closely at many of his speeches we will notice Quaid E Azam was a staunch supporter of secularism with an added focus on Islamic thought and ideology. Therefore until he was alive the Islamic Republic was never attached to the countries name. That happened when Ayub Khan came into power.


Other speeches by Quaid E Azam that clearly supported the message of peace, harmony and equality between all groups whether they are ethnic or religious are stated below.


‘We are starting with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. No matter what is his colour, caste or creed is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations….”

“In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims – not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

“[If you] work together in a spirit that everyone of you no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make.”
11 August 1947


“The tenets of Islam enjoin on every Musalman to give protection to his neighbours and to the Minorities regardless of caste and creed. We must make it a matter of our honor and prestige to create sense of security amongst them.”
30th October 1947

Clearly Quaid E Azam understood that a Nation could not be built until differences were eliminated and people saw themselves as equal members of a single society regardless of faith or ethnicity.


Perhaps if that spirit was alive today Pakistan would not be afflicted with religious issues and infighting between Shia-Sunni, Barelvi-Deobandi, Wahabi-Mainstream Muslim, and the principles of personal freedom would have given way to building a Nation that was the most glorious one in history. Unfortunately this destiny still awaits the Pakistani race which dreams for justice and equality. Many conservatives continuously deny Quaid E Azam wanted a secular country believing that such a concept is against Islam when it is not. Perhaps they fear for their own interests but Quaid E Azam did indeed want a Nation that was Secular or Socialist and gave equal opportunity to all inhabitants.


People try to deny this but the fact is, being Muslims this is not something for us to be ashamed of but something glorious. That a leader who did so much for Muslims, gave them a new homeland and independence, still understood the morals of our ancestors because of whom Islam spread is truly remarkable.


Issues caused by the misinterpretation of Islamic Law & resources used to contain them​


The fact that laws created to safeguard Islam are being used for the benefit and self interest of bad people does not do anything great for the image of Islam. A clear example is the blasphemy law, a law that makes an insult to Islam, the Prophet or the Quran illegal and punishable by death. This law has been used against minorities for a long time. However Muslims have fallen victims to this law as well.


An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent.


Another example was the framing of Akhtar Hammed Khan, an 81 year old writer and sociologist by business interests and authorities unwilling to let his development work take place in Orangi, Karachi. He had launched a development project on the behalf of the people of Orangi. His project offering real estate loans on good terms and work to improve the condition of women through education, and access to employment and family planning was not well liked by these authorities. Thus they decided to book him on false charges with the police under the blasphemy laws. He was later released due to inadequate evidence but the case proves how the law is being used to settle personal scores and disputes.


Minorities have many such stories to share as 60% of all victims who are framed under this law are Non Muslims. The law has become a tool for fanatics, murderers and people seeking to settle personal scores yet the law still hasn’t been repealed due to the fact that militants have some influence on governance. Land disputes or personal quarrels are by far the main reason for people to be booked under this law.


Another such law is the Hudood Ordinance where in a case of Rape four witnesses are required to confirm that a rape has taken place. This is practically impossible. However the woman who complains that a rape has taken place is often booked for being with another man while the culprits of the rape run free.


Therefore the Hudood Law became a tool in the hands of rapists and today any woman can be raped. But when she goes to the police to get justice the Hudood Law can be used to frame her, because by claiming that she has been raped she also admits that she has been with another man and committed Zinah. Some figures claim that in the year 1979 there were only 70 women in Pakistani jails. A decade later, in 1988, this figure had risen to 6000 and over 80% of the women in prison were there because of these laws. It is said many more women do not even report rapes in fear of being persecuted due to this law.


Is Pakistan really Islamic?
Better to have a Secular constitution than Islam only in name​


There is no doubt that our leaders found us a land that was a safe haven for Muslims and gave us freedom to make our own decisions without the fear of suffering biased treatment for the faith we followed. However the question today is how much Islam is being followed in the country?

For instance the Quran states:

“Keep yourselves away from bribes because it is kufr and one who receives them will never smell the scent of paradise”.​

The fact is in Pakistan taking and giving bribes is so common that even a noble person can hardly live without paying one. Some honourable folk still struggle on but their lives are much more difficult. If a person has money it is a possibility he has given or taken a bribe at least once. Unfortunately the entire bureaucracy is at the forefront of this rot. Justice is sold and witnesses can be bought.


On the other hand while drinking is not allowed and a license is required in order to drink in Pakistan, people who want to drink do so with impunity and with no fear of being punished. The law is not even being implemented while if a drunkard happens to get caught a simple bribe wins back the persons freedom. On the other hand while adultery is considered a punishable law under the constitution it is practiced by many people in the country without any fear of punishment. The same goes for many other laws. It is virtually impossible to implement these laws and it costs resources to do so.


The fact is many laws related to Islam exist in Pakistan but they are there only in name. They are either being misused by people for their own interests or they are not implemented and people who commit heinous crimes are allowed to go free because of them, without any fear of punishment while the innocent are framed. Particularly the law simply does not apply to government officials who can flout any rule because of their influence and power.


The real question for Pakistan today is whether it is sensible to have a false, broken and corrupt “Islamic Republic” in name or it is better to have a secular constitution that guarantees freedom to everyone and ensures that there are no vaguely addressed laws that make a mockery of our Religion and are misused for the benefit of a few criminals.

Why do we fear secularism (comment & rate)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Benefits of Secularism for Pakistan (In point Format)

In recent days I was having a very constructive debate with a very knowledgeable person about the benefits of Secularism for a society such as Pakistan, where people are judged by how much or how little people follow their religion. Here imposing ones brand of Islam on the other is common and I argued for Secularism while this person argued for the intricacies of Islamic law.


I have already written an article on secularism and will not go into detail but here I will present the argument for secularism in points compared to the disadvantages of a poorly functioning "Islamic Republic" which may turn out to be very useful.

Problems with a dysfunctional "Islamic Republic"

Misuse of laws meant to safeguard Islam for the personal interests of people-ie the Blasphemy law to frame innocent Muslims, Christians and Hindus on false charges of blasphemy in order to settle disputes.


{Qoute} An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent. {Qoute}

No laws for the rich and powerful. All laws apply for the weak. For example a rich man can drink or do whatever he wants despite not being allowed to do so in his religion, without any fear... even rape women without ever being punished but a poor man is always punished. Is this justice?

{QUOTE}Those before you went astray, for, when one of the committed a crime and he was a great man, they would not punish him, and when he was a poor man they would execute the punishment (Bu: 86:12){QUOTE}

Differences in the belief of Islam-which Islam do we want. What do we do if some factions do not agree with the Islam we are currently following? Should it be Wahabism, Sufism, Deobandi or Hanafi Islam? How will we deal with differing interpretations which will cause more and more confusion?


When religion gets infused into society, fanaticism and terrorism are only by-products. This is why religion should be a personal matter kept to a person's house and his place of worship. It should never be infused into governance and the state.



Muslims killing Muslims. The divide caused by the differences in our beliefs has caused a vast chasm among the Muslims. This chasm is so great that it is now leading to us killing each other. Not a day passes in Pakistan when a Muslim is not killed by another Muslim. The Taliban, Jundullah, Sipah E Sahaba, Lashker E Janghvi, Sipah E Mohammad... what else? In distant Norway there's Anders Behring Breivik. Infusing religion into politics has only led to death and destruction.



People begin using the excuse of religion to increase their power and authority. For example there are over 30 Taliban commanders in the tribal belts each vying for power and influence. In the end the struggle for Islam becomes a cruel struggle for power and influence.


When a country decides to judge its people by how much or how little they follow their religion it fails to focus on other important things such as science, education, economy and growth. Ignoring these sectors has often led to decline in Islamic societies. It is causing Pakistan to decline today with the GDP growth rate that is incapable of creating new jobs for a rising population.


Islamist thought can only cause gradual factionalism and division as people get divided into sects and various groups while each religious group crowds to his or her own religious group for protection decreasing people to people contact between sects and religions. For example the blasphemy laws in Pakistan. A man was shot for questioning a man-made law that has led to the murder of innocent muslims, christians and hindus alike on false charges of blasphemy. The law simply cannot be erased but it can only get worse because of Islamist influence who refuse to allow any changes to the law. What is next? Declaring all Hindus Kaffir and declaring them wajib ul qatil?


Despite trying to impose Islam for over 60 years Pakistan has miserably failed. Today the rich can get away with any crime. Bribes are taken and given with impunity and justice can be sold. Pakistan has failed to impose Islam in every single aspect. Pakistanis have free access to any website, the younger generation can have intercourse when it likes with streets such as Napier in Karachi and Heera Mandi in Lahore. Drinks are easily available. No law in reality has been imposed. Pakistan is a broke, failed Islamic Republic in every sense of the word. Isn't it better to stop trying to impose religion on everyone now and just give up?


More than a Billion Muslims live in abject poverty. Has having an "Islamic Republic" helped them in any way? Is it more important to give the poor man food and shelter rather than telling him how to behave in his daily life?

Benefits of Secularism.

By allowing freedom and giving each man his dignity we give everyone their rights. A person has the right to believe what he or she wishes and can stand for whatever he believes in. Islam itself allows us this freedom:


{QUOTE}"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)] {QUOTE}​

Secularism will not degrade Islam but will instead allow it to flourish as secularism means the equal treatment of each and every religion. By equally treating Muslims we do away with biases a non religious or non-muslim resident would suffer yet we do not discriminate against the Muslims.

Secularism will do away with the problems in an Islamist system relating to which 'Islam' to impose when Muslims are divided into so many various sects and groups each believing something different. Here everyone will be equal.

Secularism if widely accepted by the Nation, will prevent commanders from using religion for their own gains and power. When the people will make religion a personal matter religious violence is sure to decline, allowing us to create a tolerant Nation. Something we currently lack.

Secularism will actually cause the growth of Islam and its evolution. In the past our rulers won the respect of minorities and their people and as a result Islam spread far and wide. Today we have forgotten the very actions of these leaders.

{Qoute}Taxation in the Caliphate is on excess wealth and not income, and there are no regressive taxes like VAT. The only taxes on companies are the agricultural land taxes (ushur and kharaj) that are a percentage of the agricultural produce or the land value. Non-agricultural companies do not pay this. Muslim owned companies will also pay the alms tax (zakat), but non-Muslim companies are exempt from this.

Non-Muslim men must pay a nominal tax called Jizya that gives them full citizenship rights, exempting them from National Service and taxes specific to Muslims such as zakat . Jizya is means tested and there are different bands for different levels of wealth. Caliph Omar imposed three bands for the Jizya tax - 4 dinars (£108) for the rich, 2 dinars (£54) for the middle class and 1 dinar (£27) for the poor. The Jizya tax rate is much lower than that of zakat, therefore the tax burden of non-Muslims is lower than that of Muslims in the Caliphate. {QUOTE}



Secularism will allow us to concentrate on bigger and better things. Like science, technology, culture and education which are much needed in Muslim states. Secularism has its obvious benefits because when religion is out of the equation we are not stuck on questions like the height of the shalwar.


Today Muslims are trying to kill each other and are at each others throats. Isn't anything better than Muslims blowing Muslims up? Shouldn't we try another system, something that actually works now? According to stats around 1 Million or more Muslims were killed (Most were killed by Muslims themselves) in the past 10 years. Isn't it time to reflect and judge whether the Islamist's system is actually working for us?


Secularism does not eliminate Islam or destroy it in anyway. People believing Islam cannot thrive under a secular system must ask the same question of 14 Million Muslims living in Europe. Secularism offers equality to everyone. This is the basic ideal of Secularism.

Benefits of Secularism in points (Rate or comment)

Secularism is the biggest crap and this idea was given by those cartoons where facing jail for fraud and theft cases and by the Secularism is Kufr and Islam has its own political social and economic system complete system for Humans and best system Secularism will never work in Muslim world it has already failed in majority of Arab world and it will fail in other areas to Muslims have to decide according to Islam
 
Britain is considered to be a "model" for world's oldest secular democracy , there is no country in the world with 100% secular society functioning at its full capacity.

50 Years ? you can wait for 100 more years Pakistan won't have a secular majority and it yes has NOTHING to do with Education yada yada. People make different choices when it comes to their social structure. All liberal fascists in Pakistan have been drumming up this idea of a secular state where majority of them simply have no clue about the roots of secularism itself !


An Islamic society is supposed to be Liberal and tolerant to begin with . I dare you to pull just "one" example of a Muslim country where secularism has been "successfully" implemented and is working at its full functional capacity. If your mind is thinking of Turkey as youre reading this than you need to think again , Turkey with a "century" of Secularism has an "Islamist" party with nearly two thirds majority govt (Only one in Europe right now) in its third term & YES Secularism was "imposed" by an autocratic/authoritative Mustafa Kemal Pasha , not through popular opinion.

Tunisia , Egypt , Syria etc all tried "The golden principles of Secularism" and the result is now riddled in the face of everyone with "Islamists" running parliaments in post revolution "democratic" Egypt , Libya , Tunisia and soon to be in Yamen & Syria.

So if you can give me "One true" example of a single Muslim country with a "functional" secular system put into place by popular vote - i will "convert" into "secularhood".

Regards:

I disagree with your assessment that Turkey isn't a successful Secular state. It is being run much more efficiently than us. Its just that we have been taught that secularism and Islam are two separate paths when they are not. Islam gives us a great amount of liberty and allows us to make decisions freely.

Wahabi influences are what have corrupted our mind along with incorrect education which builds hate for anything other than the version of history we have been taught.

Also even if not done very often before and neither done democratically it does not mean that the concept overall is flawed. For example in many countries where Islam (Wahabi versions) have been implemented there has been violence.

Muslims have been killing muslims with impunity in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Does that mean Islam is flawed? No. It means we are not following the tenets of Islam properly... our forefathers won spain and constantinople with tolerance and secularism. We are forgetting that tolerance which is why we are in such a state. Therefore i must say secularism is not at all flawed.

I would advise you to think of things critically. Are we to continue preaching hate for the other sect and hatred for each other? Is there ever going to be tolerance.

Pakistanis will eventually have to be more open to the concept of secularism. It is an avenue out of the bloodshed and killing we are suffering today. Plus we are so confused we don't even know "which" Islam to implement. Will it be sufism, will it be wahabism... we are divided by branch and spend immense resources on changing a persons qiblah... instead we should concentrate on development. We will automatically advance. I also talked about the laws meant to safeguard Islam but misused for other purposes by crooks and criminals. Plus the rich can always circumvent these laws by paying bribes. About time we make some changes for freedom. And about time we abandon this false pride in being an Islamic Republic. What kind of Islamic Republic are we where no Islam is practiced anyway?
 
Back
Top Bottom