Second Hand F-16's for PAF

[SQ8]

But if that is the case, J10B is clearly the way to go instead of limiting PAF to 4th gen techs, that hardly brings them on par with IAFs upgraded Mirage and Mig 29s.
Unless the US will provide PAF with something like the F16 B60, 2nd hand F16s will only add up numbers, but not quality.

The J-10B is a financial risk, since the aircraft is still undergoing testing and not operational as such.
moreover, a J-10B purchase will come in 5 years... a F-16 purchase comes in 2.
Moreover, the F-16's will be upgraded to AM/BM standard which brings them upto block 52 standard except the integrated ECM and CFT's.
Which are still fairly potent 4++ gen aircraft.

 

[sancho]

The J-10B is a financial risk, since the aircraft is still undergoing testing and not operational as such.
moreover, a J-10B purchase will come in 5 years... a F-16 purchase comes in 2.
Moreover, the F-16's will be upgraded to AM/BM standard which brings them upto block 52 standard except the integrated ECM and CFT's.
Which are still fairly potent 4++ gen aircraft.

Potent, but still only on par with IAFs low end by then and if you want 4. th gen techs in 2 years, why not simply produce or order more JF 17 B1s? These can be upgraded later with further capablities, again more beneficiary for PAF and can be refuelled by PAFs tankers too, which makes them operationally more flexible.

 

[SQ8]

Potent, but still only on par with IAFs low end by then and if you want 4. th gen techs in 2 years, why not simply produce or order more JF 17 B1s? These can be upgraded later with further capablities, again more beneficiary for PAF and can be refuelled by PAFs tankers too, which makes them operationally more flexible.

Operational loads, the F-16 can carry more and is more suitable as a bomb truck as well.
The F-16 may be secondhand.. but to consider them irrelevant based on a an 'on par' analysis would be disastrous

 

[MilSpec]

Faster integration..
The F-16's are already inducted into the PAF, means the training regimen, logistics etc is all in place.
Also, the F-16 has a different niche when compared to the JF-17 as its more oriented as a multi-role striker suited for OCA ops while the JF-17 would be better suited to take on the air defence role first and then BAI, CAS and so on .

The question is not of insecurity, its the same as of the IAF's need to order massive numbers of MKI's MMRCAs etc.
The PAF does not want numerical parity, it wants technological parity.. and many of the older mirages and F-7's now need a better aircraft to replace them.. the JF-17 is coming, but not quick enough.

Faster integration at the cost of airframe life (if I am not mistaken), is it a good tradeoff. From what I have heard here there is also disparity between the life cycle of the air frame and main landing gear units of f16A/B which makes life difficult after half of it's service life.

Eventually PAF will have to retire these 80's f16's and go in with the fc20's, agreed will require longer integration time, but isn't this the best time when the borders are relatively quieter to do so?

The only big advantage this brings to PAF is instant force increase, these planes (20-30) are already built and can be delivered within a year (including servicing and M-checks), whereas if mfg'ed new, only 10-12 FC20's can come in every year, at best.

 

[TOPGUN]

Let PAF do what it's doing because it knows what it's doing trust me on that... second we are not in a compare /per game with anyone specially IAF to our indian friends stop comparing all the time you have your own needs and we have ours . Our need is to defend our skies and thats it simply we know how to do that very well . Given time ,funds projects,more training,man power and newer aircraft and upgrading of older ones i assure everyone and anyone PAF will be one deadly force to mess with in the coming years so sleep tight and stop worrying about PAF.

 

[Pfpilot]

It is a matter of want vs. need. The PAF urgently requires modern aircraft, but doesn't posses the funds to acquire them. Used f-16s come at a massive discount, and provide the capabilities expected of a late 4th generation platform(not necessarily as efficiently and effectively as it's newest competitors). Extracting another two decades from aircraft that require a relatively small outlay of funds would be the best case scenario for the PAF, under the circumstances.
The F-16, even in it's block 52 form, is potent enough to hold its own against the best any potential adversary has to offer. Will it dominate the skies and have a 100% success rate on strike mission, obviously not. But it does provide the PAF with a tangible upgrade in carrying out air interdiction and air superiority missions over it's current capability.
Over time, the F-16 will fall short, not because of what it lacks today but because of it's diminished role in the fast modernizing USAF. In the here and now, it can go toe to toe with any other 4th generation aircraft. It just doesn't provide the same scope for future modernization and development; but that is precisely why procuring the aircraft at a massive discount is such a good idea. Consider it a safe way to tackle the next couple of decades of deplorable funding in the face of a growing adversary.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

We viewed the 18 factory fresh F16C/D bl 50s as "bonus" aircrafts with 4/4.5 gen tech

i personally believe more resources should be devoted towards JF-17 Program, but oh well.


PAF knows exactly what they are doing and what are their requirements to maintain and promote minimal credible deterrence; therefore i trust & respect the decisions they make.

there was talk sometime back of procuring second hand F-16s from Norway; not sure if the talks materialized or not


Member PfPilot makes important points in post No. 21

 

[arp2041]

IMHO, this doesn't seems a good idea, i mean when IAF rejected the latest F-16s in the MMRCA race, it sighted two reasons for it, first being that F-16 is already operated by the PAF & second being that since the original F-16s first flown as far back as 1970s, they now have achieved there full tech. maturity with possibility of upgrades very minimal, since IAF worked out that they have to operate these a/c for next 4 decades, they insisted on a newer plane which can be upgraded after 15-20 years to suit the changing times. Even if PAF wants to keep these second hand F-16s for next 20-25 years, then i don't understand the rational behind it since by that time every major AF in the world will be operating 4.5+ gen a/c, & keeping 4th gen a/c in the inventory doesn't makes sense.

 

[Sinnerman108]

But if that is the case, J10B is clearly the way to go instead of limiting PAF to 4th gen techs, that hardly brings them on par with IAFs upgraded Mirage and Mig 29s.
Unless the US will provide PAF with something like the F16 B60, 2nd hand F16s will only add up numbers, but not quality.

There is another important factor which is being overlooked.
The 2nd hand F-16s are a dual edge sword .. let me explain why.

1. When the aircraft was sold first time, the seller made a profit on it. 2nd sale means added revenue in royalties, and a new demand of spares. This will provide Lockheed with revenue without investing in new production lines but only keeping the older lines running.

2. Secondly and most importantly; the availability of refurbished aircraft will cripple any new rival aircraft industry in infancy. The availability of tested and tried platform like F-16 will will deter 3rd world nations to invest in JVs away from US, or buy from a competitor like China or Russia.

Thus Lockheed not just makes revenue, on royalties and spares, while doing so it also ensures that it's hegemony will remain for many more years to come.

Lastly while all of this happens, the US government retains leverage over all customers.

 

[Paan Singh]

IMHO, this doesn't seems a good idea, i mean when IAF rejected the latest F-16s in the MMRCA race, it sighted two reasons for it, first being that F-16 is already operated by the PAF & second being that since the original F-16s first flown as far back as 1970s, they now have achieved there full tech. maturity with possibility of upgrades very minimal, since IAF worked out that they have to operate these a/c for next 4 decades, they insisted on a newer plane which can be upgraded after 15-20 years to suit the changing times. Even if PAF wants to keep these second hand F-16s for next 20-25 years, then i don't understand the rational behind it since by that time every major AF in the world will be operating 4.5+ gen a/c, & keeping 4th gen a/c in the inventory doesn't makes sense.

f-16's have no future or maximum 10 yrs from now...and IAF wanted twin engine AC and you know about the american strings :/

 

[Kompromat]

PAF is in negotiations with Norway in this regard too.

 

[Last Hope]

PAF is to receive 14 embargoed Ex-US Navy F-16s in December.

I have got a list of Serial numbers.

 

[mylovepakistan]

PAF is to receive 14 embargoed Ex-US Navy F-16s in December.

I have got a list of Serial numbers.

ummmmmmmm....

 

[[--Leo--]]

But if that is the case, J10B is clearly the way to go instead of limiting PAF to 4th gen techs, that hardly brings them on par with IAFs upgraded Mirage and Mig 29s.
Unless the US will provide PAF with something like the F16 B60, 2nd hand F16s will only add up numbers, but not quality.

But with 4th generation fighters increases the number and decrease the number of third generation F-7
That might be the plane for now i think upgrading those are very good idea and less costly every 1 knows that pakistan maintain the aircraft very well with such MLU kit and upgrades might be improve in performance not as new i say but sure must be better than before

 

[SQ8]

PAF is to receive 14 embargoed Ex-US Navy F-16s in December.

I have got a list of Serial numbers.

If true, then it is the worst deal ever made.
Because those US navy birds went through hell in round the clock ACT.