Scrap the MMRCA: buy US F-35s

[palash_kol]

Scraping the MMRCA deal will convey a bad message to the global military powers except US (who will be happy that without no competition they won the race and they are successful in making INDIA politically isolated from the countries. Since MMRCA deal is politically very important and should be fair enough). After so much of RFP evaluation, field evaluation, etc etc it is completely meaningless to go for any other fighter plane which is not even in the race.

If a reporter like Ajaishukla express his views in this ways...I would say it was not expected from a reporter like him who wanted India not to buy an aircraft career made in Britain..but want F-35 as MMRCA where there will not be enough TOT and other indian equipment integration considering India will be receiving it from 2018.

IMO....We already skipped few gen aircraft in making our indigenous aircraft(considering LCA a 4th gen aircraft)...Its time to get our hands on 4++ gen aircraft....get the technologies for our future AMCA....Otherwise we will have a hige gap in our knowledge in making fighter plane...No jumping - tumping any more....

Ajai babu...its bad reporting and bad suggestion...

 

[SpArK]

This is an interesting scenario put up by Ajay.. But its a late thing with so much trails and paper work along with heavily invested PR jobs done by the manufacturers which can question the credibility of a nation itself.

I have a better idea. Why not straightaway declare Rafale as the winner and commit to buy 126 of them.
Bargain with them at that numbers with exchange of the plan for upgrading 56 of the mirages which is yet to be signed which lowers the total amount of price.

Buy the F-35s for the IAF to replace the Mirages which is being exchanged that is 56 in number for 4-5 Billion. (2.75 is what Israel paid for 20 of them.

 

[prototype]

well,some of my points here on that

1.first of all,what about our depleting forces,can we field the same number of F-35's with that $10 billion

2.what about ToT

3.what about restriction's

4.when we r investing in FGFA which will become our front line fighter also a 5th generation aircraft,why should we waste our money on F-35

5.At a life time cost of $450 million f-35 is very costly,and the bad point after spending so much we will not b even able to use it for forward offense

so what's the need to go for f-35 scraping MMRCA

 

[SpArK]

well,some of my points here on that

1.first of all,what about our depleting forces,can we field the same number of F-35's with that $10 billion

Its a little bigger than EF , so what???

2.what about ToT

We dont need it , we get it from FGFA program

3.what about restriction's

Israel is making their own avionics and other measures. So not an issue

Israel to deploy its electronic systems on F-35s

4.when we r investing in FGFA which will become our front line fighter also a 5th generation aircraft,why should we waste our money on F-35

Because the future belongs to 5th generation one, which is superior.

5.At a life time cost of $450 million f-35 is very costly,and the bad point after spending so much we will not b even able to use it for forward offense

so what's the need to go for f-35 scraping MMRCA

The prices will come down as the production increases or manufacturing facilities moved to India.

Anyway F-35 is more than enough to have as a counter balance for the enormous threat from adversaries.

 

[sudhir007]

dnt agree, we dnt have fighter plane already we are short of f/a around 32.5 sqn. left. if we go for F-35 it will not come before 2020 it mean the gap is more wider we have to retire 4-5 sqn. in next 5yr. only hope is lca which is still short of it goal and mk-1 Question mark in it capabilities in the war scenario and the mk-2 will not come before 2016. it mean we have only 25-26sqn. we get around 5-6 dqn. su-30mki but it will not fill the gap. and after 2015 we have to retire Mig-27 which already not working well.

 

[SpArK]

Israel is expecting the delivery from 2015-2017.

 

[prototype]

Its a little bigger than EF , so what???

many people here think,we r not going with Ef,thats what

We dont need it , we get it from FGFA program

Then the question is why F-35,when we have ToT and both 5tg gen tech both alraedy in our kitty

Israel is making their own avionics and other measures. So not an issue

Israel to deploy its electronic systems on F-35s

so i think u.s had also assisted India in developing Arrow system just like Israel earlier

Because the future belongs to 5th generation one, which is superior.

once again,this is for the same purpose we had ordered 300 FGFA's and AMCA in future,why u want to operate 3 different class of this 5th gen,since our air force dont like that much variation

The prices will come down as the production increases or manufacturing facilities moved to India.

Anyway F-35 is more than enough to have as a counter balance for the enormous threat from adversaries.

may b but still it will cost much higher than FGFA since its production will b also done in facilities inside india

 

[SpArK]

many people here think,we r not going with Ef,thats what

Its not what "we" think that matters, The government is ready to buy EF if selected.

Then the question is why F-35,when we have ToT and both 5tg gen tech both alraedy in our kitty

What is the ToT talk, are we going to build a similar Rafale or say f-18 if we get the ToT ???

What have we done with ToT's so far???

so i think u.s had also assisted India in developing Arrow system just like Israel earlier

Yes the scenario has changed much. We will never go to war against US in near future. Any misadventures will be on consulatation with uncle sam because of the highly capable adversaries which MRCA is meant for.

once again,this is for the same purpose we had ordered 300 FGFA's and AMCA in future,why u want to operate 3 different class of this 5th gen,since our air force dont like that much variation

In the age of 5th generation , buy that generation .. we all know through the ages of MRCA's life time we may see 6th or 7th generation coming up.

may b but still it will cost much higher than FGFA since its production will b also done in facilities inside india

FGFA , AMCA are another platform.. F-35 is another. It doesn't mean since we already will have a 5th generation in a future date, we need to stick on with 4-4.5th generation ones which will be obsolete in a time span of say 6-7 years from now.

 

[prototype]

Its not what "we" think that matters, The government is ready to buy EF if selected.

lets wait and see about it

What is the ToT talk, are we going to build a similar Rafale or say f-18 if we get the ToT ???

What have we done with ToT's so far???

thats ur lack of knowledge about it,even the limited advancements in LCA if we had achived is all because of the same ToT which the Russian's had provided us,otherwise no chance we were jumping directly from a 2nd gen platform to 4th gen

Yes the scenario has changed much. We will never go to war against US in near future. Any misadventures will be on consulatation with uncle sam because of the highly capable adversaries which MRCA is meant for.

India defense strategy is not meant to b consulted with U.S(atleast on paper,that is what i am only concerned with)and by the way the platforms r also meant for forward agression,not waiting for Uncle sam's order when our freedom is at stake against those capable adversaries

In the age of 5th generation , buy that generation .. we all know through the ages of MRCA's life time we may see 6th or 7th generation coming up.

we had alraedy invested in 1 5th gen programme and we r purchasing it,u r speaking like U.S had suddenly retired all their flett of super hornets,strike eagles and super cobras and changed it with F-35 and F-22,a 4.5 gen plane is also meant to b work in parallel with a 5th gen,the various defense companies around the world r not fool to invest 100's of billion's when already 5th gen is in the sky

FGFA , AMCA are another platform.. F-35 is another. It doesn't mean since we already will have a 5th generation in a future date, we need to stick on with 4-4.5th generation ones which will be obsolete in a time span of say 6-7 years from now.

What 4.5 is obsolete in another 7 yrs,from were did u got that buddy,that means the officer's sitting at MoD r big fools upgrading those Mig-29's,Mirage-2000 mk-2,purchasing 270 mki,plan to field 250 LCA and this all with a potent life of 30 yrs

Also in this league is China,Pakistan,Germany,U.K,France and a lot who r investing heavily in their 4.5 th jets to meet up the number

 

[SpArK]

lets wait and see about it

Okayyy....

thats ur lack of knowledge about it,even the limited advancements in LCA if we had achived is all because of the same ToT which the Russian's had provided us,otherwise no chance we were jumping directly from a 2nd gen platform to 4th gen

What technology from Russia has been implemented in LCA?

India defense strategy is not meant to b consulted with U.S(atleast on paper,that is what i am only concerned with)and by the way the platforms r also meant for forward agression,not waiting for Uncle sam's order when our freedom is at stake against those capable adversaries

I totally agree. I was talking about the restriction. Indeed we will be dependent on vendor countries in future no matter what.

No country will give all the design plans all the hard work for a few billion dollars.

The development costs for the aircraft runs into many folds of the tender.

we had alraedy invested in 1 5th gen programme and we r purchasing it,u r speaking like U.S had suddenly retired all their flett of super hornets,strike eagles and super cobras and changed it with F-35 and F-22,a 4.5 gen plane is also meant to b work in parallel with a 5th gen,the various defense companies around the world r not fool to invest 100's of billion's when already 5th gen is in the sky

Here we are not investing , we are simply buying the damn fighters. By that logic since we are invested in LCA why buy MRCA?

What 4.5 is obsolete in another 7 yrs,from were did u got that buddy,that means the officer's sitting at MoD r big fools upgrading those Mig-29's,Mirage-2000 mk-2,purchasing 270 mki,plan to field 250 LCA and this all with a potent life of 30 yrs

A lot can change in 5-6 years if u have followed the technology which constantly evolved.

Also in this league is China,Pakistan,Germany,U.K,France and a lot who r investing heavily in their 4.5 th jets to meet up the number

LIMITATIONS. Luckily we are in a position to get the best from the best. Thanks to our diplomacy and the strong economy.

 

[Dash]

I am sure we better sane minds than the Shukla has in IAF.

There will be negetive impression and scenarios which will arise if we ever even think of buying F-35.

1. Russians will take it as a backstab as we already partnered with them 50-50 basis for their PAKFA program.
2. India will invest a lot of money to get a plane which was made to make money than making it a true fighter plane.
3. F-35 is not going to come before 2017-18 (the first delivery) which says 5-7 years delay in acquiring MRCA, so contradicting Shukla's logic here, the depleting force will further deplete.
4. Last and important, it will put our DFP to a joke.

 

[sancho]

a valid argument,
what say you, people ??

Not really, because F35 can't fulfill key requirements of MMRCA!

The first squad should be delivered by the winning vendor 2014, but F35 will be ready only by 2015/16, but with all the problems further delays are still possible. Also the licence production of 108 fighters in India, is not possible at all, because the main production is and will remain in the US at LM. Only the final assembly for major partners will be in UK, Italy and if I'm not wrong in Turkey. Israel will get theirs from the US and if they can make some minor changes on avionics, they have to send the parts to the US first, where they will be integrated, because no software, or source codes will be shared with any partner, or customer.
What in my opinion is even more important is the point of maintenance, because it was reported that Israel can't do it on their own and have to send them to the US, or Italy where a central maintenance hub for Europe could be. If that is true, we have to do the same too!
The costs are an issue of course too, because the $93 millions mention from Shukla, are only the fly away costs. The system price is expected beyond $150 millions each and the more problems they have in the development, the more the costs will rise.

Bottom line, there is simply no alternative for MMRCAs and I think we all agree that FGFA will give us way more than F35 can ever give us!

 

[!!craft!!]

now why do we need a fighter whose remote control will be in uncle Sams hands ??

 

[Kinetic]

Col Shukla is trying to delay already delayed, complex deal. It will lead to more confusion as well.

BTW I don't agree with his terms regarding F-18, EFT and Rafale.

 

[MAFIAN GOD]

OUR FGFA WILL COME BY THE TIME F-35 WILL BE DELIVERED TO IAF IF ORDERED.

SO SAY 'NO' TO F-35.