Scarborough fail: How Aquino blew it

[Fil Pacifist]

You've repeated the same rhetorical point ad nauseum. Claiming the resources as "ours" does not make it so.

The world recognizes China's 2,000-year-old historical claim to the South China Sea from the discoveries during the Han Dynasty and subsequent dynasties as proven by Chinese imperial records. So you see, the South China Sea belongs to us and not you. Want to see my citations?

Who among the countries of this world recognize this? Pakistan, North Korea, Cambodia? These countries are not the world to me.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Who among the countries of this world recognize this? Pakistan, North Korea, Cambodia? These countries are not the world to me.

They even don't have it, really
I have been challenging that "2,000-year-old historical claim" for a year but they have never showed us that evidence. I will say it's a "ghost" evidence, "invisible" evidence.
Just let we Vietnamese take care of their unknown "2,000-year-old historical claim".

 

[Fil Pacifist]

You're an idiot, because I already gave you a citation where Aquino said the Philippines can't afford to buy and maintain second-hand U.S. fighter jets. Any intelligent person can infer this means the Philippines don't have the money to spare on arms.

Only a retard like you will keep insisting the Philippines can buy lots of arms. The President of the Philippines Aquino has already contradicted you.

Try reading my citation (from post #15 and reproduced below) next time. I'm not posting citations for fun. They are there to educate idiots like you.

----------

The Philippines cannot afford to buy new or second-hand American jets (see citation below).

Philippines May Buy Fighter Jets Other Than U.S. F-16s | Defense News | defensenews.com

"Philippines May Buy Fighter Jets Other Than U.S. F-16s
May. 16, 2012 - 09:51AM |
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines is looking at arming itself for the first time with dedicated fighter jets made outside of the United States, President Benigno Aquino said May 16 amid a territorial dispute with China.

The Philippines last month requested aircraft, patrol boats and radar systems from its U.S. military ally to help it achieve what the government said would be a “minimum credible defense.”

Aquino said that his government had asked to buy second-hand F-16s from the U.S., but the jets’ maintenance costs could end up being too high because of their age.

“We might end up spending $400 million or $800 million per squadron, and we were thinking of getting two squadrons,” he said in an interview with Manila’s Bombo Radio.

“We do have an alternative, and — this is a surprise — it seems we have the capacity to buy brand-new, but not from America,” Aquino said, without mentioning the aircraft model. “These are manufactured by another progressive country that I won’t name at this point.”

Aquino noted that Manila had retired its last fighter jet, a Korean War-vintage F-5, in 2005.

It does continue to fly Italian firm Marchetti’s S211 trainer jets, which are sometimes used as ground attack aircraft against various insurgencies.

But along with the F-5, the Philippines had previously relied on obsolete U.S. hand-me-downs, including the T-33 and the P-51 Mustang as dedicated attack fighters. The country now has no effective air defenses.

It is engaged in a tense maritime standoff with China over the disputed Scarborough Shoal and surrounding waters in the South China Sea. Both nations have stationed vessels there for more than a month to assert their sovereignty."

Please take a look of the title of the citation you mentioned. "Philippines May Buy Fighter Jets Other Than U.S. F-16s"
The reason why the Phillippines is not buying the F16 is because of the high maintenance costs, not because it does not have funds to buy fighter planes. The Philippines even have the capacity to buy brandnew, please see the highlighted part on your citation.

 

[ephone]

There are tons of cases that Chinese fisherman being fired by vn, phi, sk and etc.

Oh really?

2 examples:
Vietnamese fishing boat was allegedly sunk by Chinese ship: One rescued, Three missing - The medical and societal journal of a vitreo-retinal surgeon. | Eye Dr DeLengocky
Chinese ship sunk Philippine fishing boat: 1 dead, 3 injured and 4 missing - The medical and societal journal of a vitreo-retinal surgeon. | Eye Dr DeLengocky

Are you tell us that Confucius is vietnamese as well as you created Chinese writings???

I thought those s.k. have made those claims already.

They even don't have it, really
I have been challenging that "2,000-year-old historical claim" for a year but they have never showed us that evidence. I will say it's a "ghost" evidence, "invisible" evidence.
Just let we Vietnamese take care of their unknown "2,000-year-old historical claim".

 

[Martian2]

They even doesn't have it, really
I have been challenging that "2,000-year-old historical claim" for a year but they have never showed us that evidence. I will say it's a "ghost" evidence, "invisible" evidence.
Just let we Vietnamese take care of their unknown "2,000-year-old historical claim".

French oil company Elf discovered 15th century Chinese galleon in South China Sea

BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions

"Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
Thursday, April 29, 1999 Published at 20:40 GMT 21:40 UK
By David Willis in the South China Sea

The discovery has drawn huge crowds to Brunei's national museum

Shipwrecked treasure, recently recovered from the bottom of the South China Sea, is threatening to inflame a diplomatic row over an area believed to be rich in oil.

Divers working for the French oil company Elf, stumbled across the wreck of a 15th Century Chinese galleon containing a hoard of priceless porcelain and ceramic pieces.

Divers working for an oil company stumbled across the wreck

The ship went down off the coast of Brunei and is thought to contain one of the largest hauls of buried treasure ever uncovered.

Using the same two-seater submarine as those used to survey the Titanic, archaeologists uncovered an Aladdin's Cave of intricately painted ancient pottery.

For more than two months, a daily haul of hundreds of artefacts were hauled to the surface. Back on land, a vast hanger was built to clean and catalogue the discoveries, thought to be worth millions of dollars.

Timeless beauty

The treasure haul is thought to be worth millions

"It's a fascinating project," says John Perry, Managing Director of Elf Petroleum Asia.

"The artefacts themselves, in their day may have been ordinary things in the street but today they have a timeless beauty, which is so hard to define but so real to touch."

For Brunei, a nation keen to lessen its dependence on oil revenue, the discovery has become a source of new national pride.

The artefacts provide the tiny sultanate with something money alone cannot buy - symbols of a cultural identity which, officials hope, will boost tourism.

Historical claims

Hundreds of items each day have been recovered

But the discovery of a series of such wrecks has been seized upon by China as evidence reinforcing its historical claims on the South China Sea.

Beijing says the discoveries prove Chinese vessels have been sailing the area since ancient times.

Five other countries in the region also lay claim to all or part of area's maritime territory - in particular to the Spratly Islands, which are reputed to hold the key to a much needed new source of oil. (article continues)"

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

French oil company Elf discovered 15th century Chinese galleon in South China Sea

BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions

"Undersea treasure chest stirs up tensions
Thursday, April 29, 1999 Published at 20:40 GMT 21:40 UK
By David Willis in the South China Sea

The discovery has drawn huge crowds to Brunei's national museum

Shipwrecked treasure, recently recovered from the bottom of the South China Sea, is threatening to inflame a diplomatic row over an area believed to be rich in oil.

Divers working for the French oil company Elf, stumbled across the wreck of a 15th Century Chinese galleon containing a hoard of priceless porcelain and ceramic pieces.

Divers working for an oil company stumbled across the wreck

The ship went down off the coast of Brunei and is thought to contain one of the largest hauls of buried treasure ever uncovered.

Using the same two-seater submarine as those used to survey the Titanic, archaeologists uncovered an Aladdin's Cave of intricately painted ancient pottery.

For more than two months, a daily haul of hundreds of artefacts were hauled to the surface. Back on land, a vast hanger was built to clean and catalogue the discoveries, thought to be worth millions of dollars.

Timeless beauty

The treasure haul is thought to be worth millions

"It's a fascinating project," says John Perry, Managing Director of Elf Petroleum Asia.

"The artefacts themselves, in their day may have been ordinary things in the street but today they have a timeless beauty, which is so hard to define but so real to touch."

For Brunei, a nation keen to lessen its dependence on oil revenue, the discovery has become a source of new national pride.

The artefacts provide the tiny sultanate with something money alone cannot buy - symbols of a cultural identity which, officials hope, will boost tourism.

Historical claims

Hundreds of items each day have been recovered

But the discovery of a series of such wrecks has been seized upon by China as evidence reinforcing its historical claims on the South China Sea.

Beijing says the discoveries prove Chinese vessels have been sailing the area since ancient times.

Five other countries in the region also lay claim to all or part of area's maritime territory - in particular to the Spratly Islands, which are reputed to hold the key to a much needed new source of oil. (article continues)"

Not sunk ships and skeletons again Not discovery again
Chech out this:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...lippines-if-china-attacks-11.html#post3244006
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I hate to break it to you guys. No Western scholar has challenged China's first discovery and claim of the South China Sea islands from the Han Dynasty and onwards.

Nah just gave me your Han Dynasty claim first What book, what map, what does it say ... I have been waiting for a year so long

Did you read my citation of Chinese relics found on the South China Sea islands from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368)?
Chinese relics can be found all over the South China Sea and on the islands themselves. The South China Sea has been China's backyard for 2,000 years.
There are 2,000 years of Chinese imperial records and maps. Chinese skeletons were physically discovered on the South China Sea islands. The Chinese pottery/bowls were also found on the South China Sea islands.

Sunk ships, skeletons ...
Chinese seem like prefer to claim lands where their people died rather than where their people lived

Some of the larger South China Sea islands have Chinese-built wells.

The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.

Want me to start going through them one by one? I can give you screen captures from the documentary videos of the archaeological digs on the South China Sea islands. Some of the Chinese-built wells have been there a long time.

I have never heard of an old Vietnamese or Filipino well on any of the South China Sea islands.

Below, I have provided a citation of Chinese relics from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) found near Hsisha Islands in the South China Sea. Can any Vietnamese or Filipino provide a reputable citation of Vietnamese or Filipino relics in the South China Sea that predates 1368? If you can't, you have just admitted to Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea islands.

You Chinese have even found Vietnamese Dong Son Bronze Drum in Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan. Should we claim those lands now?


-----
You discovered something first doesn't mean you have sovereignty over it first. Or Spain can claim the whole America continental, remember when the Westerners found the America, Spain couldn't claim that whole continental with the "first discovered" reason, they had to send there army their to set their to set their sovereignty, along with France, England, Portugal ...
You have to:
1) claim it officially, by (an) official map(s) or by a declaration from your gov, but no one oppose your claim.
2) disembark your army there to set sovereignty or pitch your flag there; but no one oppose your action.
But your gov musn't given up or abandoned it.

 

[Martian2]

I don't have any problem with using the PLA Navy to put you Vietnamese in your place again.

We blew all of you to hell at Johnson Reef in 1988 and we can do it again.

I write my posts to let everyone know that Chinese are fair and reasonable.

You Vietnamese are trespassers in our Chinese Lake/South China Sea and we'll mow you idiots down over and over again until you get the message.

 

[3starsandasun]

All bark. No bite.

We're scared. We are really scared. LOL!

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

I don't have any problem with using the PLA Navy to put you Vietnamese in your place again.

We blew all of you to hell at Johnson Reef in 1988 and we can do it again.

I write my posts to let everyone know that Chinese are fair and reasonable.

You Vietnamese are trespassers in our Chinese Lake/South China Sea and we'll mow you idiots down over and over again until you get the message.

If you attack us, the world will see real China - a threat to the peace of the world, and this is good for you, China.
It also prove your "fair and reasonable". So just attack, you will get many benefit from it.

------------
Also found that, your argument about "first discover" is also have some problems. According to Graham Thurgood in From Ancient Cham to Modern Dialects: Two Thousand Years of Language Contact and Change (1999), the first people who were interacted with Paracel and Spartly first were Nam Viet (Nanyue) people and Old Champa people. These people are definitely not Chinese.

 

[Martian2]

If you attack us, the world will see real China - a threat to the peace of the world, and this is good for you, China.
It also prove your "fair and reasonable". So just attack, you will get many benefit from it.

------------
Also found that, your argument about "first discover" is also have some problems. According to Graham Thurgood in From Ancient Cham to Modern Dialects: Two Thousand Years of Language Contact and Change (1999), the first people who were interacted with Paracel and Spartly first were Nam Viet (Nanyue) people and Old Champa people. These people are definitely not Chinese.

Come on! China is mowing you idiots down every day at Johnson Reef (in 1988) on YouTube.

China is waiting for Vietnam to make the first move and we'll mow you idiots down again. Chinese guns and missiles have gotten a lot bigger and more sophisticated in the last 24 years.

No one cares about Graham Thurgood. He's merely speculating. There are no skeletons or artifacts to back up the b.s. speculation.

I've got a 15th century Chinese galleon discovered by third-party French to back up China's imperial claims in the South China Sea. You Vietnamese have got nothing.

 

[3starsandasun]

$100 billion military budget and you're waiting for a small country to punch you first? M0ron!

 

[Martian2]

$100 billion military budget and you're waiting for a small country to punch you first? M0ron!

It's the modern world. Political correctness has infected everyone's minds.

The Russians had to wait for the Georgians to fire first. Similarly, China has to wait for the mouse to fire first. That's just the way things are.

 

[dunhill]

Come on! China is mowing you idiots down every day at Johnson Reef (in 1988) on YouTube.

China is waiting for Vietnam to make the first move and we'll mow you idiots down again. Chinese guns and missiles have gotten a lot bigger and more sophisticated in the last 24 years.

No one cares about Graham Thurgood. He's merely speculating. There are no skeletons or artifacts to back up the b.s. speculation.

I've got a 15th century Chinese galleon discovered by third-party French to back up China's imperial claims in the South China Sea. You Vietnamese have got nothing.

Why China needs to waitting for? China has big guns, missiles then be able to do like it was in 1988 or, China today has no guts any more. Right?

My opinion, China should starting now, clock is ticking and better taking care of business before Viet Nam will receives some Kilos, else it will be too late.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Come on! China is mowing you idiots down every day at Johnson Reef (in 1988) on YouTube.

Killing unarmed Military engineers, such a great victory for PLA.

China is waiting for Vietnam to make the first move and we'll mow you idiots down again. Chinese guns and missiles have gotten a lot bigger and more sophisticated in the last 24 years.

Our Navy today also is not our navy in 1988.
If you attack us, the world will see real China - a threat to the peace of the world, and this is good for you, China.
It also prove your "fair and reasonable". So just attack, you will get many benefit from it.

No one cares about Graham Thurgood. He's merely speculating. There are no skeletons or artifacts to back up the b.s. speculation.
I've got a 15th century Chinese galleon discovered by third-party French to back up China's imperial claims in the South China Sea. You Vietnamese have got nothing.

Your skeletons and artifacts and sunk ships are rubbish.
Skeletons: Go and claim Hanoi because 50.000 chinese death bodies are located in Dong Da Hill.
Artifacts: You Chinese have even found Vietnamese Dong Son Bronze Drum in Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan. Should we claim those lands now?
Sunk ships: Viking sank ships were also found in America. Rubbish.

 

[Fil Pacifist]

But the discovery of a series of such wrecks has been seized upon by China as evidence reinforcing its historical claims on the South China Sea.

Beijing says the discoveries prove Chinese vessels have been sailing the area since ancient times.

Five other countries in the region also lay claim to all or part of area's maritime territory - in particular to the Spratly Islands, which are reputed to hold the key to a much needed new source of oil. (article continues)"

If this flawed logic is followed, then the Atlantic Ocean, where the Titanic sunk, should be claimed by England.