Scam-wary Army calls off Israeli missile deal

[agamdilawari]

NEW DELHI: After years of searching for an anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) and finalizing an Israeli product, the Army has dramatically called off the deal because of fears of the single tender procurement erupting into a controversy in the future.

According to sources, the ATGM deal worth about Rs 15,000 crore, the biggest deal in recent times for the Army, was listed on the agenda of the defence acquisition council (DAC), headed by defence minister AK Antony, on April 2. It was originally meant to be cleared by the council for final approval of the Cabinet committee on security (CCS) headed by the Prime Minister.

However, Army chief General Bikram Singh is believed to have told the DAC that the Army was cancelling the deal and opting for a fresh process. The Army chief's move has surprised many, because of the aggressive way Army headquarters had been pushing the deal until then.

The deal is meant to equip 356 infantry battalions of the Army with the latest ATGMs. The Indian Army had been in advance stages of negotiations with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems of Israel for purchase of Spike ATGMs.

The Army had been searching for the past several years for a modern anti-tank missile to replace Milan and Konkurs — both in service with the Army for a few decades now. First, the Army zeroed in on a government-to-government deal with the US for the Javelin missiles — jointly produced by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin — but it fell through after the US refused transfer of technology for indigenous production in India by Bharat Dynamics Limited.

While some sources insist that the deal could be brought back to the desk after a global technology scan and ensuring that there are no other options available, there is now clarity on the issue. Sources admit that the deal is over, and a fresh process will start.

Sources said the era of single vendor procurements — unless it is an extraordinary situation — is virtually over. In recent years, companies from Russia, Israel and even the US have bagged several contracts through single vendor situations.

Changes in procurement process get nod

The DAC has approved several amendments to the way military equipment is purchased in the country. Among them are a series of measures to increase accountability in terms of timeframe for selecting a product. The DAC has also approved removal of all references to Raksha Udyog Ratnas from the Defence Procurement Procedure.

The status was meant to be granted to about a dozen firms, which were to be given preferential treatment at par with defence PSUs in military contracts. The second amendment is that the acceptance of necessity, the first step in procurement, will be granted only after services have prepared the (general staff qualitative requirement) for an equipment.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Scam-wary-Army-calls-off-Israeli-missile-deal/articleshow/19520226.cms

 

[janon]

Now this is insanity. The biggest importer of arms worldwide needs to get its act together and formulate a proper procedure for imports and acquisitions. We have been doing these helter skelter buying, and cancellations, and delaying and vacilations for too long. There HAS to be a systematic way to do these things. What are policymakers there for, if not to formulate policy?

The army has been crying about lack of modern man portable ATGMs for a long time, evaluated contenders, then tried to get a ToT for javelin, waited and waited until there was a disagreement over that, then turned to Spike, delayed a decision for ages, finally took a decision, and then went back on it the next day. What next, another RFP followed by an RFI followed by user trials in all conditions from the deserts of rajastan to the snow clad Himalayas, in all weathers, from summer to winter to monsoons, then followed by another round of ToT bargaining?

Meanwhile other armies look at the available products and their price range, sit down on a table, and decide what they want and buy it.

This was the situation, more than TWO YEARS back:

Spike or Javelin? India Still Undecided on a Billion Dollar Missile Buy

And today, India is still vacillating. Something is institutionally and fundamentally wrong about our procurement policy.

 

[MilSpec]

good job.... 70K for missile is like throwing at chinese tanks on both sides of the border. We aren't that rich yet,,, desi missile is the answer!

 

[janon]

good job.... 70K for missile is like throwing at chinese tanks on both sides of the border. We aren't that rich yet,,, desi missile is the answer!

That would be ideal of course. However, 'des' has not come up with one, and the forces badly need it in large numbers. They cannot keep using wire-guided old Soviet ATGMs. Even the vehicle mounted nag is still years away from operational service. To develop a new, man portable one and test it and produce it would take....well who knows how long DRDO will take?

It was because of DRDO's failure that we looked for alternatives abroad. Note that the deal was not cancelled for cost reasons, but for procedural ones. Which means that they will still buy one from abroad, but after more trials and meetings with company representatives for years. Meanwhile the prices will keep going up, since military inflation is much bigger than other inflation. Eventually we will buy these or javelins at a higher cost.

That's what happened with the tanker deal, which was actually scuttled for being too costly. We purchased them a few years later at an even higher cost.

 

[MilSpec]

That would be ideal of course. However, 'des' has not come up with one, and the forces badly need it in large numbers. They cannot keep using wire-guided old Soviet ATGMs. Even the vehicle mounted nag is still years away from operational service. To develop a new, man portable one and test it and produce it would take....well who knows how long DRDO will take?

It was because of DRDO's failure that we looked for alternatives abroad. Note that the deal was not cancelled for cost reasons, but for procedural ones. Which means that they will still buy one from abroad, but after more trials and meetings with company representatives for years. Meanwhile the prices will keep going up, since military inflation is much bigger than other inflation. Eventually we will buy these or javelins at a higher cost.

That's what happened with the tanker deal, which was actually scuttled for being too costly. We purchased them a few years later at an even higher cost.

I understand , man but $70000 for an atgm, which has probably 2 sets of transducers, couple of kg's of solid propellant, a shaped charge and few emmitors and receivers should not cost more than $5000.

My comment was the same yesterday, using this atgm is like shooting a third rate chinese tank on either side of the border with a BMW M5, we are not just that rich.

Even if takes time, we should look at domestic options, nahi banta hai to give the project to reliance,tata or lt.. lakh rupayye mein car bana sakte hai to thodi mehnat karo to sasta sundar takau ATGM bhi ban jayegaa!

 

[Abingdonboy]

I understand , man but $70000 for an atgm, which has probably 2 sets of transducers, couple of kg's of solid propellant, a shaped charge and few emmitors and receivers should not cost more than $5000.

My comment was the same yesterday, using this atgm is like shooting a third rate chinese tank on either side of the border with a BMW M5, we are not just that rich.

Even if takes time, we should look at domestic options, nahi banta hai to give the project to reliance,tata or lt.. lakh rupayye mein car bana sakte hai to thodi mehnat karo to sasta sundar takau ATGM bhi ban jayegaa!

Mate, you realize all that will happen (as ALWAYS HAPPENS) is the exact same product will be picked, many years after it should have been but this time everyone has their backs covered so there is no question of pointing fingers. This is what happens when bureaucrats get involved in defence matters.

The IA will still ready to throw a BMW M5 at enemy tanks, just many years later than it would have ideally liked.

This is a real bummer though. Just when it looked like this deal was going to come to a close.



effing babus!!!

 

[Kazhugu]

Something is institutionally and fundamentally wrong about our procurement policy.

or more simply put - something is wrong with our institutions.....

 

[Nisha]

Buy a few, and reverse engineer the rest.

 

[MST]

I think we should just buy some Javeline as a stop gap through FMS. That should not come under scrutiny.

And meanwhile work on the man portable version of Nag (through Israeli help) or go for some joint R&D with the Israelis on the lines of LRSAM.

 

[JohnSeb]

Buy a few, and reverse engineer the rest.

Why would we do that?

This is not good, the selection process in India is the slowest in whole World & our Army chief wants to start over again, WTF

 

[Abingdonboy]

Why would we do that?

This is not good, the selection process in India is the slowest in whole World & our Army chief wants to start over again, WTF

Have no doubt this is a MoD decsion, come right down from the "Saint" himself. He'd rather protect his image than service his nation. It has obviously been made clear to the IA that a single-vendor tender was never going to fly in the current times, the IA took the sensible decision and pulled out instead of pounding their heads against a brick wall for the next many months. Now they can begin the process to get these a few months earlier than if they had continued to plead their case to the MoD. Pragmatism on the IA's front in the face of selfishness in the MoD.

 

[Abingdonboy]

or more simply put - something is wrong with our institutions.....

Yes, the MoD is just not fit for purpose in its current form. Whilst in most modern militaries there is a significant serving and retired military presence in the defence dept, in the Indian MoD there is practically zero. As such these bureaucrats flap about and serve their own interests as any pencil-pusher in any nation on Earth acts. As such what the Military needs most is is not given.


The current MoD makeup is nothing new but the culture of inactivity has stepped in as a direct result of the "Saint's" leadership. The MoD has now taken the approach of being all too conservative and cautious on every front and as such is self-serving and not serving the Indian military or India itself.



The MoD needs to have far more military members involved at all levels.

 

[Nisha]

Have no doubt this is a MoD decsion, come right down from the "Saint" himself. He'd rather protect his image than service his nation. It has obviously been made clear to the IA that a single-vendor tender was never going to fly in the current times, the IA took the sensible decision and pulled out instead of pounding their heads against a brick wall for the next many months. Now they can begin the process to get these a few months earlier than if they had continued to plead their case to the MoD. Pragmatism on the IA's front in the face of selfishness in the MoD.

I don;t think we should blame AK Anthony for this mess. The guy is in a position to finally try to get rid of the systemic corruption that is plaguing our defence forces. Obviously, its not going smooth because such corruption is firmly rooted in the system and other powers don;t want it to be dismantled. But in the end, AK Anthony is doing all of India a favor.

Why would we do that?

This is not good, the selection process in India is the slowest in whole World & our Army chief wants to start over again, WTF

I stated so as a quick fix. Sometimes, I think we our private sectors should be given the responsibility of reverse engineering certain weapons and products. This would not hamper the public entreprises but still allow us to get ahead. What do you think?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yes, the MoD is just not fit for purpose in its current form. Whilst in most modern militaries there is a significant serving and retired military presence in the defence dept, in the Indian MoD there is practically zero. As such these bureaucrats flap about and serve their own interests as any pencil-pusher in any nation on Earth acts. As such what the Military needs most is is not given.


The current MoD makeup is nothing new but the culture of inactivity has stepped in as a direct result of the "Saint's" leadership. The MoD has now taken the approach of being all too conservative and cautious on every front and as such is self-serving and not serving the Indian military or India itself.



The MoD needs to have far more military members involved at all levels.

When one of our institutions became too corrupt and inefficient we did this last month:

BBC News - China scraps railways ministry


I'm not suggesting such extreme measures for this situation, but there could definitely be some sort of re-vamp done to these institutions to improve efficiency.

 

[selvan33]

uuhhhhh. again a delay. non sense indian procurement policies affecting our whole defence preparedness.