SC rejects plea seeking probe of cipher at centre of Imran’s ‘foreign conspiracy’ claims

[Meengla]

I can appreciate the sarcasm as much as the next guy, but just because he was once a good cricket player, does not really mean much for his role as PM or as a politician. May be he should not have harped that "same page" mantra too much when the going was good for him, and admit that he was just another ignorant idiot who did not realize he was a mere pawn until it was too late. Or he was lying to the people knowingly. Either way, he showed himself to be totally untrustworthy of the adulation his cult followers still place in him. There will be more disappointments coming their way, undoubtedly.

Imran sure had me fooled until his Speaker threw out the No Confidence Motion. Then, all of a sudden, my eyes opened and I realized Imran, while maybe 'sincere' or 'non-corrupt' etc, was not the saint/sage I had thought of. My hope and pray is that he has learned his lessons and next time, should he come to power, he gets enough votes to note to appease the compromised politicians.

 

[VCheng]

Imran sure had me fooled until his Speaker threw out the No Confidence Motion. Then, all of a sudden, my eyes opened and I realized Imran, while maybe 'sincere' or 'non-corrupt' etc, was not the saint/sage I had thought of. My hope and pray is that he has learned his lessons and next time, should he come to power, he gets enough votes to note to appease the compromised politicians.

As I have said to many who have realized - finally - what I have been saying all along, everyone has their own personal path from darkness into the light. Even now, I continue to caution against assuming that even if re-elected with a majority, there is no indication of any policies from IK that would be effective in solving Pakistan's problems or helping any of his promises come true, only empty rhetoric, just the same as before. Consider yourself forewarned, blunt as it may seem.

 

[Olympus81]

The so-called 'cipher' was a lie to begin with. It was Imran's path to regain power by exploiting Pakistanis' anti-Americanism and it has worked for him!! But you know what: He, by lying on such an important matter where a mere flick of Biden's pen would have CRIPPLED Pakistan's economy, showed how reckless, temperamental and egotistical person he is. He put his personal interests above Pakistan's!! Then his National Assembly Speaker refused the No Confidence Motion based on the cipher lie: Two previous Prime Ministers (Benazir Bhutto and Shaukat Aziz) faced the NCM. It is a Constitutional requirement!! In case of Benazir, just about EVERYONE was arrayed/arranged against her and yet she faced that off like a lioness and barely escaped.
The biggest tragedy of all this is that Imran didn't even have to lie. His opponents were/are discredited and were going to fall on their own sword--as they are. But his recklessness could have caused tens of millions of Pakistanis catastrophic damages.

Let’s agree to disagree.

Cipher was a reality, the NSC MoM validated it. The subsequent meeting under Shahbaz when the Ambassador was called in validated it. No doubt about it.

The NCM where PTM, Murderers were brought in to vote, apart from what was happening in Sindh house. We know who arranged for all that. It was an all out RCO.

The economy was taken to the dogs when the investors saw the public sentiments of the corrupts coming back and giving themselves NRO. Exacerbated by their stupid policies and dishonesty. And then came Dar and his sorcery.

First 4 months, had they not focused on giving themselves NRO, installing their stooges, tear gassing protestors, IK obsession etc etc things might have been different.

IK might or might not be re elected. One thing for sure has happened is, the PDM together with Establishment have done a huge damage to Pakistan. It will take a Herculean effort to bring the country out which will not happen overnight.

 

[Meengla]

As I have said to many who have realized - finally - what I have been saying all along, everyone has their own personal path from darkness into the light. Even now, I continue to caution against assuming that even if re-elected with a majority, there is no indication of any policies from IK that would be effective in solving Pakistan's problems or helping any of his promises come true, only empty rhetoric, just the same as before. Consider yourself forewarned, blunt as it may seem.

I will be more cautious going forward. But you know, after almost 4 decades of the same old, I had to be a bit blind to Imran's faults. I had seen his arrogant, autocratic side as a cricketer in the 1980s and even then he was criticized for that.
I am still willing to give him a chance though! But this time 'trust, but verify' approach.

 

[VCheng]

I will be more cautious going forward. But you know, after almost 4 decades of the same old, I had to be a bit blind to Imran's faults. I had seen his arrogant, autocratic side as a cricketer in the 1980s and even then he was criticized for that.
I am still willing to give him a chance though! But this time 'trust, but verify' approach.

I can perfectly understand where you are coming from, and continue to respect the right to your own thoughts and opinions on the matter. I will of course keep mine, just the same.

 

[Meengla]

Let’s agree to disagree.

Cipher was a reality, the NSC MoM validated it. The subsequent meeting under Shahbaz when the Ambassador was called in validated it. No doubt about it.

The NCM where PTM, Murderers were brought in to vote, apart from what was happening in Sindh house. We know who arranged for all that. It was an all out RCO.

The economy was taken to the dogs when the investors saw the public sentiments of the corrupts coming back and giving themselves NRO. Exacerbated by their stupid policies and dishonesty. And then came Dar and his sorcery.

First 4 months, had they not focused on giving themselves NRO, installing their stooges, tear gassing protestors, IK obsession etc etc things might have been different.

IK might or might not be re elected. One thing for sure has happened is, the PDM together with Establishment have done a huge damage to Pakistan. It will take a Herculean effort to bring the country out which will not happen overnight.

We agree to disagree. And you are totally blind to the economic 'landmines' that Imran left behind. And you and those who agree with you MOCK the entire Pakistani state when you put so much faith in the damn 'cipher' written as a note by Pakistan's OUTGOING diplomat over a dinner with a C Grade American diplomat. Yes, Biden would rather not deal with Imran but that did not translate into some CIA toppling Imran. Imran was brought to power by the Pakistan's Establishment and the same establishment, seeing Imran's follies, simply decided to UNSupport him! Do you know long before the NCM drama, one of Imran's staunch supporter anchor Haroon Rashid said that after the 2018 elections, the MQM winners were made to 'sit on cold floor' until they agreed to support Imran?? Where was America then??!! What kind of world you guys live in???

As to the current situation, it is partly because of the ineptitude of the current govt, part due to the the global situation, but MOSTLY it is because Imran has control over the Presidency and two provinces: Instead of governance, this govt is constantly dealing with political turmoil since April 2022. Just like in the 1990s, the chaos destroyed Pakistan, it is happening again. Even by Pakistan's low standards, the chaos caused by Imran, who is likely to win anyway in the next elections, is unmatched. Your new Messiah needs to be wiser than you think he is.

 

[Ssan]

1. The matter is clearly an executive domain issue.

2. Please see 1.

Done.

Agree to disagree.

I think it’s clearly judicial in spirit of the inquiry being asked.

 

[Ssan]

We agree to disagree. And you are totally blind to the economic 'landmines' that Imran left behind. And you and those who agree with you MOCK the entire Pakistani state when you put so much faith in the damn 'cipher' written as a note by Pakistan's OUTGOING diplomat over a dinner with a C Grade American diplomat. Yes, Biden would rather not deal with Imran but that did not translate into some CIA toppling Imran. Imran was brought to power by the Pakistan's Establishment and the same establishment, seeing Imran's follies, simply decided to UNSupport him! Do you know long before the NCM drama, one of Imran's staunch supporter anchor Haroon Rashid said that after the 2018 elections, the MQM winners were made to 'sit on cold floor' until they agreed to support Imran?? Where was America then??!! What kind of world you guys live in???

As to the current situation, it is partly because of the ineptitude of the current govt, part due to the the global situation, but MOSTLY it is because Imran has control over the Presidency and two provinces: Instead of governance, this govt is constantly dealing with political turmoil since April 2022. Just like in the 1990s, the chaos destroyed Pakistan, it is happening again. Even by Pakistan's low standards, the chaos caused by Imran, who is likely to win anyway in the next elections, is unmatched. Your new Messiah needs to be wiser than you think he is.

I don’t see how people can still say that the cipher was a lie. Pretty much all the relevant details are out in the open. Did IK play anti-Americanism? Yes. Were the Americans the only players involved in VONC? No. Were they a key player though? Yes.

The rest of this argument that establishment brought IK is a white lie. No they did not. They managed the elections to force a weak majority for IK so that they could control him. They fooled IK and took the rest of us for a ride too but now have lost all their credibility.

Btw, enough of this cult, messiah nonsense. Most of the PTI supporters are open to criticizing IK. But this liberal anti-IK brigade is so nakedly biased and comically unreasonable that one is forced to go the other way. IK is no holy cow. Neither is the SC, the army, the establishment, or the liberals themselves.

 

[Olympus81]

We agree to disagree. And you are totally blind to the economic 'landmines' that Imran left behind. And you and those who agree with you MOCK the entire Pakistani state when you put so much faith in the damn 'cipher' written as a note by Pakistan's OUTGOING diplomat over a dinner with a C Grade American diplomat. Yes, Biden would rather not deal with Imran but that did not translate into some CIA toppling Imran. Imran was brought to power by the Pakistan's Establishment and the same establishment, seeing Imran's follies, simply decided to UNSupport him! Do you know long before the NCM drama, one of Imran's staunch supporter anchor Haroon Rashid said that after the 2018 elections, the MQM winners were made to 'sit on cold floor' until they agreed to support Imran?? Where was America then??!! What kind of world you guys live in???

As to the current situation, it is partly because of the ineptitude of the current govt, part due to the the global situation, but MOSTLY it is because Imran has control over the Presidency and two provinces: Instead of governance, this govt is constantly dealing with political turmoil since April 2022. Just like in the 1990s, the chaos destroyed Pakistan, it is happening again. Even by Pakistan's low standards, the chaos caused by Imran, who is likely to win anyway in the next elections, is unmatched. Your new Messiah needs to be wiser than you think he is.

I am not blinded by Imran Khan’s economic policies. I called out his policy of subsidising oil prices to a level that his economic team did. That probably caused a dent in forex reserves ($22b to $16b).

Next what stopped Shahbaz and his team from reversing the subsidies in the first month?

The PDM and Establishment destroyed Pakistan. For their selfish reasons. In PDM’s case it was the corruption cases against them. In Establishment case, it was the institutions obsession with supra constitutional powers that they’ve been enjoying and were not willing to cede space.

The public, not the PDF members here, have been the best judge post April. The Pakistani public, majority of it, has seen the real face of PDM and Establishment. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to infer that.

Coming to IK/PTI, one would be naive to think he has solutions to most of the problems. His team, however good, won’t be able to solve Pakistan’s problems any time soon. Even a decade of political stability and sane economic policies won’t be enough to undo the damage. With Pakistan’s checkered history of corrupts and establishment poking its nose around the chance look increasingly dim.

 

[doorstar]

Imran, while maybe 'sincere' or 'non-corrupt' etc

non-corrupt? he's as corrupt as the dezal chor and the fat pandit. do you know what he did on the day of the ceremony for the 6 j-10s? he 'ordered' then upon rejection offered Gen Bajwa money to cancel the remainder provoking the General to give him an earful and leaving his seat next to the corrupt imam then the venue

 

[Deltadart]

Pakistani kangaroo courts/justice system is a joke.
The fact is that the company wanted to legally overthrow the IKs' elected government, but wanted the blessing of their big bosses, who are more important than Allah to them. We all know who the bosses are.
Then the company came across a low level state dept operative, Donald gook, who had similar ideas, and the company immediately prostrated at his feet, and the rest is history. It is the company's fault, and no one else's.

 

[Olympus81]

non-corrupt? he's as corrupt as the dezal chor and the fat pandit. do you know what he did on the day of the ceremony for the 6 j-10s? he 'ordered' then upon rejection offered Gen Bajwa money to cancel the remainder prompting the General to give him an earful and leaving his seat next to the corrupt imam then the venue

NAB/FIA should have a field day then.

 

[Meengla]

non-corrupt? he's as corrupt as the dezal chor and the fat pandit. do you know what he did on the day of the ceremony for the 6 j-10s? he 'ordered' then upon rejection offered Gen Bajwa money to cancel the remainder provoking the General to give him an earful and leaving his seat next to the corrupt imam then the venue

I don't casually accuse people of corruption. Even my negatives views of the PDM have been shaped by the same 'Establishment' who kicked out various PPP and Noon League govts various times. Some Pakistani journalists--even Imran's cult followers like Moeed Pirzada--are acknowledging that their views about the anti-Imran parties have been indeed shaped by the Establishment.

Also, I don't see 'corruption' destroyed Pakistan to the extent people here seem to think. The same ruling class ruled Pakistan from 1947 but Pakistan was ahead of India in many ways well into the 1980s. And by most accounts, both Shahbaz Sharif and Pervez Illahi have been credited to be the best Chief Ministers of Pakistan. I consider political instability to be the biggest threat to Pakistan and I see Imran Khan is the instigator of that. He is going to win the next elections anyway but he, being an impetuous Narcisistic person, can't wait for the day even if it means it's going to destroy Pakistan.

 

[HAIDER]

Faiz Isa knows the answer, but does he have the guts to probe the role of the military establishment or go against US govt? . No, he does not. So to avoid confronting the establishment and raised such questions and close the case, also his properties are in UK and kids in Spain, his wife is a Spanish national, found involved in money laundering of millions of pounds. He is next appointment as CJ at stake and he wants that post desperately. He already badly wanted to remove the reference in SC against him, because that reference may cause a problem for his appointment as Cj of Pakistan and PMLn want him at any cost to remove all Nawaz cases.
Anyway, Bajwa already damage the system, exposed and accepted all his regime change actions.

 

[villageidiot]

non-corrupt? he's as corrupt as the dezal chor and the fat pandit. do you know what he did on the day of the ceremony for the 6 j-10s? he 'ordered' then upon rejection offered Gen Bajwa money to cancel the remainder provoking the General to give him an earful and leaving his seat next to the corrupt imam then the venue

Jesus Christ, dude. What witch-doctor do you get your meds from? Even hakeems and homeopaths come certified these days.

@Olympus81 , any ideas?