Save tribals...oppose Vedanta!

[nForce]

It is justified to oppose the deal had there been no relocation packages.But there are packages which are being provided to the inhabitants of the place.So I guess there is no logic in opposing it.

Having said that,lets turn our focus to the term 'controversial'.Well,a deal maybe termed to be controversial.Controversy maybe related to anything and everything.For that matter a wardrobe malfunction in some fashion show is potent enough to create nation wide controversy.But,if something is controversial,then it does not necessarily mean that it is illegal or unethical.Proper steps are being taken for relocation of the tribals.So there should be no complaints.Obviously,nobody likes to get out from his own comfort zone.I would personally not like being told to get out of my present apartment and stay somewhere else even though the new apartment maybe as good as that one.But,we also need to keep national interests in mind.We cannot choke the process of development which is meant for the sake of greater good.

If we start sacrificing projects like this following the logic that it will cause temporary hindrance to some people while benefiting the nation as a whole,then by that logic we should not send the soldiers to guard the national borders as well.After all why should some men put their life on stake for the sake of many others???
Now does that make sense????
Society and thereby an entire nation runs in much more complex manner than some ignorant people can perceive of..............

 

[Titanium]

help!!!
how to post pictures??

just click on the "insert image" and provide url.

 

[Ras]

Same as every american native had..but did u followers of the christ care??Eating a roasted turkey and saying thanks to the lakhs u massacared ill get them rid of their pains isnt it??

I am an atheist...instead of worrying about their religion try to save them from looters like Vedanta.

 

[Ras]

It is justified to oppose the deal had there been no relocation packages.But there are packages which are being provided to the inhabitants of the place.So I guess there is no logic in opposing it.

Having said that,lets turn our focus to the term 'controversial'.Well,a deal maybe termed to be controversial.Controversy maybe related to anything and everything.For that matter a wardrobe malfunction in some fashion show is potent enough to create nation wide controversy.But,if something is controversial,then it does not necessarily mean that it is illegal or unethical.Proper steps are being taken for relocation of the tribals.So there should be no complaints.Obviously,nobody likes to get out from his own comfort zone.I would personally not like being told to get out of my present apartment and stay somewhere else even though the new apartment maybe as good as that one.But,we also need to keep national interests in mind.We cannot choke the process of development which is meant for the sake of greater good.

If we start sacrificing projects like this following the logic that it will cause temporary hindrance to some people while benefiting the nation as a whole,then by that logic we should not send the soldiers to guard the national borders as well.After all why should some men put their life on stake for the sake of many others???
Now does that make sense????
Society and thereby an entire nation runs in much more complex manner than some ignorant people can perceive of..............

So you want vast portions of India's forests turned black and dusty with mining? The minerals will run out but the forests once gone will not come back...nor will the tribals whose way of life will be destroyed forever.
Instead of mining and destroying fertile forest land a better use would be to use that land for farming. Remember mining destroys the land.

 

[chachachoudhary]

This issue is extremely important and needs thorough discussion. Things are not so simple as they look. However, this is in no way related to india defence.

I request mods to move this thread to relevent section so that we can have detailed discussion on the topic.

 

[nForce]

So you want vast portions of India's forests turned black and dusty with mining? The minerals will run out but the forests once gone will not come back...nor will the tribals whose way of life will be destroyed forever.
Instead of mining and destroying fertile forest land a better use would be to use that land for farming. Remember mining destroys the land.

Lol...Ras..lemme tell u at this point that u r talking to an engineer here..Try avoiding saying anything that will make u a laughing stock.

While mining goes on at one side of the mines the dozers work day and night to fill up the other sides where ores were previously taken out.There are govt policies in relation to this.U just cannot take out the ores and take off.It comes as a part of the package.The surface area of the land is returned to normal condition once mining in that region.This is not something done after all the mining in that region is finished.It is a gradual process that goes on side by side.The mining companies operating in India have special Reforestation programs to address the issue.

I ll share with u a pdf that talks about some generalized processes that are followed.But ,I know,for a fact,that the processes are widely dependent on the terrain and may vary from place to place...


Low Compaction grading to enhance Reforestation

The total forest cover in India is around 20.55 % of its geographic area.Now thats quite good data for any country.Are u suggesting that mining operations are going to affect all these lands at a time???

And I have addresed the tribal issue before.So I will ask to to go through what I have said in my previous post.Dont provide lame arguments.It feels like I am talking to some high school kid and wasting my time here...

 

[Justin Joseph]

Because the Indian govt is doing squat to save the culture and life of fellow Indians.

Pretty shameful that non-Indians are more worried about the Indian tribals than the Indians themselves.

1. First of all Its not India Defense section stuff.

2. It is shameful for chinese troll hiding behind US flags to post a silly flame when one don't know anything about tribal in India.

3. Now comes the propaganda busted part with hard slap of facts on trolls.



Propaganda Busted: A must read for all concerned


Hills show way forward for tribals
S A Aiyar, 27 June 2010, 12:30 AM IST

So you think that Indian tribals are utterly downtrodden, oppressed and bypassed by national economic development? You think activists are right to view Maoist insurgency as a tribal blessing and the only way forward for such an oppressed group?

Think again. No less than 17.1% of tribals own colour TVs, 46.6% have bicycles, 20% have two-wheelers, 12.5% have life insurance and 8.5% have refrigerators. That is below the national average of course, but nothing like the stark deprivation painted by activists.

These startling figures come from Caste in a Different Mould by Rajesh Shukla, Sunil Jain and Preeti Kakkar. The book draws on major household surveys by the National Council on Applied Economic Research, especially one in 2004-05. Its main finding is that caste matters much less than people think, while education and location matter much more.

That is good news. The OBCs (other backward castes) show no sign of suffering from discrimination — their income and durables ownership shares are roughly in line with population share. The share of dalits and tribals is below the national average, but not nearly as far below as activists and Maoists would have you believe.

India's average annual household income in 2004-05 was Rs 65,041. Upper caste households averaged Rs 86,690, higher than the national average but not dramatically so. Tribals averaged Rs 40,753, lower than the national average but not dramatically so.

Cynics will say this is too good to be true. Academic Pratap Bhanu Mehta expresses surprise in an introductory chapter that inequality seems so low. Tribals account for 8% of the population and 5.2% of national income. This inequality is strikingly modest.

In the US, the bottom quintile (bottom 20%) of the population gets only 3% of the national income. In India, the bottom quintile gets twice as much. Tribals and dalits account for 24.8% of the population and as much as 17% of national income, clear evidence that some are well off.

One-third of tribals are in the lowest quintile, but as many as 4% of them are well off and in the top quintile. Differences between tribals are as great as all-India differences. Hence block benefits for all tribals (such as job reservation) are not warranted.

Tribal households in hill states average an annual income of Rs 72,052, well above the national average. In other states, tribal income rises in line with state incomes. Tribals average Rs 30,939 per year in low-income states, Rs 44,533 in middle-income states, and Rs 53,176 in high-income states.

Laws on reservation (and most analyses) make no distinction between tribals in different areas. That is a terrible mistake. Tribals in hill states are privileged, not deprived. The tribal north-eastern states have the benefit of low population, high literacy (boosted initially by Christian missionary schools), and extensive road networks built for defence purposes in these border areas. The north-east also benefits from huge infusions of Central money and substantial income from smuggling. Violent clashes are common in the north-east too, but these are not Maoist: they relate to secession (Nagaland) or inter-tribal tensions (Manipur and the Bodo territories).

Tribals in low-income states like Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh earn slightly less than half the national average. This is a pity, but hardly represents a hopeless state of deprivation justifying violent insurrection. Like me, most readers will be astonished that tribals are not worse off in even the most inhospitable locations. Tribals in these locations can double their incomes by migrating to higher income states, and even more (to Rs 85,023 per year) by migrating to big cities.

Illiterate upper castes earn 1.4 times as much as illiterate tribals. This suggests a modest degree of discrimination. But a graduate tribal earns 3.7 times as much as an illiterate one. Among upper castes, graduates earn 4.2 times as much as illiterates. Clearly education provides a way forward for everybody.

This suggests the foundation of a proactive strategy to combat the socio-economic appeal of Maoism in tribal areas. First, roads and other infrastructure are needed to improve economic possibilities and migration opportunities. Second, education is needed to create skills and lift potential incomes.

The combined effect of infrastructure and education can lift tribals above the national average, as has been achieved in the hill states. The task will be much harder in the central Indian jungles. But it can be done. And it will benefit tribals far more than the supposed blessings of Maoist rule.

Hills show way forward for tribals : India : S A Aiyar : TOI Blogs

 

[Titanium]

Propaganda Busted: A must read for all concerned


Hills show way forward for tribals
S A Aiyar, 27 June 2010, 12:30 AM IST

These startling figures come from Caste in a Different Mould by Rajesh Shukla, Sunil Jain and Preeti Kakkar. The book draws on major household surveys by the , especially one in 2004-05. Its main finding is that caste matters much less than people think, while education and location matter much more.
]

The names says it all, and survey of tribals.............National Council on Applied Economic Research ....you must be joking

 

[Ras]

Lol...Ras..lemme tell u at this point that u r talking to an engineer here..Try avoiding saying anything that will make u a laughing stock.

While mining goes on at one side of the mines the dozers work day and night to fill up the other sides where ores were previously taken out.There are govt policies in relation to this.U just cannot take out the ores and take off.It comes as a part of the package.The surface area of the land is returned to normal condition once mining in that region.This is not something done after all the mining in that region is finished.It is a gradual process that goes on side by side.The mining companies operating in India have special Reforestation programs to address the issue.

I ll share with u a pdf that talks about some generalized processes that are followed.But ,I know,for a fact,that the processes are widely dependent on the terrain and may vary from place to place...


Low Compaction grading to enhance Reforestation

The total forest cover in India is around 20.55 % of its geographic area.Now thats quite good data for any country.Are u suggesting that mining operations are going to affect all these lands at a time???

And I have addresed the tribal issue before.So I will ask to to go through what I have said in my previous post.Dont provide lame arguments.It feels like I am talking to some high school kid and wasting my time here...

First the forest cover in India is 20.55%..it is actually only 10%.The rest is barren land nominally called "forested". Mining does not work in the idealistic way you just described here.There is a great wikipedia article about the effects of mining.As always with wiki ignore the article and read the papers the page is referring to.You might learn something.

Environmental issues with mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As your article talks about coal mining..let us see what this "harmless" type of activity can do for the environment..

http://www.imwa.info/bibliographie/13_34_001-009.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_effects_of_coal

 

[Justin Joseph]

The names says it all, and survey of tribals.............National Council on Applied Economic Research ....you must be joking

I'm not joking but you are trolling for sure.

When was the last time you visited doctor?

NCAER is supported and patronized by UNDP, World Bank, Howard University etc.

 

[Justin Joseph]

First the forest cover in India is 20.55%..it is actually only 10%.The rest is barren land nominally called "forested". Mining does not work in the idealistic way you just described here.There is a great wikipedia article about the effects of mining.As always with wiki ignore the article and read the papers the page is referring to.You might learn something.

Environmental issues with mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As your article talks about coal mining..let us see what this "harmless" type of activity can do for the environment..

http://www.imwa.info/bibliographie/13_34_001-009.pdf

Environmental effects of coal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

really???????

India?s forest cover rises to over 21% - India - The Times of India

30 pc forest cover in India by 2012

http://www.merinews.com/article/30-pc-forest-cover-in-india-by-2012/136197.shtml

India plans to double forest cover by 2020: Rediff.com Business

 

[Titanium]

I'm not joking but you are trolling for sure.

When was the last time you visited doctor?

NCAER is supported and patronized by UNDP, World Bank, Howard University etc.

So, a NGO knows all the data in the extreme backward forest, when GoI knows a squat about its cities. They are investing billions just for IDing, these two bit brahmin/bania propaganda NGO and their data taken as truth

Titanium loves you

 

[Justin Joseph]

So, a NGO knows all the data in the extreme backward forest, when GoI knows a squat about its cities. They are investing billions just for IDing, these two bit brahmin/bania propaganda NGO and their data taken as truth

Titanium loves you

What ????

Now, I realize to whom i were discussing. Even God can never make you understand anything go and hear more of zaid hamid.

 

[nForce]

First the forest cover in India is 20.55%..it is actually only 10%.The rest is barren land nominally called "forested". Mining does not work in the idealistic way you just described here.There is a great wikipedia article about the effects of mining.As always with wiki ignore the article and read the papers the page is referring to.You might learn something.

Environmental issues with mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As your article talks about coal mining..let us see what this "harmless" type of activity can do for the environment..

http://www.imwa.info/bibliographie/13_34_001-009.pdf

Environmental effects of coal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So far as the present forest cover of India is concerned,some one has already answered that.So I ll skip that part...

Now we move to the ill effects of mining...At first u decide,whether u have a problem with mining in general or mining in India..So far ,the problems that u have shown are common problems related to mining,that happen everywhere else and India is no exception....If u have a problem with that then I suggest u to shut down ur PC and do a Chris McCandless in the movie 'Into the Wild' only if u know what I mean,because ur PC runs on power generated from from either radioactive fuel or fossil fuel which are infact taken out mines only...Now dont tell me u run purely on renewable sources,I happen to know a few things about power grid systems...

The pdf that I have provided talks about open shaft mining in general with coal mining only being taken as an example..A B.Tech graduate on mining,or for that matter any knowledgeable person would not have asked such silly questions....
Now as u can see I have provided u with some solutions to some of the problems that are faced while mining.Now I assume u have the mental capacity to compute that solutions are provided only when there are problems...Now,what I have done is,I have already provided u with solutions to the problems,the very same problems which u post in answer to the solutions!!!Now that is weird...Normally solutions follow problems,its not other way around....So,I am sorry to say,but I am left with only one logical deduction,that u have understood nothing about what I was talking about...Now thats exactly why I said I dont want to talk to any high school kid in the first place................