Saudi nightmare comes true, Trump loses to Biden

[Aspen]

Lmao. Sure jen! If you wanna believe that then go ahead and do. The relations between the US and Saudi Arabia it got only stronger post-911. I don't know where you are getting your sources from but they are definitely made-up and not relieable.

I can tell you for a fact US-Saudi relations significantly deteriorated after 9/11.

 

[Titanium100]

I can tell you for a fact US-Saudi relations significantly deteriorated after 9/11.

lmao. your just trolling you can't be serious? I don't got time for this

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

What do the Saudi's have to fear?? If USA won't provide weapons.....Than KSA will buy from Russia, China or develop locally/regionally. If KSA dumps USA.....USA will lose more. Dollar was partially propped up by KSA.

Pakistan should look to reach out to KSA and GCC for more cooperation in space and weapons development.

The Saudis weren't spending hundreds of billions on these weapons deals with the US for the weapons themselves. It was basically money being spent to buy influence and 'protection'.

The Sauids and the GCC cannot afford to anger the US as the US has a lot more actual power to do damage to them than the other way around. The US simply has to lift the sanctions from Iran and you'd see the situation turn dire.

The GCC need to focus their own resources and see this particular turn of events as an eye opener. Relying on others for security is a weak strategy in the long term. They certainly have the resources to build up a good defense ecosystem.

However, I think it would be much better if they tried to focus on reducing tensions with both Iran and turkey (or at least one of the two). They have opened too many fronts simultaneously.

The Israeli front is always open simply because the Israelis are very cautious and wouldn't let a friend or foe around them move ahead, if they can help it.

 

[Aspen]

Salaam

The Saudis weren't spending hundreds of billions on these weapons deals with the US for the weapons themselves. It was basically money being spent to buy influence and 'protection'.

The Sauids and the GCC cannot afford to anger the US as the US has a lot more actual power to do damage to them than the other way around. The US simply has to lift the sanctions from Iran and you'd see the situation turn dire.

The GCC need to focus their own resources and see this particular turn of events as an eye opener. Relying on others for security is a weak strategy in the long term. They certainly have the resources to build up a good defense ecosystem.

However, I think it would be much better if they tried to focus on reducing tensions with both Iran and turkey (or at least one of the two). They have opened too many fronts simultaneously.

The Israeli front is always open simply because the Israelis are very cautious and wouldn't let a friend or foe around them move ahead, if they can help it.

Excellent analysis

 

[Titanium100]

Salaam




The Saudis weren't spending hundreds of billions on these weapons deals with the US for the weapons themselves. It was basically money being spent to buy influence and 'protection'.

The Sauids and the GCC cannot afford to anger the US as the US has a lot more actual power to do damage to them than the other way around. The US simply has to lift the sanctions from Iran and you'd see the situation turn dire.

The GCC need to focus their own resources and see this particular turn of events as an eye opener. Relying on others for security is a weak strategy in the long term. They certainly have the resources to build up a good defense ecosystem.

However, I think it would be much better if they tried to focus on reducing tensions with both Iran and turkey (or at least one of the two). They have opened too many fronts simultaneously.

The Israeli front is always open simply because the Israelis are very cautious and wouldn't let a friend or foe around them move ahead, if they can help it.

This is the problem with people who are not well verse with politics nor military realities when they share their opinions. No one can overcome Saudi Arabia militarily in the mid-east.

Any war with Saudi Arabia will quickly become massive global war because it's the heart land of Islam. Around it sits 9 allies and Together population wise they are close to 500-mio strong. Saudi, Sudan, Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Bahrain and Jordan. They are heavily armed, have the manpower and willing to fight until the last man if the 2 holy mosques is put in denger.

It's gonna be a nightmare fighting them. multiple allied forces even if they attack could perish as a consequence.

And Subnallah even the Prophet(sa) Said that the enemies of Islam will not be able to pass a district south of Medina he said the Enemy won't be able to pass there which will be the limit to how far they can go in such an operation. They will never be able to pass that zone. The enemy fielded that day upto 1-mio from 80 nations and Even the Americans themselves said Saudi arabia is 5th strongest nation in the world currently. Just because they are very diplomatic and don't show off doesn't mean they are walk in the park and to be honest quite the opposite

 

[CrazyZ]

Salaam




The Saudis weren't spending hundreds of billions on these weapons deals with the US for the weapons themselves. It was basically money being spent to buy influence and 'protection'.

The Sauids and the GCC cannot afford to anger the US as the US has a lot more actual power to do damage to them than the other way around. The US simply has to lift the sanctions from Iran and you'd see the situation turn dire.

The GCC need to focus their own resources and see this particular turn of events as an eye opener. Relying on others for security is a weak strategy in the long term. They certainly have the resources to build up a good defense ecosystem.

However, I think it would be much better if they tried to focus on reducing tensions with both Iran and turkey (or at least one of the two). They have opened too many fronts simultaneously.

The Israeli front is always open simply because the Israelis are very cautious and wouldn't let a friend or foe around them move ahead, if they can help it.

MBS tried to secure the status quo. Can't fault him for that. KSA has little to fear if USA wants to go in another direction. Trump started a new cold war with China. That changes everything from when MBS went to Washington in the beginning of Trumps term.

Some of you guys talk as if Biden will be selling F-35 to Iran. Iran will be weaker than GCC in conventional terms for the foreseeable future. Even if Biden softens the USA stance on Iran.

Instead of bickering we should look at enhancing ties with GCC where possible. If we can facilitate détente between Iran and GCC, then we should leave no stone unturned.

 

[Aspen]

MBS tried to secure the status quo. Can't fault him for that. KSA as little to fear if USA wants to go in another direction. Trump started a new cold war with China. That changes everything from when MBS went to Washington in the beginning of Trumps term.

Some of you guys talk as if Biden will be selling F-35 to Iran. Iran will be weaker than GCC in conventional terms for the foreseeable future. Even if Biden softens the USA stance on Iran.

Instead of bickering we should look at enhancing ties with GCC where possible. If we can facilitate détente between Iran and GCC, then we should leave no stone unturned.

You are looking at it wrong.

Iran does not rely on US for security. Iran is an independent player that already acts by itself. Anything US does will only make it stronger. US is already an open enemy of Iran, if they continue that, nothing changes. If US decides to lift sanctions, Iran will benefit.

It is a win-win for Iran.

I am not sure in what universe GCC is stronger than Iran, that has never been true and probably never will be true. Simply put, Saudis nor any GCC country have the balls to take on Iran in any kind of capacity.

What experience do the Arabs have? Buying slaves to fight for them in proxy wars?

You have to remember, Iranians themselves directly fought in the brutal Iran-Iraq war. Saddam is dead and Iran is still here. Iranians know how to fight a real war and they have a long-term strategy, which is why they are dominating everywhere from Yemen to Iraq to Syria to Lebanon to Gaza. They have both the strategy and the experience of a battle hardened army that can take on the triple threat US, Saudi, and Israel at the same time. Iranians have got their enemies in the region surrounded from all sides because they how to play chess better than anyone else and outmaneuver their adversaries. They are a top 5 cyber power in the world, and the top missile power in the Middle East. They shot the most expensive surveillance drone in the world out of the sky and launched strikes at Aramco with impunity. There is a reason nobody messes with them.

A lot of people here don't know that Obama signed JCPOA not because he wanted peace but because a classified CIA intelligence report concluded that a US strike on Iran's nuclear facilities would be unsuccessful due to Iran's strong missile deterrence and special hardened concrete on its nuclear facilities that could withstand any US bunker buster. Even F35 or F22 was useless for Obama. He wanted to take out Iran's nuclear facilities with a military airstrike, but he couldn't so he had to sign JCPOA instead.

Iran doesn't need anyone's planes because they guarantee their own security with their own missiles and their own people. And it is the key to their independence. No amount of F35's will save GCC when they don't have the balls to use it. Iran has the balls to use their missiles and they have demonstrated this capacity multiple times to establish a clear deterrence to make their enemies think twice. GCC knows if they hit Iran once, Iran will hit back 3x. That is the difference.

 

[H!TchHiker]

No need.

They think they are very clever. Let them face the consequences of their own actions. Let these camel jokies like Anwar Garesh (heard he is actually Indian origin) fall from grace.

Actually we are the one , fall from grace and beg them to extend there loan again ...so KSA has no need of pakistan it's rather reverse I believe...our country is more of american slave then KSA ..last I know KSA have not fight any war on behalf of usa on there land ..while we have many times and then complained that usa left us and didn't correspond out services well...being rationally relationship between them might be not that warm but again Usa will KSA as we all know due to its importance

 

[Titanium100]

You are looking at it wrong.

Iran does not rely on US for security. Iran is an independent player that already acts by itself. Anything US does will only make it stronger. US is already an open enemy of Iran, if they continue that, nothing changes. If US decides to lift sanctions, Iran will benefit.

It is a win-win for Iran.

I am not sure in what universe GCC is stronger than Iran, that has never been true and probably never will be true. Simply put, Saudis nor any GCC country have the balls to take on Iran in any kind of capacity.

What experience do the Arabs have? Buying slaves to fight for them in proxy wars?

You have to remember, Iranians themselves directly fought in the brutal Iran-Iraq war. Saddam is dead and Iran is still here. Iranians know how to fight a real war and they have a long-term strategy, which is why they are dominating everywhere from Yemen to Iraq to Syria to Lebanon to Gaza. They have both the strategy and the experience of a battle hardened army that can take on the triple threat US, Saudi, and Israel at the same time. Iranians have got their enemies in the region surrounded from all sides because they how to play chess better than anyone else and outmaneuver their adversaries. They are a top 5 cyber power in the world, and the top missile power in the Middle East. They shot the most expensive surveillance drone in the world out of the sky and launched strikes at Aramco with impunity. There is a reason nobody messes with them.

A lot of people here don't know that Obama signed JCPOA not because he wanted peace but because a classified CIA intelligence report concluded that a US strike on Iran's nuclear facilities would be unsuccessful due to Iran's strong missile deterrence and special hardened concrete on its nuclear facilities that could withstand any US bunker buster. Even F35 or F22 was useless for Obama. He wanted to take out Iran's nuclear facilities with a military airstrike, but he couldn't so he had to sign JCPOA instead.

Iran doesn't need anyone's planes because they guarantee their own security with their own missiles and their own people. And it is the key to their independence. No amount of F35's will save GCC when they don't have the balls to use it. Iran has the balls to use their missiles and they have demonstrated this capacity multiple times to establish a clear deterrence to make their enemies think twice. GCC knows if they hit Iran once, Iran will hit back 3x. That is the difference.

As I have said before Iran is alot weaker then people assume and yes the Saudi-Bloc is stronger then Iran and capable of defeating it quite comfortably and it has leverage over it as of right now.

You selectively mentioned Saddam is dead? I am sure the Iranian leaders he was fighting are long gone as well and Iraq still stands.

In Syria Iran was overcome by the rebels which forced Solemni to go to Moscow and beg Putin for intervention. They gave away Syria to Russia. The stalemate in Syria is exclusively between Turkey, Russia and the US. As for Iran it was truly overcome by the none-state actors in the first 4 years and Damascus nearly fall. They accepted to be under the Russians which debunks any independence claim you made and Putin is the defecto leader in Damascus.

In Yemen it will only dry them and it is an unwinnable civil war for them and probably an endless one because it won't end. The southern Hadi supporting Tribes will never stop and the Houthis are sieged there while the siege will eventually collapse. All Iran did was getting herself into unwinnable campaigns and actully draw haters to itself.

Iran militarily doesn't stand a chance against the Saudi-Bloc this much is common knowlegde amongst these with military knowledge.

1. They have more manpower
2. Better equipped and more heavily armed. (qualitative military edge)
3. Air superiority
4. Way more weatlhier and developed

All these 4 points mentioned goes to Saudi Arabia. Most people are not pragmatic when rating military strength and capabilities while overlooking the key elements

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

This is the problem with people who are not well verse with politics nor military realities when they share their opinions. No one can overcome Saudi Arabia militarily in the mid-east.

Any war with Saudi Arabia will quickly become massive global war because it's the heart land of Islam. Around it sits 9 allies and Together population wise they are close to 500-mio strong. Saudi, Sudan, Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Bahrain and Jordan. They are heavily armed, have the manpower and willing to fight until the last man if the 2 holy mosques is put in denger.

It's gonna be a nightmare fighting them. multiple allied forces even if they attack could perish as a consequence.

And Subnallah even the Prophet(sa) Said that the enemies of Islam will not be able to pass a district south of Medina he said the Enemy won't be able to pass there which will be the limit to how far they can go in such an operation. They will never be able to pass that zone. The enemy fielded that day upto 1-mio from 80 nations and Even the Americans themselves said Saudi arabia is 5th strongest nation in the world currently. Just because they are very diplomatic and don't show off doesn't mean they are walk in the park and to be honest quite the opposite

I certainly don't think Iran is stronger than the GCC countries or the Saudi allies. However, Iran is capable of hurting the Saudis badly if it came to direct confrontation. The GCC would do a lot as well but has a lot to loose as well.

This is why we didn't see any direct action when the Saudi oil facilities were attacked. Everyone knew where the bombs came from, regardless of who fired them from where. The order and equipment came from Iran.

In Syria the GCC was going after Asad (an Iranian ally) but because of their enmity with Turkey the focus was lost. The fight along with it.

The GCC and the Arabs are not punching according to its weight, imho. I actually think there is a lot more potential there that is untapped and when looking at the Arabs and their resources, it obviously looks like wasted potential.

Maybe you think that the Arabs, with all the resources at their disposal, can only manage whatever it is that they have managed recently in Yemen and Syria (and in other regional conflicts) but I just see that as underperforming.

Why is the talk, despite that 500 million population and trillions in GDP, resisting invasion, when the Iranians are clearly going at you from multiple sides, and not taking the hurt to the enemy?

The Iranians bombed Saudi territory, why did Saudi not respond in like? A general was killed in Iraq by the US, but nothing was done by the Arabs themselves.

I know the matters a lot more complicated but the fact remains, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. What results were achieved in Syria - where the Iranians won. The way the Yemeni war turned out, was it the desired outcome?

Point is, yes I agree that there is a lot of potential there, however, there is much to be done before it is realised.

 

[Titanium100]

Salaam




I certainly don't think Iran is stronger than the GCC countries or the Saudi allies. However, Iran is capable of hurting the Saudis badly if it came to direct confrontation. The GCC would do a lot as well but has a lot to loose as well.

This is why we didn't see any direct action when the Saudi oil facilities were attacked. Everyone knew where the bombs came from, regardless of who fired them from where. The order and equipment came from Iran.

In Syria the GCC was going after Asad (an Iranian ally) but because of their enmity with Turkey the focus was lost. The fight along with it.

The GCC and the Arabs are not punching according to its weight, imho. I actually think there is a lot more potential there that is untapped and when looking at the Arabs and their resources, it obviously looks like wasted potential.

Maybe you think that the Arabs, with all the resources at their disposal, can only manage whatever it is that they have managed recently in Yemen and Syria (and in other regional conflicts) but I just see that as underperforming.

Why is the talk, despite that 500 million population and trillions in GDP, resisting invasion, when the Iranians are clearly going at you from multiple sides, and not taking the hurt to the enemy?

The Iranians bombed Saudi territory, why did Saudi not respond in like? A general was killed in Iraq by the US, but nothing was done by the Arabs themselves.

I know the matters a lot more complicated but the fact remains, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. What results were achieved in Syria - where the Iranians won. The way the Yemeni war turned out, was it the desired outcome?

Point is, yes I agree that there is a lot of potential there, however, there is much to be done before it is realised.

The GCC never supported the struggle against Assad it was just lip-service they supported Assad from the beginning to the end. They wanted the uprising ended. They support Assad.

Iran didn't win a thing in Syria nor achieved it's objectives. It gave away controll to the russians who in return could only safe 60% and keep Assad in office. He survived but not won. It's partitioned in 3 parts and stalemate currently. This war is not over and This will go on for decades to come imo.

You said they hit? Who is under siege in Yemen? and starved out? The Houthis ofcourse! Yemen is invaded!

Iran never claimed responbility but some none-state actors claimed it and there was alot of diplomatic effort from the EU and US to stop it from happening because nobody wants such a big conflict which could spread further. That is the only reason it didn't happen the major conflict!

Militarily if they truly put to their mind they can invade and defeat it on it's soil. Just like how the Armenians were thinking you are not gonna come yada yada but once they were there it was kinda of over. They have the capabilities to defeat them and inflict damage and take over half of the country but it will come under huge losses then pause and continue again until full conquering.

 

[Vapnope]

Biden needs India and USA just like any other president of USA. The deals may vary but anyone thinking that Biden will make an enemy out of two cash cows doesnt understand state's craft. Kashmir and Palestine actually give US a leverage over many countries hence these issues will continue to be the issues.

In the end, US wants money and control over all countries to maintain their top spot and Biden will do everything to ensure it.

 

[TNT]

We allbeen analyzing biden victory in terms of india Pakistan. Reality is that the biggest shock is in GCC. Lets see what happens. Interesting times ahead.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

GCC will play all sides. We have to adapt, isolation will get us nowhere. We should continue to work with GCC in areas of mutual interests.

We need to play cool. No need to "offer" our services anymore at the first opportunity. Let them come to us, negotiate with strength.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

So all the Israeli recognition came to nothing? Lol

Biden will restore Iranian deal, Israel got its recognition, Pakistan got pissed off with GCC.... what these camel jokies got in return?

They got women drivers and a never-ending war with houthis for their trouble.

Take your conspiracy theories somewhere else.

It's you who is suggesting ksa will get sanctioned by USA. Chill dude. Dems are less overtly gushing towards ksa, but they're still bhai bhai with them.