Saudi crown prince: Israel and Saudi Arabia moving closer to normalization ‘every day’

[A Voice of Reason]

There is nothing to gain from Israel. Look at Egypt and Jordan. Have peace treaties and both countries are struggling with economy and lack of resources.

Leaving aside all the chest thumping and foaming at the mouth of much of this thread, the above quote deserves a closer look.

Egypt and Jordan have a peace with Israel but it is a cold peace. Obstacles and opposition abound.

It really has only been since the Abraham Accords were signed that these two countries have woken up, saw the hundreds of millions and now Billions of USD in trade with the UAE (heavily in UAE's favour I might add) that they started to publicly debate whether they too should greatly ramp up trade with Israel.

Egypt for instance makes a lot of money liquifying Israeli gas and selling it to Europe. Up till recently it could only resell the gas rather than using it domestically. Because many of the citizens get emotionally stirred up and the government does not want to be see as too far from public sentiment. The populace pays higher electricity prices of course. Look at the opposition in Jordan to importing Israeli gas and water, even though it's an existential crisis that is being solved. Look at the internal Jordanian opposition to the UAE sponsored Jordan-Israel water-for-solar electricity project.

In summary, these countries have had limited economic dividends from peace because that is the peace they, not Israel, chose.

As far as Pakistan goes, just look over the eastern border. Israel, including the Israeli tech, is changing Indian agriculture. It is helping India with water management, food security, military equipment (including made in India collaborations), cyber defence, biotechnology, and much more.

The UAE also prospers in the same way. It engaged Israel wholeheartedly. Believe it or not Israelis are being made very welcome in the KSA well before any official relations. It bodes well for the level of trade and prosperity for if and when formal Normalization takes place.

A theoretical peace with Pakistan would also likely be much the same. It will be up to Pakistan to decide on the level of engagement it wishes to persue.

The KSA is not eyeing peace with Israel out of anything by clear eyed self interest. It can see potential that alas, a lot of Pakistanis do not. Not even when they look across their Eastern border.

Egypt and Jordan have, till now, been largely left behind as per their choice.

 

[HttpError]

The billion dollar question. The elephant in the room. What will Pakistani generals do when KSA decides to recognise Israel? After all, KSA has a lot of influence on many domestic and foreign policies in Pakistan.

PS. This question is strictly for Pakistani members.

We all know the answer to this "million dollar" question. Please don't embarrass ourselves at the world stage but requesting a real answer for this.

 

[Dalit]

Leaving aside all the chest thumping and foaming at the mouth of much of this thread, the above quote deserves a closer look.

Egypt and Jordan have a peace with Israel but it is a cold peace. Obstacles and opposition abound.

It really has only been since the Abraham Accords were signed that these two countries have woken up, saw the hundreds of millions and now Billions of USD in trade with the UAE (heavily in UAE's favour I might add) that they started to publicly debate whether they too should greatly ramp up trade with Israel.

Egypt for instance makes a lot of money liquifying Israeli gas and selling it to Europe. Up till recently it could only resell the gas rather than using it domestically. Because many of the citizens get emotionally stirred up and the government does not want to be see as too far from public sentiment. The populace pays higher electricity prices of course. Look at the opposition in Jordan to importing Israeli gas and water, even though it's an existential crisis that is being solved. Look at the internal Jordanian opposition to the UAE sponsored Jordan-Israel water-for-solar electricity project.

In summary, these countries have had limited economic dividends from peace because that is the peace they, not Israel, chose.

As far as Pakistan goes, just look over the eastern border. Israel, including the Israeli tech, is changing Indian agriculture. It is helping India with water management, food security, military equipment (including made in India collaborations), cyber defence, biotechnology, and much more.

The UAE also prospers in the same way. It engaged Israel wholeheartedly. Believe it or not Israelis are being made very welcome in the KSA well before any official relations. It bodes well for the level of trade and prosperity for if and when formal Normalization takes place.

A theoretical peace with Pakistan would also likely be much the same. It will be up to Pakistan to decide on the level of engagement it wishes to persue.

The KSA is not eyeing peace with Israel out of anything by clear eyed self interest. It can see potential that alas, a lot of Pakistanis do not. Not even when they look across their Eastern border.

Egypt and Jordan have, till now, been largely left behind as per their choice.

If Pakistan recognises Israel, how will Israel tango between India and Pakistan?

Pakistani and Indian relations aren't improving anytime soon.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Allah (swt) gave Nuclear weapons to Pakistan and Pakistan ONLY for a reason.

Allah (swt) has created Pakistan to protect the Muslims and Islam.

It does not matter if KSA or any other Islamic nation recognizes Israel or not.

Pakistan will always be the last man standing.

 

[tower9]

ISRAEL have every right to exist. Palestinians should make peace.

Yeaaaah NO

 

[A Voice of Reason]

If Pakistan recognises Israel, how will Israel tango between India and Pakistan?

Pakistani and Indian relations aren't improving anytime soon.

That is an excellent question. My guess is that the theoretical tango with Pakistan will be everything except for military related.

You can see similar issues with Azerbaijan/Armenia and Turkey/Greece where one side has a military relationship with Israel and the other would like to or in Turkey's case would like to once again have it.

Having said all that, in alternate universe if Pakistan and Pakistanis were to miraculously try and enthusiastically make up for 70 years of lost time and suddenly Israelis are made welcome, Pakistan stands to gain almost all the things India is and has been gaining over the last 20+ years since it saw the light. Just in water management and Arid/desert agriculture alone the potential is enormous. Imagine Pak farmers getting up to 10 times the income from their farms and orchards, using much less water and fertilizer. Imagine your cows giving 5 times as much milk. Etc... all this is either happening or in the works for hundreds of thousands of Indian farmers. Do Pak farmers deserve less?

And you never know, an amazing, long term relationship with Pakistan might just make Israel have to think more carefully on what it collaborates militarily with India.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

If Pakistan recognises Israel, how will Israel tango between India and Pakistan?

Pakistani and Indian relations aren't improving anytime soon.

Indians are pagans.

So Jews and Christians will always support Pakistan over India.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Indians are pagans.

So Jews and Christians will always support Pakistan over India.

Lol Jews and Christians are already supports pagans India to counter China in which world do you living here

 

[A Voice of Reason]

Indians are pagans.

So Jews and Christians will always support Pakistan over India.

You might be surprised, Abdul.

You see these, um, pagans and Jews are both non proselytizing religions/people. This means that they are not seen as a threat to each other.

In addition while there have been a few comparatively good times over the many centuries in Muslim lands for Jews, at least compared to Christian lands, (and at least good as far as Dhimmi status can be), this can be compared to over 2,000 years of (almost) perfect record of the good treatment by Hindus of the few Jews who occassionaly washed up on the sub-continent.

Most of all though, Israel does not generally conduct its foreign policy based on the religion of the other countries. Rather it tends to consider realpolitik. If one country extends a hand of friendship and the other a fist of enmity guess where Israeli relations tends to flourish?

Currently tens of thousands of young Israelis backpack through India. They have been doing this for 40 years. And Indians are tolerant and generally put up with the follies some of these youngsters alas have been known to get up to. When Israelis can tour Pakistan like they can India or the UAE for that matter, then Pakisan might find Israel a little more supportive.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

No Way.

Pakistan is the last man standing to defend the Muslims.

Allah (swt) gave nukes to Pakistan and Pakistan only for a reason.

You got to be kidding me. Let Saudi Arabia defend the Ummah.

If Israel accepts two state solution and make Jerusalem an international city, then Saudi Arabia is wise to recognize Israel.

The Middle East needs peace now. The Middle East has suffered enough now.

The Iraq war (2003), Syrian civil war, Yemen civil war, Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Its time to give peace a chance now. The world deserves it.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

You got to be kidding me. Let Saudi Arabia defend the Ummah.

If Israel accepts two state solution and make Jerusalem an international city, then Saudi Arabia is wise to recognize Israel.

The Middle East needs peace now. The Middle East has suffered enough now.

The Iraq war (2003), Syrian civil war, Yemen civil war, Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Its time to give peace a chance now. The world deserves it.

Why should Palestinians compromise for peace?

We will get peace through strength.

We have more nukes than Israel.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Why should Palestinians compromise for peace?

We will get peace through strength.

We have more nukes than Israel.

USA supports Israel, why ruin the future generations of the Muslim Ummah?

I wouldn't be surprised if Saudi Arabia recognizes Israel if two state solution is accepted.

Palestinians are also to be blamed for their own stupidity.

 

[Falcon29]

Egypt and Jordan have a peace with Israel but it is a cold peace. Obstacles and opposition abound.

That's a strange spin. It's a peace treaty. Requiring more commitment and security guarantees than whatever the normalization is that is talked about here. Egypt and Jordan have to oblige by the conditions of the peace treaty which they have done for decades.

Clearly, then, Palestinian cause is not holding back anything. If Israel's neighbors made such huge concessions and are facing such obstacles.

It really has only been since the Abraham Accords were signed that these two countries have woken up, saw the hundreds of millions and now Billions of USD in trade with the UAE (heavily in UAE's favour I might add) that they started to publicly debate whether they too should greatly ramp up trade with Israel.

They don't need trade with Israel. Lack of trade with Israel isn't what's holding them back. Israel's existence and hegemony over the region is. Mind you, both these nations have trade with Israel.

Egypt for instance makes a lot of money liquifying Israeli gas and selling it to Europe.

And? It has a deal with the EU. The gas is stolen from Palestinian fields. Yet the inflation rate is through the roof in Egypt.

Up till recently it could only resell the gas rather than using it domestically. Because many of the citizens get emotionally stirred up and the government does not want to be see as too far from public sentiment. The populace pays higher electricity prices of course.

Post your source. Egypt has its own gas field as well which will enter production later this year.

Israel continues to support Ethiopian dam project and the govt in Ethiopia so that Egypt will become water scarce in a year or two. That's what Egypt got for recognizing Israel.

In summary, these countries have had limited economic dividends from peace because that is the peace they, not Israel, chose.

So contrary to what the pro-Israel bots are mentioning on the thread, recognizing Israel brings no gain. Actually brings harm to your country instead.

You are mistaken if you think they needed a treaty with Israel. Israel is nothing without the US. It needed a major airlift by the US to arm itself in the 73 war. It needs US sanctions and unparalleled US support. Even a clause to intervene militarily on behalf of Israel. These countries have much more to gain if they destroy the Israeli hegemony over the region. There's nothing that Israel can offer to them.

It's Israel that gains from it. As it seeks the final nail into the coffin against the Palestinian cause. And it will continue to threaten and bully it's neighbors.

The UAE also prospers in the same way. It engaged Israel wholeheartedly.

UAE is not prospering because of Israel. UAE just happened to join BRICS too. Tells you something about their future outlook. It's not even remotely dependent on Israel.

 

[عقاب]

The guy talks similar to Pakistani property dealers

 

[Trench Broom]

Disagree with you, ISrael through their proxies has held back the Middle East. HWat you fools forget today is that it is Palestine today and Jordan, Syria, Iraq tomorrow. That have already started softening up Syria and Iraq for colonisation. as for Jordan it is well controlled and ready for assimilation.

Yes, you're always the victims and it's never your fault. It was Israel that started Iran V Iraq war and Israel that started Houthi/Yemen war and Israel that started the Lebanese civil war and Israel that started Syria civil war and Israel that made Egypt have a socialist economy based on subsidies and Israel that made the Arabs rely solely on oil and not bother developing in any other ways. It must also be Israel to blame for Pakistan being a stagnant no-mark of a country that's always teetering on the bring of collapse LOL

Israel wants submission. No self respecting nor proud nation will be submissive to them. General population of region , Arabs, Turks, and Iranians, are not submissive to Israel. Their govts are, including Iranian one, which gets help by usa and Russia in region is given tacit approval to destabilize gulf region, and is ordered to keep Palestine arena quiet. Iran cannot control Hamas, however, so military resistance continues. If Iran could control Hamas, then US/Israel would make clear to Iran to subdue them too.

There is nothing to gain from Israel. Look at Egypt and Jordan. Have peace treaties and both countries are struggling with economy and lack of resources. Only these Hindu radicals try to suggest otherwise due to their blind polytheist worship which extends to worships of Jewish master(to them) race.


"Arabs are fed up with them":


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You are correct that Israel will require your surrender, of course. This is what happens when you're militarily defeated. Just as the Armenians recently. You always blab about Iran for some reason. I realise you are angry with them for not following through on their "death to Israel" knuckle dragging performative nonsense that they come out with. I realise you're desperate for them to do something and you feel betrayed that they won't go to war on your behalf. You should be angry with Hamas who promised you "death to Israel" and instead delivered you a worse situation in Gaza than when Israel was controlling it. Jordan and Egypt's problems are they didn't bother to build their economies. Lazy Arabs. They created a peace with Israel on paper, not in actuality. Hence why Israel can't help them. Especially that lot in Jordan who are hostage to the 'palestinian' entity which cause trouble in every country they reside in.