Saudi Arabia's top cleric says Iranians are 'not Muslims'

[thepakistani]

Your entire knowledge about Shia is false .... Basic pillars of Islam respected and followed by Shia are Tawhid, Prophethood, Judgment day, Imamat and Justice .. all base on Islamic teaching of prophet and Quran. for example on Mutta :
View attachment 332102
Or on Taqiya:

16:106

Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;​

So instead of Takfiring others read your books and Quran first ...

Now I've got a question from you true Muslim, the prophet of Islam says:

1: It is probable that I will be called soon, and I will respond. So I leave behind me two weighty (very worthy and important) things: the Book of Allah (the Qur'an), which is a string stretched from the heaven to the earth; and my progeny, my ahl al-bayt. Verily Allah, the Merciful, the Aware, has informed me that these two will never be separated from each other until they meet me at the Fountain of Abundance (the Hawdh of Kawthar, a spring in heaven). Therefore, be careful how you treat these two in my absence."​

2: “Anyone who dies while he has not recognized his Imam has died a pagan death.”
​

Then who is your Imam?

My dear you have all the rights to say what you believe and like. Facts are undeniably true and evident. There is nothing in war of words, i never wanted to indulge in knowledge less and fact less debates.
Thank you.

 

[thepakistani]

Now listen the truth.

your islam is already lost, may be it is in kashmir which is held by the Indians.

you all should go for Ghawz e Hind to find ISLAM if you have balls.

your knowledge about ISLAM is too weak.

btw your mufti will retire soon since he too do not know Islam.

Dear ball seaker, you would find your desired water. ALHAMDOLLILAH we are defeating all enemies of Islam already. GAZWATULHIND's1st win in shape of zarb e azb. This was 2nd wave in shape of ttp after black water etc. We well know the alliance's aginst us....by the way altaf hussain called usa india iran and Israel aginst us. Agay agay dekhiay hotta heay kia jan e man.

 

[raptor22]

My dear you have all the rights to say what you believe and like. Facts are undeniably true and evident. There is nothing in war of words, i never wanted to indulge in knowledge less and fact less debates.
Thank you.

No unlike what you said there is lots of things in war of words because you clearly stated this:

"shiat are truly opposite that of the ISLAM of Muhammad Rasool Allah salallah ho wasalim."​

What does it mean?now we are opposing the prophet? what is the next one , we are infidel?

​

Actually you can't go around saying these things against people and expect them to remain calm So from now on either don't make knowledge less and fact less comments about people religion or have audacity to engage in a real discussion .... because Shia has suffered a lot from these types of thought throughout the history so simply it's not about having rights to say whatever you believe and like but mostly about spreading sectarian mindsets that has put the entire region on fire ...
So watch out your wordings....

 

[Hack-Hook]

Arabs ruled almost all of Central Asia for several centuries. Large Turkic communities were converted at the hands of Arabs back then (naturally) as did everyone from Portugal in the West to Xinjiang in the East. As far as trade and cultural exchanges, Arabs were pioneers on that front.

Look how Arabs spread Islam to South East Asia. Largely through trade and cultural exchanges and to a smaller degree settlements. Similarly the first mosques outside of Arabia/Arab world were built by Arab traders in Western and Southern India. Same story in Sub-Saharan Africa. It were the mostly Arab Sufis and "saints" who spread Islam to South Asia gradually as well. Not any Mughals who only ruled parts of South Asia.

I hope you realize that modern-day Turks (as in citizens of Turkey) have very little Central Asian/Turkic ancestry. This has been proven by virtually every DNA test that I have seen. They are much closer to Arabs, Caucasians and Iranians than to Central Asian Turkic populations genetically. So not something that I have invented.

You do not know anything about the religious history of Arabia or the Arab world. There were large Christian and Jewish kingdoms in Arabia centuries before Islam. As for paganism those were followers of ancient pre-Abrahamic Semitic religions who are the oldest recorded religions and which were followed from Egypt in the West to Iraq in the North and Yemen in the South. More or less the same ancient deities were followed.

As for Semitic religions the 3 Abrahamic religions are Semitic religions and native religions of ours. Also Zoroastrianism is not an monotheistic religion but rather a dualistic one. In such a case a few of those ancient pre-Abrahamic religions are monotheistic too.

Well when you went and really understood Zoroastrianism l'll continue the discussion with you . you don't even knew what's Ahreman and then you dare call Zoroastrianism a dualistic one. Well let me enlighten you if Zoroastarism are not a monotheistic religion then Islam is also not a monotheistic religion.

And those semitic pre-islamic religion were nothing but Idol worshiping and were followed by the majority of Arabs from peninsula before the rise of Islam so there USA good chance that grand mufti ancestors were idol worshippers.

By the way from were that rullled central Asia for centuries come ? Arab ruled Iran from 634 till 820
Tahirid dynasty (820–872)

Saffarid dynasty (861–1003)

Samanid dynasty (819–999)

Ziyarid dynasty (928–1043)

Buyid dynasty (934–1062)

 

[Max]

its new wave of shit slinging contest between saudi and iranian regimes..

 

[RoadRunner401]

Great, people searching the deep space while Muslims fight about whose whistle blow louder

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Luffy 500]

Good reply by the grand mufti. Iran always gets away with good propaganda against the saudis. But its always they (Iran) who draw the first blood as in this case . The Iranians know that sunnis around the world are ignorant about their religion and highly gullible and that many sunnis have justifiable resentment of the Saudi government and king. SO iranians and their western allies use this resentment to attack islam subtly under the garb of attacking "wahabism" and Saudis. Anti-"wahabi" jargons are simply attack on Islam and nothing else.


Never mind the fact that there is no such thing as "wahabis" , muslim should realize that what is being attacked in the name of attacking "wahabism" and saudi arabia is nothing but the very fundamental creed of Islam. Modesty , Hijab , Niqab , Beards , Hudood laws , inheritance laws , polygamy , prohibition of free mixing and music , prohibition of alcohol, marriage laws , divorce laws etc etc are NOT just "wahabi" doctrines BUT very basic Islamic doctrines and Part and parcel of islam.


Check this Alzazerra debate where editor of one of the most prominent news paper of France , Renaud Girard is continuously bashing "wahabism" and hanbali school in an attempt to defend the french bigotry against muslims. He is saying its all fault of "wahabism" and Hanbalites as he puts it. According to him mainstream orthodox Islam = "Wahabism" = Militancy= Terrorism. That is the line of argument that is being used now by the west and many gullible muslims are ignorantly buying it and this is abundantly clear in social networking sites including this forum. But Renaud Girard considers Shiaism to be "very good" and "enlightening" while Hanifi, Shafi , Maliki schools are still "problematic" ( Note- there is 0 difference between Hanbali/ "wahabi" and the other 3 sunni schools when it comes to the basic pillars and tenets of islam). @Apprentice @alarabi @Decisive Storm @Suff Shikan Check this ALzazerra interview if you have time.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes...grated-french-secularism-160829190347592.html

Virulent anti- "wahabism" is just euphemism for anti-islamic bigotry and direct attack on Islam .


As for whether shias are muslim or not , well NOT all shais are kafir. There is a spectrum within shiaism and many within that spectrum falls outside the fold of islam. Listen to these two famous contemporary sunni scholars:

People should look into what Khomeini (the father of modern iran) wrote in his book about the sahabas , sunni islamic creed and the very basic islamic concept of tawhid and then decide whether Khomeini's ilk has anything to do with islam or not. So yeah when it comes to the iranians leadership and Khomeini's ilk , the Saudi Mufti is absolutely right.

Great, people searching the deep space while muslims fight about whose whistle blow louder

All sunni empires and caliphates including the ottoman caliphate had similar stance as this saudi cleric against people who revile the beloved companions and wives of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). The companions of the prophet are our role models and the wives of the prophet has the elevated status of mothers of the muslims. One of the central creed of twelver shias (Raafidis) is based on reviling such beloved and respected islamic figures and personalities. Ottomans didn't only defend muslim lands from the jews and the christians but also from the safavids who were worse than fatimids , whose treachery against the muslims are well documented. Remember Iran used to be part of the sunni muslim world before these safavids committed a GENOCIDE.

This is what Erdogan has to say about Shias. You should praise Allah (swt) for granting you such a good leader who understands what rafidis are:

 

[Takaavar]

They are the sons of Magi, Al Majoos

Being the sons of the Magi would be much better than being the sons of child-killer pagans, I suppose

"Indeed; no resemblance between Islam of Iranians & most Muslims & bigoted extremism that Wahhabi top cleric & Saudi terror masters preach", Iran Foreign Minister Zarif tweeted.

 

[Takaavar]

What are you talking about? Ever seen a map of the Umayyad Caliphate that was the 4th largest empire in human history and by far the largest Caliphate in history? Or the Rashidun or Abbasid caliphates? It stretched from Southern France to Xinjiang and covered half of modern-day Turkey and much of Central Asia.

BTW he was talking about your leadership, the same leadership who the day previously made similar comments out of nowhere.

Let me repeat myself.

The ancestors of Saudi Arabians, including virtually every other Arabs, were a mixture of Christians (Arabs were the first Christians on the planet outside of a tiny Jewish following), followers of Judaism (the first non-Hebrew followers of Judaism were Arabs) and believers of various ancient pre-Abrahamic Semitic religions. For instance some of the oldest churches and church ruins have been found in modern-day KSA. Google "Jubail Church". A church from the 4th century. Several Christian "saints" originated from Arabia as well. In what is modern-day KSA there existed numerous Christian and Jewish pre-Islamic kingdoms as well.

A large part of the events in the Torah and Bible take place in Arabia.

Anyway what you refer to as paganism are those various ancient pre-Abrahamic Semitic religions that predate the 3 Abrahamic religions. Have in mind that Judaism, Christianity and Islam themselves are Semitic (Abrahamic) religions. They are native religions of ours.



They are obsessed about the almost 500 million Arabs so what do you honestly expect? Notice how most of them ignore the fact that the Iranian leadership were the first ones to make such kind of comments. They even went a step further and talked nonsense about how KSA deliberately killed pilgrims last year. Mind you it were their religious leader who did that who also happens to be the head of state. The Grand Mufti just replied to their statements. Anyway both such statements are childish.

Yes, and Arabian idols were being worshiped by Persians and martians.

Lol that you failed to mention Zoroasstrian Arabs, and called Jewish Arabians to be of Arab origin while there is no evidence of that.

Even if we say Iranians are not muslims, they have ancestry of being Persian.

But If we say Saudi Arabis are not Muslims then what have they got to boast about?

Eating lizards and killing daughters bro

 

[Takaavar]

All sunni empires and caliphates including the ottoman caliphate had similar stance as this saudi cleric against people who revile the companions and wife of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Ottomans didn't only defend muslim lands from the jews and the christians but also from the safavids who were worse than fatimids , whose treachery against the muslims are well documented. Remember Iran used to be part of the sunni muslim world before these safavids committed a GENOCIDE.

I thought it was the Ottomans who were particularly good at doing genocide and stuff?

 

[Al-Andalus]

Yes, and Arabian idols were being worshiped by Persians and martians.

Lol that you failed to mention Zoroasstrian Arabs, and called Jewish Arabians to be of Arab origin while there is no evidence of that.


Eating lizards and killing daughters bro

An Arab religion has been worshipped by Farsis for the past 1400 years indeed. As for ancient pre-Abrahamic (Semitic themselves) Semitic religions they indeed were worshipped by almost the entire MENA region. Of course I do not expect an illiterate Farsi to understand this despite those religions having influenced you profoundly as Arabs did after the Arab Muslim conquest of Persia and other Semites did LONG before those conquests.

Yes, Jewish Arab Kingdoms in modern-day Hijaz, Yemen etc. were not of Arab origin, lol.

As for pagan Zoroastrians, no Arabs followed such paganism. No single evidence of this.

When Arabia (second longest inhabited place on the planet outside of Eastern Africa) had been inhabited by humans for millennia upon millennia Iran was a wasteland devoid of any human habitation.

Better to eat lizards who only eat plants (eaten by a tiny minority of Arabs in 1 region of Arabia - Najd - even described in Ahadith) than eating cow brain and leaving dead bodies to be eaten by birds and other animals in the open. Let alone other barbaric practices. Greeks, another of your many conquerors, spoke openly about your barbarism.
At least Arabs had several queens, one of the oldest and most famous queens in history, being the Queen of Sheba. Speaking about Arab cuisine, this cuisine is a million times more widespread and famous than Iranian as well as much more diverse. As for infanticide, this was practiced by a tiny minority, in fact there is no single historical evidence of this (every historian will tell you this) ever taking place and besides of that this practice is rumored to be practiced in most parts of the world back then. In fact it is practiced by numerous people in India and elsewhere to this very day for example.

As for that dumb and ignorant Indian below me, he seems not to know (of course not when he appears to be illiterate) that the Arab world is the cradle of civilization and that the Arab world, including Arabia, is home to the oldest cities and civilizations known to mankind. Aside from being the oldest inhabited region of the world outside of Eastern Africa.

And let us forget about the fact that Islam and Arab Islamic empires legacy and influence is much, much greater than any Iranian legacy in the first place. No need to elaborate more on this as any comparison is laughable to make.

@Decisive Storm @alarabi

 

[alarabi]

Yes, and Arabian idols were being worshiped by Persians and martians.

Lol that you failed to mention Zoroasstrian Arabs, and called Jewish Arabians to be of Arab origin while there is no evidence of that.


Eating lizards and killing daughters bro

But your Ayatollahs are preaching for child molestation and many of them are pedophiles.
I'm not certain whether it's something you inherited from Farsi heritage or your Ayatollahs fabricated some Hadiths.

 

[Takaavar]

An Arab religion has been worshipped by Farsis for the past 1400 years indeed. As for ancient pre-Abrahamic (Semitic themselves) Semitic religions they indeed were worshipped by almost the entire MENA region. Of course I do not expect an illiterate Farsi to understand this despite those religions having influenced you profoundly as Arabs did after the Arab Muslim conquest of Persia and other Semites did LONG before those conquests.

Yes, Jewish Arab Kingdoms in modern-day Hijaz, Yemen etc. were not of Arab origin, lol.

As for pagan Zoroastrians, no Arabs followed such paganism. No single evidence of this.

When Arabia (second longest inhabited place on the planet outside of Eastern Africa) had been inhabited by humans for millennia upon millennia Iran was a wasteland devoid of any human habitation.

Better to eat lizards who only eat plants (eaten by a tiny minority of Arabs in 1 region of Arabia - Najd - even described in Ahadith) than eating cow brain and leaving dead bodies to be eaten by birds and other animals in the open. Let alone other barbaric practices. Greeks, another of your many conquerors, spoke openly about your barbarism.
At least Arabs had several queens, one of the oldest and most famous queens in history, being the Queen of Sheba. Speaking about Arab cuisine, this cuisine is a million times more widespread and famous than Iranian as well as much more diverse. As for infanticide, this was practiced by a tiny minority, in fact there is no single historical evidence of this (every historian will tell you this) ever taking place and besides of that this practice is rumored to be practiced in most parts of the world back then. In fact it is practiced by numerous people in India and elsewhere to this very day for example.

As for that dumb and ignorant Indian below me, he seems not to know (of course not when he appears to be illiterate) that the Arab world is the cradle of civilization and that the Arab world, including Arabia, is home to the oldest cities and civilizations known to mankind. Aside from being the oldest inhabited region of the world outside of Eastern Africa.

And let us forget about the fact that Islam and Arab Islamic empires legacy and influence is much, much greater than any Iranian legacy in the first place. No need to elaborate more on this as any comparison is laughable to make.

@Decisive Storm @alarabi

Blah blah blah.
Iran is a rich civillization and everyone knows it. Don't try to challenge us.
There have benn many prominent Iranophile scholars even in US. What about you? Don't want to make racist comments but the name of your people is considered by many civilized people to be disgrace to humanity. Your people have done things and are doing things which can only done by you if we exclude Mongols and wild animals.

But your Ayatollahs are preaching for child molestation and many of them are pedophiles.
I'm not certain whether it's something you inherited from Farsi heritage or your Ayatollahs fabricated some Hadiths.

That's the first time I see such things.
But even pedophilia is better than having for or a dozen wives which reminds me of certain mammals on Discovery Channel

Forgot this:

An Arab religion has been worshipped by Farsis for the past 1400 years indeed.

So Americans and half of the world are also "worshipping" an Hebrew/Israeli religion

You even don't understand what the purpose of religion is.

 

[ای ایران]

An Arab religion has been worshipped by Farsis for the past 1400 years indeed.

What religion would that be?

Are you saying that Islam is made up by Arabs and isnt divine revelation from God?

 

[Hack-Hook]

An Arab religion has been worshipped by Farsis for the past 1400 years indeed. As for ancient pre-Abrahamic (Semitic themselves) Semitic religions they indeed were worshipped by almost the entire MENA region. Of course I do not expect an illiterate Farsi to understand this despite those religions having influenced you profoundly as Arabs did after the Arab Muslim conquest of Persia and other Semites did LONG before those conquests.

Yes, Jewish Arab Kingdoms in modern-day Hijaz, Yemen etc. were not of Arab origin, lol.

As for pagan Zoroastrians, no Arabs followed such paganism. No single evidence of this.

When Arabia (second longest inhabited place on the planet outside of Eastern Africa) had been inhabited by humans for millennia upon millennia Iran was a wasteland devoid of any human habitation.

Better to eat lizards who only eat plants (eaten by a tiny minority of Arabs in 1 region of Arabia - Najd - even described in Ahadith) than eating cow brain and leaving dead bodies to be eaten by birds and other animals in the open. Let alone other barbaric practices. Greeks, another of your many conquerors, spoke openly about your barbarism.
At least Arabs had several queens, one of the oldest and most famous queens in history, being the Queen of Sheba. Speaking about Arab cuisine, this cuisine is a million times more widespread and famous than Iranian as well as much more diverse. As for infanticide, this was practiced by a tiny minority, in fact there is no single historical evidence of this (every historian will tell you this) ever taking place and besides of that this practice is rumored to be practiced in most parts of the world back then. In fact it is practiced by numerous people in India and elsewhere to this very day for example.

As for that dumb and ignorant Indian below me, he seems not to know (of course not when he appears to be illiterate) that the Arab world is the cradle of civilization and that the Arab world, including Arabia, is home to the oldest cities and civilizations known to mankind. Aside from being the oldest inhabited region of the world outside of Eastern Africa.

And let us forget about the fact that Islam and Arab Islamic empires legacy and influence is much, much greater than any Iranian legacy in the first place. No need to elaborate more on this as any comparison is laughable to make.

@Decisive Storm @alarabi

you made my day by that post , do you knew at the dawn of Islam in MENA region only in Arabian peninsula they were worshiping Idols.

and yes in Arabian Peninsula (except the Jewish minority and the people who lived in Iran and Roman empire border) they were considered monotheism and monotheistic religion such as Zoroastrian as paganism but worshiping Idols and torturing people for denouncing those idols, were sign of advancement and..

suggest you go look at what happened to the sahabeh at the dawn of Islam. if its hard for you go and read Quran ,t will explain the situation at that time very clearly.

and words such as Arab Religion make any muslim doubt if you even knew the basic about Islam