Saudi Arabia’s - Arab Spring, at Last

[mkiyani]

If the citizen of KSA are happy with reforms done by the Prince than i don't why people are complaining.. Anti-corruption is a good thing it will stop others also.. KSA will become rich and will grow.. People should stop interfering in their internal matters.. every country has the right to change laws and make new one.. hope he focuses on economy.. more trade with countries like Pakistan china and so on..

 

[jian-10]

If the citizen of KSA are happy with reforms done by the Prince than i don't why people are complaining.. Anti-corruption is a good thing it will stop others also.. KSA will become rich and will grow.. People should stop interfering in their internal matters.. every country has the right to change laws and make new one.. hope he focuses on economy.. more trade with countries like Pakistan china and so on..

you're correct that it's up to the citizens of the country to determine their future without outside interference, but Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive countries on Earth and any form of dissent is viciously crushed. How do we know what the people of Saudi Arabia wants when they fear being sentenced to death if they opposed the Kingdom?

Also, once again the US corporate media is nothing but a mouthpiece for the US Empire. Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive regimes on Earth, but the corporate media will praise them any chance they can if there is the tinniest glimmer of some reform. Contrast that with how they report and keep repeating human rights abuses by regimes deemed hostile to the US empire and Israel.

 

[mkiyani]

you're correct that it's up to the citizens of the country to determine their future without outside interference, but Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive countries on Earth and any form of dissent is viciously crushed. How do we know what the people of Saudi Arabia wants when they fear being sentenced to death if they opposed the Kingdom?

Also, once again the US corporate media is nothing but a mouthpiece for the US Empire. Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive regimes on Earth, but the corporate media will praise them any chance they can if there is the tinniest glimmer of some reform. Contrast that with how they report and keep repeating human rights abuses by regimes deemed hostile to the US empire and Israel.

You are correct.. But do you know the power of people if only if they unite and agree to overthrow any power in control.. its the people who have to unite and decide what conditions or environment they want live in and also balance of power should also be decided by them the citizen of country not by outsiders.. i know what u mean still its people who will change or shift the power balance and so on .. Everyone knows about the mistreatment but still they don't unite and do something.. People are happy so thats y they dont raise any concern and they are with government decision but even if small minority are not happy they can raise their concern from outside the country where most of them live..

 

[Falcon29]

For that to happen the current Qatari regime must change their stance on numerous front. First of all they need to stop undermining the GCC and siding against their own flesh and blood (fellow Arabs) for the sake of foreigners. They should stop their double play as well. They should stop supporting MB and other similar political groups when there is no democracy or freedom of speech in Qatar and when no opposition (whether Islamic or non-Islamic) is tolerated. They should stop arming militant groups in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq and elsewhere who are doing nothing good but weakening Arab states. They should stop trying to act like some kind of savior of the anti-establishment while they are an absolute monarchy. They should stop trying to pretend that they are at the forefront of the "Islamic struggle" when they are one of the closest if not the closest ally of the West and for 20 + years have been hosting the largest US base in the region. They should stop inviting foreigners to their lands in order for them to set up bases that will act against the interests of the Arab nation and challenge us in our own neighborhood. Such moves would not be accepted by any regional state but Qatar allows this for obvious reasons (they are scared shitless of KSA).

Qatar should immediately stop their 24/7 propaganda crusade against KSA and numerous Arab states from Egypt to many others. It's totally unacceptable.

KSA post 9/11 and especially in the past few years (when King Salman became king and MbS gained more power) is correcting its own ills and doing (mostly) what it preaches. KSA wants regional progress and unity in the Arab world hence the many initiatives. On the other hand you have an Iranian regime who is doing nothing else but creating trouble wherever its influence is present. Now Qatar is on the same side or at least that appears to be the case.

KSA should not waste time and energy (in a perfect world) on tiny Qatar but look inwards and continue the excellent economic, social, religious, infrastructural, military, educational, scientific progress.

What they are doing nowadays and their spread of hostile propaganda is quite frankly unacceptable.

Arabs should ask themselves whether they want Qatar's vision or MbS vision of progress. Whether what Qatar has been doing is something to emulate or visions like Saudi Vision 2030 and the encouraging changes seen in KSA that no doubt already have impacted other Arab countries.

I can't see any goals or visions from Qatar. I cannot see any results from their policies. All I say is a tiny nation that is trying to punch way above its own weight and a tiny state with delusions of grandeur who somehow cannot accept that it is 1/1000 the size of KSA and that it's native population could fit into 1 tiny neighborhood in Riyadh. I see a hostile regime that has been trying to undermine KSA for ages. They were given many chances. Most recently during the latest GCC row years ago where they promised to fulfill their obligations. Nothing happened. I lost all trust in them. For all I care Qatar should be thrown out of the GCC and replaced by Iraq, Yemen or Jordan or all of them. Let them rely on the tiny waters that they share with the Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's in Iran and Erdogan who they have bribed ages ago. As I see it they are a black-listed entity that should be considered as a hostile entity as long as they continue and are unwilling to change.

Screw Quntar is how I feel currently. Their leadership that is as the people are our own flesh and blood and they are innocent of their deluded and poisonous leadership. Many brave Qataris have stood up against their regime with great consequences for them. Entire tribes and clans have been stripped of their citizenship for standing with KSA (their ancestral homeland). Numerous al-Thani princes have also spoken out against the current Qatari regime and their actions.

Everything you said about Qatar could be said about KSA or UAE. KSA supports political groups in the region as well. Even though there is no democracy at KSA. UAE is a small nation that is trying to seize much influence. MB existed before Qatar became relevant, so not sure what you're ranting about there. I don't think Qatar has armed anyone in Libya except when US did the transfers back in 2011-2012. I'm sure KSA armed them too and most nations supported them against Gaddafi. It wasn't until aftermath where that proxy war began, and I don't see any evidence of Qatar supplying those parties. The weapons they have are from the previous army.

Until after recent spat, AJ was not anti-Saudi Arabia, they supported Saudi narrative in Yemen, Syria and other developments in region. Anyway the rest of your post seems like this is a power struggle between you two, which you are trying to turn into some ethical responsibility, which it isn't. Anyway I don't favor Qatari gov't over another, I was merely pointing out that if they resolved differences and teamed up could be very influential across region.

As for MBS vision, I don't think he has a vision for rest of Arabs. What does he offer to the youth of the region? Secularism? Most people outside of KSA are already secularized, look at Palestine, Tunisia, Lebanon, Jordan, Morocco, Syria, etc.... He does not seem to be appealing to youth of the region so I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think your guy is innovative, sorry man, it's normal that he has to adapt to future and decrease reliance on oil. All oil rich nations have been taking measures on that regard. I don't think he's going to make Saudi's modern either, Saudi's will modernize and are modernizing on their own. He can say he's responsible for liberal reform but all I see is worldwide population is embracing liberal lifestyle or partial liberal lifestyle and don't see what role he played in that.

He needs to interact with youth sort of like Obama had been doing across the world. He could learn a lot from him. And he needs to establish trust with the youth that he wants to secure their future and bring them to a point where they will decide their future. Not speak from a position of power which all countries are doing and risk peoples trust.

Instead he brought Trump over to announce the largest set of military deals(over 10 years) and it is understood by political analysts that Saudi Arabia upgraded ties with the US or made that move to ensure that US will assist it in countering Iran and what not. Whatever the case, did anything change with US policy in the region? Nope. So why did MBS waste money on that affair? GCC Arabs are naive when it comes to this, they should not be dishing out so much money to secure US alliance. US needs them and they can maintain relations without all these favors. Just look at Egypt, they are not conceding much to US but US knows they need Egypt and Egypt is benefiting not only from US aid but also GCC aid. Because they understand how to deal with acquaintances like acquaintances.

 

[beast89]

this sham editorial piece has widely been rejected journalists. What makes saudis happy...he has failed at everything and hasn't touched ISIS in two years.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Everything you said about Qatar could be said about KSA or UAE. KSA supports political groups in the region as well. Even though there is no democracy at KSA. UAE is a small nation that is trying to seize much influence. MB existed before Qatar became relevant, so not sure what you're ranting about there. I don't think Qatar has armed anyone in Libya except when US did the transfers back in 2011-2012. I'm sure KSA armed them too and most nations supported them against Gaddafi. It wasn't until aftermath where that proxy war began, and I don't see any evidence of Qatar supplying those parties. The weapons they have are from the previous army.

Until after recent spat, AJ was not anti-Saudi Arabia, they supported Saudi narrative in Yemen, Syria and other developments in region. Anyway the rest of your post seems like this is a power struggle between you two, which you are trying to turn into some ethical responsibility, which it isn't. Anyway I don't favor Qatari gov't over another, I was merely pointing out that if they resolved differences and teamed up could be very influential across region.

As for MBS vision, I don't think he has a vision for rest of Arabs. What does he offer to the youth of the region? Secularism? Most people outside of KSA are already secularized, look at Palestine, Tunisia, Lebanon, Jordan, Morocco, Syria, etc.... He does not seem to be appealing to youth of the region so I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think your guy is innovative, sorry man, it's normal that he has to adapt to future and decrease reliance on oil. All oil rich nations have been taking measures on that regard. I don't think he's going to make Saudi's modern either, Saudi's will modernize and are modernizing on their own. He can say he's responsible for liberal reform but all I see is worldwide population is embracing liberal lifestyle or partial liberal lifestyle and don't see what role he played in that.

He needs to interact with youth sort of like Obama had been doing across the world. He could learn a lot from him. And he needs to establish trust with the youth that he wants to secure their future and bring them to a point where they will decide their future. Not speak from a position of power which all countries are doing and risk peoples trust.

Instead he brought Trump over to announce the largest set of military deals(over 10 years) and it is understood by political analysts that Saudi Arabia upgraded ties with the US or made that move to ensure that US will assist it in countering Iran and what not. Whatever the case, did anything change with US policy in the region? Nope. So why did MBS waste money on that affair? GCC Arabs are naive when it comes to this, they should not be dishing out so much money to secure US alliance. US needs them and they can maintain relations without all these favors. Just look at Egypt, they are not conceding much to US but US knows they need Egypt and Egypt is benefiting not only from US aid but also GCC aid. Because they understand how to deal with acquaintances like acquaintances.

No, it cannot at all.

KSA is not trying to undermine the GCC. KSA is not plotting against numerous Arab states in order to weaken them for the sake of political parties and foreigners.

Which political groups is KSA supporting? As far as I am aware KSA is supporting communities. For instance KSA has always had a close relationship to the Sunni Arab Lebanese community and the Christian Lebanese community. Similarly KSA has had very close ties to Iraqi Sunni Arabs.

KSA's involvement in Libya was negligible. Of all Arab countries Qatar where the ones that pushed the hardest. Anyway not Gaddafi is gone so the mission is accomplished (since that was the goal) and now Qatar should not try to undermine the Libyan government just because they disagree with them politically on certain fronts.

AJ always played a double game in relation to KSA. A lot of propaganda was posted long before June of this year, I am afraid.

Look how can you team up with a supposed brother (talking about regime here not people) while it undermines you, the organization that you are a part of (GCC) and prefers foreigners and has started a propaganda campaign against KSA/UAE/Bahrain/Egypt just because the camel's back was broken after 3-4 years of patience and unanswered promises signed by Qatar itself (the current emir) back in 2013-2014.

How should we react when they are not hugging the Iranian foreign minister whose government has created and is creating (while we speak) untold chaos in numerous Arab countries?

Yes he does. He appeals to the youth of KSA (70% of the population), the GCC and wider Arab world on numerous fronts. It's the Islamists of today that are against his reforms. The same lot that are pro-Qatar while they forget that this Qatar is the biggest Israeli ally of all Arab states in fact. 20 + years ago the previous emir gifted Shimon Perez an Arabian sword as a gift.

MbS has already gained the trust of the youth by his actions and reforms which is why he is one of the most popular Arab leaders (own people) out there.

No waste of money. Deals (economy) worth almost 500 billion were signed as well. How can that be a bad thing for either country? Most of the military deals were memorandums of understanding. They are not final. In any case KSA needs THAAD, heavily strengthening the navy and other fields which has been something that has been talked about for years.

Have you forgot KSA's masterstroke with China and Russia when it came to military cooperation and business cooperation? Unprecedented. KSA does not rely on the US more than Egypt or Qatar for instance. Remove the US base in Qatar and how will they survive?

Also Qatar themselves bought US/Western weaponry since June.

Fact of the matter is that I see the current Qatari regime and its policies as hostile policies. I wish that I could say it was otherwise but I am afraid that I cannot when looking at the facts on the ground.

this sham editorial piece has widely been rejected journalists. What makes saudis happy...he has failed at everything and hasn't touched ISIS in two years.

This Arab/KSA-obsessed troll at it again with his useless propaganda that is always countered and ridiculed. When you have nothing intelligent to say it is better to keep quite and stick to your rented one-room apartment somewhere in the UK while cheerleading for your beloved Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's that will eventually be defeated. KSA/Arab world will NOT be on the losing side. Trust me on that one.

 

[Falcon29]

No, it cannot at all.

KSA is supporting parties in Yemen and Syria to become the rightful rulers or implement democratic system post war, so yes it can. UAE is a small nation that is as active as Qatar in the region.

KSA is not trying to undermine the GCC. KSA is not plotting against numerous Arab states in order to weaken them for the sake of political parties and foreigners.

On what basis are they undermining GCC? And what foreigners are you talking about?

KSA's involvement in Libya was negligible. Of all Arab countries Qatar where the ones that pushed the hardest. Anyway not Gaddafi is gone so the mission is accomplished (since that was the goal) and now Qatar should not try to undermine the Libyan government just because they disagree with them politically on certain fronts.

Qatar is supporting the UN recognized Libyan gov't, so ....

Look how can you team up with a supposed brother (talking about regime here not people) while it undermines you, the organization that you are a part of (GCC) and prefers foreigners and has started a propaganda campaign against KSA/UAE/Bahrain/Egypt just because the camel's back was broken after 3-4 years of patience and unanswered promises signed by Qatar itself (the current emir) back in 2013-2014.

You can make the case for Egypt, but I didn't see much against KSA or Bahrain prior to recent crisis.

How should we react when they are not hugging the Iranian foreign minister whose government has created and is creating (while we speak) untold chaos in numerous Arab countries?

React how you want, the discussion wasn't about Iran. But if you want to make it about that, why is UAE second largest export destination for Iran? Or why did your nations do nothing in Syria when they had a chance? You are being distracted by rhetoric, GCC is not as anti-Iran as you make it out to be. Same way Iran is not as anti-Israel as it makes itself out to be, that rhetoric is to distract people and the Iran/Israel card is just a way to spread influence. GCC's justification is so and so is enabling or siding with Iran, Iran's justification is so and so is with Israel, etc....

Yes he does. He appeals to the youth of KSA (70% of the population), the GCC and wider Arab world on numerous fronts. It's the Islamists of today that are against his reforms. The same lot that are pro-Qatar while they forget that this Qatar is the biggest Israeli ally of all Arab states in fact. 20 + years ago the previous emir gifted Shimon Perez an Arabian sword as a gift.

I wasn't talking about Saudi youth, I was talking about youth outside GCC. He is not relevant to lives of youth outside of GCC, you can't be serious. I don't think Islamists care about him either, he is not reforming much and Saudi Arabia is not going to throw out it's religious establishment. It will just tweak and fine tune it to be adept to influence modern leaning populations.

MbS has already gained the trust of the youth by his actions and reforms which is why he is one of the most popular Arab leaders (own people) out there.

Arab youth or Saudi youth?

No waste of money. Deals (economy) worth almost 500 billion were signed as well. How can that be a bad thing for either country? Most of the military deals were memorandums of understanding. They are not final. In any case KSA needs THAAD, heavily strengthening the navy and other fields which has been something that has been talked about for years.

Have you forgot KSA's masterstroke with China and Russia when it came to military cooperation and business cooperation? Unprecedented. KSA does not rely on the US more than Egypt or Qatar for instance. Remove the US base in Qatar and how will they survive?

Also Qatar themselves bought US/Western weaponry since June.

Which is why I said GCC nations are naive about some matters. They can all approach military development in better ways, but some of it is necessary of course, like Navy and Air Defense. They could still do it more efficiently.

As for Qatar, with or without US base I don't think anyone intends to go to war. Anyway this isn't about Qatar to me.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

KSA is supporting parties in Yemen and Syria to become the rightful rulers or implement democratic system post war, so yes it can. UAE is a small nation that is as active as Qatar in the region.



On what basis are they undermining GCC? And what foreigners are you talking about?



Qatar is supporting the UN recognized Libyan gov't, so ....



You can make the case for Egypt, but I didn't see much against KSA or Bahrain prior to recent crisis.



React how you want, the discussion wasn't about Iran. But if you want to make it about that, why is UAE second largest export destination for Iran? Or why did your nations do nothing in Syria when they had a chance? You are being distracted by rhetoric, GCC is not as anti-Iran as you make it out to be. Same way Iran is not as anti-Israel as it makes itself out to be, that rhetoric is to distract people and the Iran/Israel card is just a way to spread influence. GCC's justification is so and so is enabling or siding with Iran, Iran's justification is so and so is with Israel, etc....



I wasn't talking about Saudi youth, I was talking about youth outside GCC. He is not relevant to lives of youth outside of GCC, you can't be serious. I don't think Islamists care about him either, he is not reforming much and Saudi Arabia is not going to throw out it's religious establishment. It will just tweak and fine tune it to be adept to influence modern leaning populations.



Arab youth or Saudi youth?



Which is why I said GCC nations are naive about some matters. They can all approach military development in better ways, but some of it is necessary of course, like Navy and Air Defense. They could still do it more efficiently.

As for Qatar, with or without US base I don't think anyone intends to go to war. Anyway this isn't about Qatar to me.

Hadi became the elected president in Yemen after the removal of Ali Abdullah Saleh and was supposed to be a transitional figure until the Houthi terrorist cult began an armed uprising that ended up with most of post-revolution Yemen being swallowed up by them and Ali Abdullah Saleh who returned back to Yemen in order to gain power again.

The alternative is an incompetent, qat-addicted terrorist cult and Northern Yemen turning into South Lebanon. That is NEVER going to be tolerated and rightly so. KSA is by all means on the right side of history here.

As for Syria, KSA support for good and bad was never big or as big or as low (depending on your views) as it should/could have been. There are reasons for that such as internal priorities, Yemen, Iraq, Bahrain, Egypt and other areas of conflict and political developments in the region and world.

As for Syria, KSA does not support or demand that Syrians should accept any particular party. KSA has merely (just like most of the Arab world) stood with the Syrian people and in opposition to the Al-Assad regime that has lost all of its legitimacy ages ago. The Turkish foreign minister just recently stated that he does not see stability return to Syria as long as Al-Assad is in power. That's a view that KSA has had for ages.

I honestly don't see any controversy in that. What would be worse was if KSA had ignored Syria altogether and not taken a stance. That stance meant that over 500.000 Syrians now live in KSA.

Read up about Qatar's policies since 1995. Read up on the recent GCC row a few years back when Qatar was all alone just like it is today.

Why is Qatar hosting wanted people? Why is Qatar naturalizing them? Why is Qatar hosting internationally wanted extremists?

Why is Qatar giving Turkey the opportunity to built a military base (I know it is insignificant in the wider picture but it says a lot) when there is no need for that. Whom are they afraid of and why are they a part of the GCC if they need the security of Turkey and Iran? What kind of ally is that? Imagine the reaction of Qatar if KSA allowed Egypt to built an Egyptian military base next to the Qatari border.

http://www.newsweek.com/qatar-support-worst-worst-libya-must-end-646280

No, expect from the previous Qatari emir talking about dividing KSA with Gaddafi ages ago and Qatar trying to undermine KSA ever since 1995. As for Qatari-Bahraini relations, they are even worse. Qatar shamelessly host wanted people from Bahrain and have neutralized them.

UAE's economic relations with Iran are vastly in favor of UAE and very one-sided. Business is business and you can't do much against that. KSA is not UAE either or vice versa. However UAE is not guilty of what Qatar has been doing for years.

Check out Arab forums and Twitter. Many Arab youth look at him as a ambitious, resolute, open-minded and direct leader. They are impressed by his visions and projects initiated and are happy about where KSA is heading at. As I said it is mostly the Islamists who see him (also confirmed on PDF) as some kind of person that is out to "eradicate" Islam.

Nobody supports a removal of anything. KSA will remain a Muslim country but that will not prevent the people and MbS (government) from correcting ills which is a work in progress. I don't know any such leader in the Arab world as of now. In fact the only Arab leader his age is the Qatari Emir. Rest are dominated by the old guard and we see the results as a consequence by looking at the situation in most Arab countries.

KSA is undergoing huge transformations on all fronts, including the military. Hence why an highly ambitious indigenous military sector is opening up and doing great so far considering it is just the beginning.

A huge achievement for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the formation of the best military industrial base in the region:

- Saudi Arabia Produces Unmanned CH-4/5 and Saqr 1 UAVs

- It makes 35% of the F-15SA fighter ..And upgrades the F-15S to SA Block

- It makes military and civilian transport, reconnaissance and EW aircrafts locally with Antonov

- Helicopters: Blackhawk transport and combat

- Manufacture of armored and anti-mine vehicles: Al-Masmak - Tawwik - Salman Al-Hazm - and Al-Kabal 3/2

- Making Radars, electronics, targeting pods, bombs, missiles and parts of the AMRAAM air-to-air missiles

- Manufacture of 85% ammunition and spare parts representing 90% of the needs of the armed forces..

- The manufacture of Russian weapons.. S-400 parts, Rocket launchers TOS-1, Cornet ATGM, Grenade launchers and Kalashnikov assault rifles and machine guns..

* Not bad for base as a start..

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/made-in-ksa.475488/page-13#post-10050796

As for Qatar, this Twitter exposes them and it's doing a tremendous job. No way can I support the current Qatari regime.

https://twitter.com/qatarileaks

 

[Falcon29]

Hadi became the elected president in Yemen after the removal of Ali Abdullah Saleh and was supposed to be a transitional figure until the Houthi terrorist cult began an armed uprising that ended up with most of post-revolution Yemen being swallowed up by them and Ali Abdullah Saleh who returned back to Yemen in order to gain power again.

The alternative is an incompetent, qat-addicted terrorist cult and Northern Yemen turning into South Lebanon. That is NEVER going to be tolerated and rightly so. KSA is by all means on the right side of history here.

We weren't talking about right or wrong, we were talking about support of political parties. Which you shamed Qatar for, but KSA and UAE do it too. Saudi Arabia did and does play a financial and material role in Syrian conflict.

I honestly don't see any controversy in that. What would be worse was if KSA had ignored Syria altogether and not taken a stance. That stance meant that over 500.000 Syrians now live in KSA.

Not about controversy, look above.

Read up about Qatar's policies since 1995. Read up on the recent GCC row a few years back when Qatar was all alone just like it is today.

Not interested that because my focus is more along the popular camps in the region and not really Qatar.

Why is Qatar giving Turkey the opportunity to built a military base (I know it is insignificant in the wider picture but it says a lot) when there is no need for that. Whom are they afraid of and why are they a part of the GCC if they need the security of Turkey and Iran? What kind of ally is that? Imagine the reaction of Qatar if KSA allowed Egypt to built an Egyptian military base next to the Qatari border.

Why does it matter? Turkey will not pose a threat to Saudi Arabia. Those plans I believe were intact long before the crisis but implemented after crisis. Doesn't Pakistan and Egypt also have presence in Saudi Arabia? What's wrong with that if they are allies?

No, expect from the previous Qatari emir talking about dividing KSA with Gaddafi ages ago and Qatar trying to undermine KSA ever since 1995. As for Qatari-Bahraini relations, they are even worse. Qatar shamelessly host wanted people from Bahrain and have neutralized them.

Which people are you referring to?

UAE's economic relations with Iran are vastly in favor of UAE and very one-sided. Business is business and you can't do much against that. KSA is not UAE either or vice versa. However UAE is not guilty of what Qatar has been doing for years.

So now business is business? But anyone else who do business with Iran is castrated. Can't you see the double standard here?

Check out Arab forums and Twitter. Many Arab youth look at him as a ambitious, resolute, open-minded and direct leader. They are impressed by his visions and projects initiated and are happy about where KSA is heading at. As I said it is mostly the Islamists who see him (also confirmed on PDF) as some kind of person that is out to "eradicate" Islam.

Arab forums are one sided, but I'm not bothered if people look up to him. Those outside GCC don't really. Besides the usual pro-Saudi axis people who are aligned with current Egyptian gov't, Jordanian gov't, etc...those in those nations not aligned with that camp don't think see things that way. I don't see him eradicating Islam, Islam has already been left by the majority of people, so those you refer to are just stupid people who can't recognize that.

 

[SALMAN F]

If the citizen of KSA are happy with reforms done by the Prince than i don't why people are complaining.. Anti-corruption is a good thing it will stop others also.. KSA will become rich and will grow.. People should stop interfering in their internal matters.. every country has the right to change laws and make new one.. hope he focuses on economy.. more trade with countries like Pakistan china and so on..

This so called prince is arresting the other thieves in the name of corruption while in reality he want to stole what they stole

 

[Saif al-Arab]

We weren't talking about right or wrong, we were talking about support of political parties. Which you shamed Qatar for, but KSA and UAE do it too. Saudi Arabia did and does play a financial and material role in Syrian conflict.



Not about controversy, look above.



Not interested that because my focus is more along the popular camps in the region and not really Qatar.



Why does it matter? Turkey will not pose a threat to Saudi Arabia. Those plans I believe were intact long before the crisis but implemented after crisis. Doesn't Pakistan and Egypt also have presence in Saudi Arabia? What's wrong with that if they are allies?



Which people are you referring to?



So now business is business? But anyone else who do business with Iran is castrated. Can't you see the double standard here?



Arab forums are one sided, but I'm not bothered if people look up to him. Those outside GCC don't really. Besides the usual pro-Saudi axis people who are aligned with current Egyptian gov't, Jordanian gov't, etc...those in those nations not aligned with that camp don't think see things that way. I don't see him eradicating Islam, Islam has already been left by the majority of people, so those you refer to are just stupid people who can't recognize that.

Which political parties is KSA supporting outside of KSA? Which proxies do KSA control? Please name them. As I wrote KSA tends to support communities irrespective of policies. Only in Lebanon is there some sort of political alliance but it is loose and not based on whatever political groups that local Sunni Lebanese have created or Christian Lebanese.

Being involved is something totally normal for a county the size of KSA with its significant economic, military, cultural, historical, religious etc. clout aside from it currently being the strongest Arab country and a country that many Arabs look up to to an extent and certainly expect a lot from. Depending on the narrative. What is certain is that KSA is a big talking point and that has always been the case since I remember and I have been told the same by elders. One can say the same about the likes of Egypt and Iraq historically and even today.

We need to distinguish between positive and negative influence. What Qatar has been doing is not a positive thing by large. Whether within the GCC context or outside of it.

You are not interested in that but nevertheless it is a key element in why relations have stalled and why such drastic steps were taken not only by KSA but numerous Arab countries. If you do not know about the background story it is rather pointless to discuss the dispute as you will only look at this from an uniformed point of view to a large degree.

It matters because it is contrary to the spirit of the GCC and not needed at all. As I see it the current Turkish (under Erdogan) foreign policy in the Arab world is not aligned with that of most Arab countries and to an extent it can be considered as a potential threat. I am not a fan of some of his braindead supporters Neo-Ottoman ambitions. We have a few on PDF that I have slapped a few times.

No, Egypt has no military base in KSA nor Pakistan and never had. There are no Egyptian soldiers in KSA. Neither Pakistanis aside from a very small number of retired officers who are used to train soldiers which is done by numerous peoples and done routinely during military drills with Western, non-Western, Muslim and Arab nations.

https://qatarileaks.com/en

https://qatarileaks.com/ar

https://qatarileaks.com/en/leak/why-boycotting-qatar-is-reasonable

Plenty of exposure in this Twitter account which is updated several times daily;

https://twitter.com/qatarileaks?lang=da

As for specific individuals, here is one example;

https://twitter.com/x/status/933839836523270144

In a perfect world UAE would have no economic/business dealings with Iran as long as Iran is ruled by the Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's. However you need to see the positives in the negatives and in this case UAE-Iran trade is HUGELY in favor of UAE.

BTW trade is trade. Even KSA and Iran traded not long ago and probably still do it. This is not the point here. What Qatar has done is not comparable. For instance they signed a deal allowing Iranian military presence in Qatar some time ago. That was before June 2017. That is totally unacceptable for instance.

Depends which Arab forums. There is bias everywhere it all depends on your views.

That's not my impression. I have seen numerous Arabs from Morocco to Yemen hail the reforms that MbS is trying to achieve and has achieved already and other visions of his. Of course that praise is not deriving from Islamists for the most. More like pragmatists and people who themselves want to see changes in their own countries. As I told 1000 times before, I do not care about ideology. I am not controlled by it or some allegiance to political groups like the MB which many Arabs are. Nor do I consider the House of Saud as some spiritual leaders as unfortunately some Shia Arabs do with the Iranian Mullah's. What I care about first and foremost is the success of KSA and that of the wider Arab world. If that can include the Muslim world by large and the regional neighborhood it will be a good thing but the first two have my priority.

Certainly I can't think of a more popular Arab leader currently. Of course each Arab leader, their own people, will mostly be familiar with their own leaders but there are Arab countries such as KSA, Egypt, Iraq etc. where other Arabs will voice their opinions always.

BTW honestly it does not matter what Arabs outside of KSA or even within the GCC think about MbS. To me at least. Nobody can deny KSA's rise in recent years and success on numerous fronts compared to regional, Muslim, developing and Arab countries and obviously locals would want that trend to continue and increase.

This so called prince is arresting the other thieves in the name of corruption while in reality he want to stole what they stole

First of all princes were in the minority when that anti-corruption purge was made. Secondly this anti-corruption purge has been in the making for years. Thirdly a few have already been released after proving their innocence. Fourthly MbS is the state or soon to be the state. In the sense that he is the figurehead. So it is his job to combat corruption. He has enough of money at his disposable privately so he does not need the money of domestic billionaires. If he wanted to become a billionaire he would have a great head-start but he chose another path which is to serve the country from a very young age and working tiredly. He has done a tremendous job so far inside KSA hence his big popularity.

 

[SALMAN F]

Which political parties is KSA supporting outside of KSA? Which proxies do KSA control? Please name them. As I wrote KSA tends to support communities irrespective of policies. Only in Lebanon is there some sort of political alliance but it is loose and not based on whatever political groups that local Sunni Lebanese have created or Christian Lebanese.

Being involved is something totally normal for a county the size of KSA with its significant economic, military, cultural, historical, religious etc. clout aside from it currently being the strongest Arab country and a country that many Arabs look up to an expect a lot from.

We need to distinguish between positive and negative influence. What Qatar has been doing is not a positive thing by large. Whether within the GCC context or outside of it.

You are not interested in that but nevertheless it is a key element in why relations have stalled and why such drastic steps were taken not only by KSA but numerous Arab countries. If you do not know about the background story it is rather pointless to discuss the dispute as you will only look at this from an uniformed point of view to a large degree.

It matters because it is contrary to the spirit of the GCC and not needed at all. As I see it the current Turkish (under Erdogan) foreign policy in the Arab world is not aligned with that of most Arab countries and to an extent it can be considered as a potential threat. I am not a fan of some of his braindead supporters Neo-Ottoman ambitions. We have a few on PDF that I have slapped a few times.

No, Egypt has no military base in KSA nor Pakistan and never had. There are no Egyptian soldiers in KSA. Neither Pakistani's aside from a very small number of retired officers who are used to train soldiers which is done by numerous peoples and done routinely during military drills with Western, non-Western, Muslim and Arab nations.

https://qatarileaks.com/en

https://qatarileaks.com/ar

https://qatarileaks.com/en/leak/why-boycotting-qatar-is-reasonable

Plenty of exposure in this Twitter account which is updated several times daily;

https://twitter.com/qatarileaks?lang=da

As for specific individuals, here is one example;

https://twitter.com/x/status/933839836523270144

1) In a perfect world UAE would have no economic/business dealings with Iran as long as Iran is ruled by the Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's. However you need to see the positives in the negatives and in this case UAE-Iran trade is HUGELY in favor of UAE.

BTW trade is trade. Even KSA and Iran traded not long ago and probably still do it. This is not the point here. What Qatar has done is not comparable. For instance they signed a deal allowing Iranian military presence in Qatar some time ago. That was before June 2017. That is totally unacceptable for instance.

Depends which Arab forums. There is bias everywhere it all depends on your views.

That's not my impression. I have seen numerous Arabs from Morocco to Yemen hail the reforms that MbS is trying to achieve and have achieved already and other visions of his. Certainly I can't think of a more popular Arab leader currently. Of course each Arab leader, their own people, will mostly be familiar with their own leaders but there are Arab countries such as KSA, Egypt, Iraq etc. where other Arabs will voice their opinions always.

BTW honestly it does not matter what Arabs outside of KSA or even within the GCC think about MbS. To me at least. Nobody can deny KSA's rise in recent years and success on numerous fronts compared to regional, Muslim, developing and Arab countries and obviously locals would want that trend to continue and increase.



First of all princes were in the minority when that anti-corruption purge was made. Secondly this anti-corruption purge has been in the making for years. Thirdly a few have already been released after proving their innocence. Fourthly MbS is the state or soon to be the state. In the sense that he is the figurehead. So it is his job to combat corruption. He has enough of money at his disposable privately so he does not need the money of domestic billionaires. If he wanted to become a billionaire he would have a great head-start but he chose another path which is to serve the country from a very young age and working tiredly. He has done a tremendous job so far inside KSA hence his big popularity.

The future will tell more since I am not saudi or expert os saudi affairs but some Saudis said these things about him

 

[Saif al-Arab]

The future will tell more since I am not saudi or expert os saudi affairs but some Saudis said these things about him

Well, Saudi Arabians are not robots. There will be 30 million different opinions (more or less) just like in every country. For instance not everyone in Iraq loves Al-Abadi, Al-Sadr, PMU or numerous other public figures. Just like not every Palestinian likes Hamas, Fatah, Abbas or whatever public figure or group etc.

Anyway such accusations are basely for the reasons that I mentioned alone and there are many more.

If MbS was interested in money he would not be where he is today. He would be living a life like many princes and other well-to-do people in KSA which is a life outside of the public spotlight and doing business and being in a very privileged position to succeed. The likes of Al-Waleed bin Talal etc. So I don't buy this theory.

There is probably an element of power grab involved but I see this as a necessary evil in a country that was dominated by numerous factions within the ruling family and influential families/peoples and having more centralized and effective power is for the most part great as long as the leader is doing good which is the case of MbS not because he is MbS but because we can see tangible results and because most of the people support him. And even all that aside it is quite remarkable for Arab and Middle Eastern standards to see such a young leader. It's not normal and part of the problem in many Arab countries is that the people in power tend to be much older than the majority of the people (youth) and thus they have a hard time relating to the youth and their problems. That's not the case with MbS at all and we see the results of that.

As for time, yes it will tell how it will end but for now I have personally been very impressed (as have the majority of the people in KSA) and until I see otherwise I will not change my views. However in say 5 or 10 years I might be proven wrong and in such a case I will obviously be disappointed not because of MbS but because I care about KSA, the people and the country's future and want the best for it just like most people want the best for their own country. There is nothing strange about that.

Just like there is nothing strange about Saudi Arabians being happy about what has been going on internally in KSA in the past 1 year or so and all that will follow in the future.

Just like many if not most Iraqis are happy about what Al-Abadi has been doing compared to the era of Al-Maliki.

Speaking about Al-Abadi he too is involved in a anti-corruption purge and ironically this occurred after the Saudi Arabian purge. Just like Egypt initiated their own Vision 2030 plan after KSA announced its own.

For instance I would never make such a comment about Al-Abadi (him wanting more money) because I can see his track record. Had this been Al-Maliki I would think otherwise. Similarly with MbS in KSA. Had it been King Fahd I would be very suspicious. But due to MbS's track record so far I have no reason to think like that.

@SALMAN F

 

[Falcon29]

Which political parties is KSA supporting outside of KSA? Which proxies do KSA control? Please name them. As I wrote KSA tends to support communities irrespective of policies. Only in Lebanon is there some sort of political alliance but it is loose and not based on whatever political groups that local Sunni Lebanese have created or Christian Lebanese.

You need to stop twisting my words, no where did I say Saudi Arabia controls groups. I said they support political groups across the region like Qatar and UAE do. Go look at the Riyadh conference and numerous political statements by your government that they support the opposition and supported materially the FSA.

Being involved is something totally normal for a county the size of KSA with its significant economic, military, cultural, historical, religious etc. clout aside from it currently being the strongest Arab country and a country that many Arabs look up to to an extent and certainly expect a lot from. Depending on the narrative. What is certain is that KSA is a big talking point and that has always been the case since I remember and I have been told the same by elders. One can say the same about the likes of Egypt and Iraq historically and even today.

Yeah it's normal , you are the one who makes it seem otherwise when you're criticizing Qatar.

We need to distinguish between positive and negative influence. What Qatar has been doing is not a positive thing by large. Whether within the GCC context or outside of it.

No we don't, what's negative or positive is different from person to person. And I wasn't asserting that anyone is playing a positive role. I didn't praise Qatar or mention that I believe they're the best regime with the best policies.

You are not interested in that but nevertheless it is a key element in why relations have stalled and why such drastic steps were taken not only by KSA but numerous Arab countries. If you do not know about the background story it is rather pointless to discuss the dispute as you will only look at this from an uniformed point of view to a large degree.

I don't see it as a big deal, rulers in this region make all kinds of empty talk and envy one another. It's childish but it is what it is. You can go back to late 1700's too, what matters is the present. The current emir didn't appear to be anti-Saudi in any way.

It matters because it is contrary to the spirit of the GCC and not needed at all. As I see it the current Turkish (under Erdogan) foreign policy in the Arab world is not aligned with that of most Arab countries and to an extent it can be considered as a potential threat. I am not a fan of some of his braindead supporters Neo-Ottoman ambitions. We have a few on PDF that I have slapped a few times.

I am not a fan of those guys either. As for Turkey's influence in Arab world, their major influence is in Syria and their policy there has mostly been inline with that of KSA's views on the conflict. There will be no ethnically dominated mega states anymore, and you shouldn't be worked up by some trolls on this forum or just hyper nationalist gullible people.

No, Egypt has no military base in KSA nor Pakistan and never had. There are no Egyptian soldiers in KSA. Neither Pakistanis aside from a very small number of retired officers who are used to train soldiers which is done by numerous peoples and done routinely during military drills with Western, non-Western, Muslim and Arab nations.

Okay then, there are not many Turkish officers in Qatar and they historically had same role Pakistani forces play in KSA. I don't see the controversy, both nations have US bases.

In a perfect world UAE would have no economic/business dealings with Iran as long as Iran is ruled by the Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's. However you need to see the positives in the negatives and in this case UAE-Iran trade is HUGELY in favor of UAE.

That's not the point, the point was others are galvanized over any economic cooperation with Iran even if minuscule.

BTW trade is trade. Even KSA and Iran traded not long ago and probably still do it. This is not the point here. What Qatar has done is not comparable. For instance they signed a deal allowing Iranian military presence in Qatar some time ago. That was before June 2017. That is totally unacceptable for instance.

Never heard of Iran having a base in Qatar.

That's not my impression. I have seen numerous Arabs from Morocco to Yemen hail the reforms that MbS is trying to achieve and has achieved already and other visions of his. Of course that praise is not deriving from Islamists for the most. More like pragmatists and people who themselves want to see changes in their own countries. As I told 1000 times before, I do not care about ideology. I am not controlled by it or some allegiance to political groups like the MB which many Arabs are. Nor do I consider the House of Saud as some spiritual leaders as unfortunately some Shia Arabs do with the Iranian Mullah's. What I care about first and foremost is the success of KSA and that of the wider Arab world. If that can include the Muslim world by large and the regional neighborhood it will be a good thing but the first two have my priority.

You seem to assume Islamists=MB in this region, which isn't the case. Many people aren't happy with reforms in KSA that have nothing to do with MB. Me personally I find those people hypocritical, as everyone else has had mixing/concerts/alcohol and resorts long before KSA. So it makes no sense to sound the alarm now. In Islam concerts aren't really accepted. But that should be theological discussion and not political one. I don't have any allegiance to MB nor do I any MB people or care about them. I'm an ordinary guy against injustice or counterproductive measures. I will defend anybody and everybody if in a certain case they are in the right. Whether that's a certain MB branch or MbS or whoever. I don't subscribe to any political ideology.

Back to Mbs, I don't get any impression that he is anti-religion. Whatever Islamists you're talking about, I don't know what they are thinking. I'm not an Islamist. Saudi Arabia is still a pretty religious country, if not the most religious country in the region. He's allowing things to be permitted that weren't before. And if Muslims don't want concerts or whatever it is, they need to look within first and have a theological debate about it. But to criticize Saudi Arabia and accuse them of going after Islam is like I said facetious coming from some people. You would have to address the whole Muslim peoples if you're genuinely concerned and view yourself to be a fair person.

Certainly I can't think of a more popular Arab leader currently. Of course each Arab leader, their own people, will mostly be familiar with their own leaders but there are Arab countries such as KSA, Egypt, Iraq etc. where other Arabs will voice their opinions always.

I don't see any of them being popular across all spectrums. He's popular within his country. Egyptians that support Al-Sisi support him just like they support the King of Jordan, etc....not indicative of popular support among diverse youth. Especially when they have the money and guns and won't allow for an environment for counter leaders.

BTW honestly it does not matter what Arabs outside of KSA or even within the GCC think about MbS. To me at least. Nobody can deny KSA's rise in recent years and success on numerous fronts compared to regional, Muslim, developing and Arab countries and obviously locals would want that trend to continue and increase.

You are taking this too personally, I argued that I don't see this as a regional awakening among people as article is suggesting. Not much really has changed among social circles. As for KSA, yeah they are developing, good for them, what makes you think I am against that?