Saudi Arabian Air, Land, Naval Forces & SANG

[Zarvan]

I don't understand exactly what our air force has on mind really. They are replacing the F-5s with Typhoons. They are replacing the F-15S with F-15SA and increasing it's number. But what will replace the Tornadoes?? Those will be out of service as well. And what will replace the F-15C/Ds?? Meaning the AirForce is not yet done buying. Also right now we are like the only air force in the region without UAVs or any news of buying any. I know there is some sort of UAV program going on they already done researching and testing indigenous engines for it.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

Than you should hope and pray that they must be doing something or it can be a total disaster if they don't do anything

 

[Mosamania]

Than you should hope and pray that they must be doing something or it can be a total disaster if they don't do anything

They have been working on it for years now. I am sure at least some prototypes are done. These pictures are 3 years old. we will have to wait and see I guess until they unveil them at one point.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir, I think the cost per aircraft is US$44.46m including spare parts and training.

2.223bn+ 3.3bn + 25.6bn = 31.123bn /70 = $44.46m

Secondly despite the American jobs being saved, it's not easy getting state of the art hardware. You do have to pay extra per unit or spend more on associated equipment / ammo to get stuff like this.

honestly do the maths again u missed a decimal!!

 

[SyedF]

Sir, I think the cost per aircraft is US$44.46m including spare parts and training.

2.223bn+ 3.3bn + 25.6bn = 31.123bn /70 = $44.46m

Secondly despite the American jobs being saved, it's not easy getting state of the art hardware. You do have to pay extra per unit or spend more on associated equipment / ammo to get stuff like this.

Sirjee, I think you overlooked the 72 Black hawks, 36 little birds, 12 MD530F plus the associated, ammo+spare parts+training+ accessories in the following notification:

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2010/Saudi_Arabia_10-44.pdf

I'm trying to ultimately arrive at the per unit cost but with all these above items thrown in, its quite a daunting task! The prices for a lot of these items is simply not available on the net.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sirjee, I think you overlooked the 72 Black hawks, 36 little birds, 12 MD530F plus the associated, ammo+spare parts+training+ accessories in the following notification:

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2010/Saudi_Arabia_10-44.pdf

I'm trying to ultimately arrive at the per unit cost but with all these above items thrown in, its quite a daunting task! The prices for a lot of these items is simply not available on the net.

well what i am saying that even if we consider everything its too high

there hasnt been any indication of pricing detail but i read somewhere that 22.5 billion was suppose to be for 70 f-15s and the upgrades and upgrades. this puts the price at near 200 million

in nutshell its time saudi give up american equipment and diversity their sources and abilities by doing joint ventures and TOT.
i am pretty sure they can get 5th gen product if they do a joint venture or buy it from the Chinese or russians. it has to be noted that Saudi arabia
has immense influence in the world due to oil power and his influence among the Muslim countries

what i want to point out that would the saudi with over 2 crore population be buying military equipment for ever when countries much smaller with much less resources are moving towards self sufficiency. The UAE has performed better in this area

 

[Zarvan]

They have been working on it for years now. I am sure at least some prototypes are done. These pictures are 3 years old. we will have to wait and see I guess until they unveil them at one point.

I am talking about the replacement for F-15 and Tornadoes they should order alternate planes first before retiring some old planes

 

[Mosamania]

well what i am saying that even if we consider everything its too high

there hasnt been any indication of pricing detail but i read somewhere that 22.5 billion was suppose to be for 70 f-15s and the upgrades and upgrades. this puts the price at near 200 million

in nutshell its time saudi give up american equipment and diversity their sources and abilities by doing joint ventures and TOT.
i am pretty sure they can get 5th gen product if they do a joint venture or buy it from the Chinese or russians. it has to be noted that Saudi arabia
has immense influence in the world due to oil power and his influence among the Muslim countries

what i want to point out that would the saudi with over 2 crore population be buying military equipment for ever when countries much smaller with much less resources are moving towards self sufficiency. The UAE has performed better in this area

The entire deal is worth 29.4 Billion dollars. Including everything. The difference between us and the UAE is that UAE does not care about the indigenous population getting the info or not. the UAE basically buys foreign companies and lets them work on its soil from business point of view this is very good but not serve what it is intended. on the other hand we are getting our own population educated so the science is preserved. In other words on the long run we are gaining the real advantages while this is not the case for the UAE.

And when you say 70 F-15s it just shows how much you know about the deal. You didn't even bother to follow it through and read it carefully. Which means before making judgements go read about it first.

And yes I knew that was the point you are trying to make "Don't buy American" Even though all your info is wrong and you are clearly just blabing and blabing. Make a serious read on it from multiple sources as I have then let's discuss it like knowledgeable individuals.
Really "Stupid rich Saudis herp derp blargh blargh" is getting very very old.

---------- Post added at 07:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 AM ----------

I am talking about the replacement for F-15 and Tornadoes they should order alternate planes first before retiring some old planes

We will see what will happen. the F-15 C/Ds got re hauled in 2010 so it can still serve for some time we will see how things play out.

 

[SyedF]

well what i am saying that even if we consider everything its too high

there hasnt been any indication of pricing detail but i read somewhere that 22.5 billion was suppose to be for 70 f-15s and the upgrades and upgrades. this puts the price at near 200 million

in nutshell its time saudi give up american equipment and diversity their sources and abilities by doing joint ventures and TOT.
i am pretty sure they can get 5th gen product if they do a joint venture or buy it from the Chinese or russians. it has to be noted that Saudi arabia
has immense influence in the world due to oil power and his influence among the Muslim countries

what i want to point out that would the saudi with over 2 crore population be buying military equipment for ever when countries much smaller with much less resources are moving towards self sufficiency. The UAE has performed better in this area

Sir, the thing is as per the following DSCA notification the cost for 84 (new) + 70 (upgrades) + Ammo + Spares + Training + Infrastructure = $29.432billion

So to arrive at the per unit cost is quite difficult in my opinion.

Secondly as to what the UAE did was quite similar too!! They paid through their nose for the Block 60.

The F-15's being bought by the Saudis aren't donkeys in a thoroughbred race, in fact they are the most advanced F15's that can be exported and are much better than the existing F15K & slightly better than the F15SG.

Secondly, as someone said previously on this thread, when you buy state of the art equipemnt form the Americans you do have to pay a premium for it, it wont be the same price the US tax payers pay for their equipment. This is why Pakistan gets tier 2 equipment like the Blk 52 instead of the Blk 60!






http://www.dsca.mil/pressreleases/36-b/2010/Saudi_Arabia_10-43.pdf

 

[Mosamania]

Storm shadow:

Meteor missile:

Iris-T:

 

[Tshering22]

No there are no Russian birds as of now.

I don't think you should try getting them either. As such there is too much diversity in RSAF. We had this problem in the 80s-- IAF was like a zoo of different jets. Just focus on homogenizing the fleet at your end; most air forces including us are trying to narrow down to 2-3 different varieties of jets.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the current RSAF inventory:

- F-15SA
- F-16 Desert Falcon
- Panavia Tornado
- Eurofighter Typhoon
- F-5

There are also talks of getting Rafales in. That would only complicate the fleet management of RSAF. Money may not be issue for you folks but I think stick to Typhoons and F-15 latest variants now once you phase out F-5s, Tornados and older F-16s.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir, the thing is as per the following DSCA notification the cost for 84 (new) + 70 (upgrades) + Ammo + Spares + Training + Infrastructure = $29.432billion

So to arrive at the per unit cost is quite difficult in my opinion.

Secondly as to what the UAE did was quite similar too!! They paid through their nose for the Block 60.

The F-15's being bought by the Saudis aren't donkeys in a thoroughbred race, in fact they are the most advanced F15's that can be exported and are much better than the existing F15K & slightly better than the F15SG.

Secondly, as someone said previously on this thread, when you buy state of the art equipemnt form the Americans you do have to pay a premium for it, it wont be the same price the US tax payers pay for their equipment. This is why Pakistan gets tier 2 equipment like the Blk 52 instead of the Blk 60! http://www.dsca.mil/pressreleases/36-b/2010/Saudi_Arabia_10-43.pdf

true, very true..its hard to get to per unit price, but its a fairly well calculated estimate..t what i am saying that saudi arabia being such a massive imprter of weapons should get into full joint ventures and try to get independent..
typhoon deal which with all training and armaments cost approximately 8 billion with full TOT is close to a good deal, similarly if you see the indian MRCA with 40% reinvestment promise is an excellent deal..

in comparison to that the deal seem to be extremely over paid..

mi-17 is 4 times cheaper than black hawk even it being much reliable and widely used plateform..
Saudi forces earlier inked a deal of 77 choppers for worth of 1.3 billion only.
same deal with US would cost billions..

why we went for f-16 was that we had apparently no other choice however today aviation industry is much more open to choices

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

and RSAF doesnt uses F-16s and have retired most of F-5s

i think bst option was to get the typhoons with more involvement in the core of the project

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

and RSAF doesnt uses F-16s and have retired most of F-5s

i think bst option was to get the typhoons with more involvement in the core of the project

 

[Mosamania]

I don't think you should try getting them either. As such there is too much diversity in RSAF. We had this problem in the 80s-- IAF was like a zoo of different jets. Just focus on homogenizing the fleet at your end; most air forces including us are trying to narrow down to 2-3 different varieties of jets.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the current RSAF inventory:

- F-15SA
- F-16 Desert Falcon
- Panavia Tornado
- Eurofighter Typhoon
- F-5

There are also talks of getting Rafales in. That would only complicate the fleet management of RSAF. Money may not be issue for you folks but I think stick to Typhoons and F-15 latest variants now once you phase out F-5s, Tornados and older F-16s.

we have no F-16s other GCC air forces do.
F-15SA
EF-2000
Tornado

F-5 phasing out of service being replaced by Typhoons. trust me its not a zoo. if we get anymore jets it will be for the navy and the Army/SANG which will have their own managements.

 

[Zarvan]

we have no F-16s other GCC air forces do.
F-15SA
EF-2000
Tornado

F-5 phasing out of service being replaced by Typhoons. trust me its not a zoo. if we get anymore jets it will be for the navy and the Army/SANG which will have their own managements.

The amont of deadly missiles on Euro makes it really a deadly machine for the enemies of Saudi Arabia but Saudi Should buy and get more fighter planes in far great numbers than already have and they should get them with TOT as well as improve the training of their soldiers

 

[Mosamania]

The amont of deadly missiles on Euro makes it really a deadly machine for the enemies of Saudi Arabia but Saudi Should buy and get more fighter planes in far great numbers than already have and they should get them with TOT as well as improve the training of their soldiers

a lot of ToT happened lately. also this whole Saudis are lazy and stupid thing is really really annoying.

 

[SyedF]

a lot of ToT happened lately. also this whole Saudis are lazy and stupid thing is really really annoying.

After an year or two (max) you will see a dramatic shift in policy, as well as ToT