Saudi Arabia wants to join Tempest 6 generation fighter project

[SQ8]

tbh I'd wager the African states will somehow pull out of it too...definitely (IMO) Senegal and Morocco, for example. It's the ones with our Pakistani-style mentality (well-entrenched elites, import culture, etc), e.g., Nigeria, Algeria, Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, etc, that will lag.

I think Egypt may fare better -

Plus their overarching loyalty to the GCC ensures they have a lot more buoyancy available to them.

 

[Ali_Baba]

This is fantastic news at multiple levels for sure. A boost in the arm for Tempest for sure. Givne the UK-SA relatioship, a natural step.

Saudia has massively invested in local manufacturing to western standards eg Hawks etc, so this is the next step and they can build large portions of tempest locally.

Saudia R&D contribution would be good - Tempest is Modular - and Saudia can build and integrate their own components and software on top of contributing to the core-Tempest programme.

( And given Saudia Arabia's involvement - it does potentially cut off India getting involved in Tempest due to sensitivity of PAF taking a look at it ? )

The UK goverment has clarified that these are initial conversations, ie the journey has started : https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03...program-after-signing-new-military-agreement/

 

[Indos]

This is fantastic news at multiple levels for sure. A boost in the arm for Tempest for sure. Givne the UK-SA relatioship, a natural step.

Saudia has massively invested in local manufacturing to western standards eg Hawks etc, so this is the next step and they can build large portions of tempest locally.

Saudia R&D contribution would be good - Tempest is Modular - and Saudia can build and integrate their own components and software on top of contributing to the core-Tempest programme.

Tempest is offically "Halal" now.

( And given Saudia Arabia's involvement - it does potentially cut off India getting involved in Tempest due to sensitivity of PAF taking a look at it ? )

I doubt Saudi has much say on the program.

Unlikely India get involve on this. They have already had AMCA and other fighters development. Their hands are already full. Even AMCA needs to compete with the other domestic fighters, they cannot afford to enter Tempest program as it can squeeze more AMCA domestic market at around 120 planes

Actually Saudi is quite potential country as it does have quite large population compared to other rich Gulf countries. They also have massive financial capacity and large territory to protect. They have potential to develop healthy aerospace industry.

European then will likely have 2 different STEALTH fighters after 2035, basically the continuation of competition between Eurofighter vs Rafale that has already happened for decades.

Next Generation Fighter competition will be likely quite fierce.

 

[Indos]

The UK goverment has clarified that these are initial conversations, ie the journey has started : https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03...program-after-signing-new-military-agreement/

Getting 2 countries as partner are already difficult, and they have already had 3 participation. It is indeed not easy to get the fourth one as this is why the title of my thread is not as firm as Jane Defense news title. You need to renegotiate again with the other 2 participant (Italia and Japan) to have 4 countries participation.

There will be negotiation with the Saudi that can delay the development for sure. We will see what happen

For KFX/IFX program, there is about 2 years delayed period between LOI and Contract for join development. LOI is in 2009, MOU is in 2010 and contract is in 2011. The development start in 2011 (Technology Development Phase)

 

[Edevelop]

A step in the right direction. The British companies are finally realizing the benefit of exporting products without the approval of the United States. We have already seen them offer Turkiye Eurofighters and ships and ToT for the TFX project's engines.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think Egypt may fare better -

Plus their overarching loyalty to the GCC ensures they have a lot more buoyancy available to them.

Unfortunately, Egypt's dealing with its own IWT-type issues with Ethiopia, and that too with little resistance (due to an anemic economy).

River Nile dam: Why Ethiopia can't stop it being filled

The massive hydroelectric plant is not like a bath with a tap that can be turned on and off at will.

www.bbc.com

This is a recurring issue, but the quality of your elites impacts the quality of your country. The Turks, Emiratis, Moroccans, and perhaps now the Saudis have a bigger vision than just piling up Papa John's franchises and Canadian real estate.

I think Pakistan had something like decent elite leadership up until the 1970s. We keep harping on it, but ZAB's "nationalization" scheme dealt a killer blow to any idea of an industrial elite. After ZAB, we've built a societal culture where working for the state is the goal (be it as an army officer, judge, politician, bureaucrat, etc) rather than building society itself (to nurture independent private sector growth).

 

[Sinnerman108]

The new Arab isnt the one Pakistanis have been fed the narrative for - that outmoded “cant fight or work without us” is blind fallacy Pakistanis tell themselves. Today’s Arab is smart, educated and entrepreneurial to know exactly what they are doing. Sure, arabs fund programs which the white folks use but that also means they have the highest spec system.

They are pushing for technology to be part of their culture and eventually their reliance will slow down.


They are going all out - MBS is the best to happen to KSA and it will emerge as a juggernaut leaving all behind.

Oh I know all too well; that too first hand in more details then one may imagine.

Today Arabs are as ahead of us, as they were behind in 1970.
and worst of all, in 2023 Pakistan doesn't have the leadership or the vision to even start closing the gap.

 

[Zhukov]

The white people will squeeze arabs to fund their defense program.

In return, the rich princes will be allowed to flaunt the law in europe and US.

Atleast there armies remain inside their Askars and do their jobs efficiently.
They menage to have the most stable countries one can imagine in the most destabalized region of the world speaks for itself.
Unlike our Self Proclaimed Field Marshals and Marshal races who have destroyed our society, economy and country. Corrupted mindset of whole nation into militarism and extremism just to get Dollars from the west. An average Pakistani thinks whole world is our enemy and we are fighting for survival against everyone. Will say more who made them think lile that and who pofits from this mindset.
Anyways Just check the inventory of Armies and airforces these GCC states. We cant even dream of all that state of the art technology as of now.

 

[Oublious]

LOL

What is KSA going to give the project besides money? This is a critcal technology if they go to France project they will get the same treatment . Better join the UAE projects together...

Despite Saudi statement, KSA not joining UK-led FCAS program - at least not yet - Breaking Defense

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia minister of defense Khalid bin Salman said he signed a letter of intent with his UK counterpart regarding the KSA's participation in the Future Air Capabilities Program (FCAS).

breakingdefense.com

 

[Corruptistan]

This is fantastic news at multiple levels for sure. A boost in the arm for Tempest for sure. Givne the UK-SA relatioship, a natural step.

Saudia has massively invested in local manufacturing to western standards eg Hawks etc, so this is the next step and they can build large portions of tempest locally.

Saudia R&D contribution would be good - Tempest is Modular - and Saudia can build and integrate their own components and software on top of contributing to the core-Tempest programme.

( And given Saudia Arabia's involvement - it does potentially cut off India getting involved in Tempest due to sensitivity of PAF taking a look at it ? )

The UK goverment has clarified that these are initial conversations, ie the journey has started : https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03...program-after-signing-new-military-agreement/

Yes, it makes perfect sense. SAMI, GAMI and many other local defense companies are experiencing a boom and critical breakthroughs in numerous technologies (missile, drone, semiconductors, turbines, engines etc.) and the scale of industrialization in KSA in terms of critical industries is massive outside of the weapons industry. Not to mention that KSA is one of the most blessed countries in terms of natural and mineral wealth, most critical minerals are found within KSA, even uranium (5-10% of all uranium is in KSA - the Chinese are already helping KSA since 4-5 years to extract it and use it). As are the investments. KSA already has the best ranked universities in the Muslim World and each year they get 10.000's of new local STEM graduates as well as foreign coming to KSA for work/study as well as those local students studying abroad in the West.

It is just a question of time and not if, KSA becomes largely self-sufficient on most critical fronts in terms of a weapons industry.

Arabs were already the main vehicle during the Islamic Golden Age that lasted for 500 years and almost ended 1000 years ago, as well as a rich and ancient civilization, so I have no doubt that they can excel again.

We see Arabs excelling in the US and West. You would be surprised to see the amount of Arabs working for Western defense firms in France, UK, USA and even nowadays Germany. Similar story with Pakistanis. Unlike Pakistan, the Arabs have unlimited money and political will to reach their goals eventually.

And the good thing with KSA, unlike UAE (which is normal given UAE's small population) is that most of the progress is done by local hands, not hired foreigners.

Anyway we will see, this is one of many good steps in recent times.

As people can see in this thread, they are "cooking" a lot of dishes lately and I love to see it.

Made in KSA

General Dynamics turns the tables on Biden with a giant aircraft engine factory inside Saudi Arabia

defence.pk

 

[Sinnerman108]

Atleast there armies remain inside their Askars and do their jobs efficiently.
They menage to have the most stable countries one can imagine in the most destabalized region of the world speaks for itself.
Unlike our Self Proclaimed Field Marshals and Marshal races who have destroyed our society, economy and country. Corrupted mindset of whole nation into militarism and extremism just to get Dollars from the west. An average Pakistani thinks whole world is our enemy and we are fighting for survival against everyone. Will say more who made them think lile that and who pofits from this mindset.
Anyways Just check the inventory of Armies and airforces these GCC states. We cant even dream of all that state of the art technology as of now.

Maybe true.
Fact of the matter is that the GCC doesn't face the security challenges that we do.
The arabian peninsula has natural water barrier,
and west side is managed through friendly countries.

 

[nahtanbob]

Yes, it makes perfect sense. SAMI, GAMI and many other local defense companies are experiencing a boom and critical breakthroughs in numerous technologies (missile, drone, semiconductors, turbines, engines etc.) and the scale of industrialization in KSA in terms of critical industries is massive outside of the weapons industry. Not to mention that KSA is one of the most blessed countries in terms of natural and mineral wealth, most critical minerals are found within KSA, even uranium (5-10% of all uranium is in KSA - the Chinese are already helping KSA since 4-5 years to extract it and use it). As are the investments. KSA already has the best ranked universities in the Muslim World and each year they get 10.000's of new local STEM graduates as well as foreign coming to KSA for work/study as well as those local students studying abroad in the West.

It is just a question of time and not if, KSA becomes largely self-sufficient on most critical fronts in terms of a weapons industry.

Arabs were already the main vehicle during the Islamic Golden Age that lasted for 500 years and almost ended 1000 years ago, as well as a rich and ancient civilization, so I have no doubt that they can excel again.

We see Arabs excelling in the US and West. You would be surprised to see the amount of Arabs working for Western defense firms in France, UK, USA and even nowadays Germany. Similar story with Pakistanis. Unlike Pakistan, the Arabs have unlimited money and political will to reach their goals eventually.

And the good thing with KSA, unlike UAE (which is normal given UAE's small population) is that most of the progress is done by local hands, not hired foreigners.

Anyway we will see, this is one of many good steps in recent times.

As people can see in this thread, they are "cooking" a lot of dishes lately and I love to see it.

Made in KSA

General Dynamics turns the tables on Biden with a giant aircraft engine factory inside Saudi Arabia

defence.pk

Am I missing something ? I always thought the Gulf Arabs were poor on human resources. Maybe things have changed

 

[James David]

The white people will squeeze arabs to fund their defense program.

In return, the rich princes will be allowed to flaunt the law in europe and US.

Your country can always join if your country have money to spare. if not.. oh well..

 

[Sinnerman108]

Your country can always join if your country have money to spare. if not.. oh well..

my country
and the blood of my people
allow you and your country to make comments like that.

Next time, ensure you know facts and behave in accordance with those facts.

 

[Corruptistan]

Am I missing something ? I always thought the Gulf Arabs were poor on human resources. Maybe things have changed

You thought wrong.