Saudi Arabia wants to buy 600-800 Leopard tanks from Germany

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Its not about india.
Its saudi.
Many among u think saudi should have helped pakistan by buying al-khalid.
But they went for kafir maal anyway, because kafir tech is better - the land of mecca thinks.

Hindu kafirs like urself can not understand logic.

 

[POST_HUMAN_WAR]

Its not about india.
Its saudi.
Many among u think saudi should have helped pakistan by buying al-khalid.
But they went for kafir maal anyway, because kafir tech is better - the land of mecca thinks.

When buying a tank when has to look at the following things:

*Price tag
*Relation with supplier
*Infrustruce
*Geography of ones country
*Politcal reasons
*Histroy and reliblity of supplier
*Maintaince
*weight
*Performence
*Transfer of tehnology
*usage of fuel

It had more to do with politics than the MBT performence(thank you nabil_05 for clarying) read below


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan: (PNS) - A 23-member Royal Saudi Land Forces evaluation team headed by Maj Gen Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Shehri visited Pakistan for evaluation of indigenously manufactured products of Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT).

The evaluation team was warmly welcomed by the Chairman HIT, who gave them an exhaustive briefing on the capability of HIT and its potential for marketing sophisticated weapon systems suiting the dictates of modern warfare.

The Saudi team showed keen interest in state-of-the-art and pride of Pakistan Armour, Al-Khalid tank and APC Saad, and carried out intensive in-house technical evaluation and trials.

During the arduous trials under most inhospitable environments, the roaring Al-Khalid, a marvel of tank technology performed astoundingly well. It is for the first time that a Main Battle tank (Al-Khalid) attained 100% hits at a distance of 4,000 meters and set an unprecedented record in tank technology.

Al-Khalid also fired while moving, on a moving target at various ranges upto a distance of 3,000 meters and achieved 100% results. The lethality and accuracy of the weapon stations of Al-Khalid, its high power to weight ratio and manoeuvrability demonstrated in the most hostile terrain speaks volumes of its agility and combat capability to challenge any tank of the world.

Saudi Master Gunner, Subedar Major Yahya Bin Ahmed Atif achieved the rare feat of hitting a bulls eye at extreme ranges with 100% accuracy and achieved record firing results with a few days training only, indicative of user friendliness of Tank Al-Khalid.

The delegation was highly impressed with the performance of tank Al-Khalid and APC Saad during arduous trials. The new generation, APC Saad of Pakistan Armed forces has also been totally manufactured in Pakistan with a vision to meet the demands of 21st century battlefield.

Pakistan is rightfully proud of its engineers and technicians who envisioned, designed and manufactured such combat multipliers, giving its Armed Forces the power punch and capability to face any challenge to its national security.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...t-2000-information-pool-15.html#ixzz1y6qirHXb
(thank you desert fox for the source)
By your logic the Abharms are weaker then the Al Khalid and the Merkava because both Isreal and Pakistan refused it.

Requirements met by al-khalid


KSA had in principle agreed to buy 150 Al-Khalid tanks worth $600 million. All trails are COMPLETED and some modification have already made to Al-Khalid. (current Al Khalid)

1- Trials at 55 C were successful with very fine dust not making any impediment on the engine and performance of the tank. (not many Indian Tanks have achieved that)

2- Turret power control now is all electrically controlled backed by manual control (KSA)

3- A new European Renk LSG 3000 transmission has been incorporated (KSA) (SESM 500 for Pak)

4- There is some type of ‘special’ armor has been installed. During trails this ‘special’ armor (on the hull and turret) tested through live firing which defeated all types of 120 & 125 mm tank projectiles. (PA & KSA) (this is the armor is was talking about)

5- Modifications have been completed which resulted in increasing the 125 mm rounds from 39 to 49

6- Ammo storage for 12.7 & 7.62 mm has increased from 1,000 to 1,500 and 4,000 to 7,100 rounds respectively, thus, making Al-Khalid the most heavily weaponized tank in the world.

7- The power pack (engine, transmission & cooling system) can be removed in 30 minutes and reinstalled in 35 minutes.

8- KSA Al-Khalid will be equipped with (PA also), IBMS (PA also), and active threat-protection system.



Peru's requirements were:

1) Capability of withstanding modern ammo fired by 120L55 from distances higher than 2000 meters.
2) Acceptable capability of resisting a Spike hit.
3) Capability of tracking and destroying a Leo-2A6 from 2800 meters in all weather conditions.
4) Delivery of tanks within a year.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-mbt-2000-information-pool-2.html#post2078381

 

[Zarvan]

Deal for around 300 tanks is about to be signed, newspaper says
ReutersPublished: 13:35 June 17, 2012
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see old link http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/118240-leopard-2a7-saudi-arabia.html


Berlin: Saudi Arabia wants to buy 600 to 800 Leopard battle tanks from Germany, at least twice the number previously expected, a German newspaper reported on Sunday.
A deal for around 300 tanks was about to be signed, Bild am Sonntag newspaper said in a report sent to Reuters ahead of publication.
The newspaper said that while there was opposition to the deal in Germany’s Chancellery, Foreign Ministry and Defence Ministry, there was support for it within the Economy Ministry.
“The Saudi order could secure the future of German tank-makers Krauss-Maffei Wegman and Rheinmetall, which urgently need new markets because of the restructuring of the German army,” said Bild am Sonntag.
A German government spokeswoman declined to comment.
Last year, Germany denied reports that it had agreed to export 270 Leopard tanks to Saudi Arabia. Exports of military equipment cannot be officially acknowledged as they are confidential and disclosure is punishable by a fine or jail. Opposition lawmakers heaped pressure on Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government after reports it had cut a secret deal to sell the tanks, saying it contravened the country’s export guidelines for military hardware.
Arms exports are a sensitive issue in Germany given its Nazi past as well as the role arms makers like Krupp played in feeding 19th and 20th century wars with exports to both sides of conflicts.
Germany has refrained from exporting heavy weapons to Gulf states in the past, given its close relationship with Israel and more recently because of the so-called Arab Spring.
Citing industry sources, Bild am Sonntag said Saudi Arabia wanted to sign the deal by July 20.
Spanish firm General Dynamic/Santa Barbara would produce the tanks under licence by the German firms, the newspaper said.


gulfnews

Saudi Arabia should also increase its number of soldiers and also improve training because if they don't have well trained soldiers than these tanks will prove worse than toys for Saudi Arabia in any kind of war and they should try to get them with TOT and start producing them in their own country

 

[POST_HUMAN_WAR]

Saudi Arabia should also increase its number of soldiers and also improve training because if they don't have well trained soldiers than these tanks will prove worse than toys for Saudi Arabia in any kind of war and they should try to get them with TOT and start producing them in their own country

According to Mosamania they are trying to increase their number of troops to 500,000 strong.

 

[The SC]

Guys can I ask any of you that is knowledgeable on tanks to tell us if Sauds could have done a similar deal with Pakistan and or Turkey?

The technology is very advanced and I think even Pakistan will want to get it hands on a few.
Although I am pretty sure the Altay will be a very advanced Tank, it is still in the making and not ready or tested thoroughly.
There is most probably some future procuremnt projects for the Altay and AlKhalid MBT to supplement and complement the Abrams and the leopards.


leopard 2 revolution upgrade

 

[Zarvan]

It is funny watching you lot whine about why "No co-operation" between Pakistan or turkey. Well Al-Tay is heavily derived from the Leopard 2s. We want the Leopards because they have the best tech in the world right now. We are also not signing a single defense deal since 2006 without ToT.

The rule is simple "If we can't make it after buying it we don't want it". From the Typhoon to the leopard we are following this policy. Sure it will be all nice and rosy for Muslim countries to work together and be like a peach however this doesn't work in the real world. The Land Forces strategic command has a certain set of requirements that even the modern M1A2 didn't pass and had to be upgraded to M1A2S standards to hopefully meet some of them.

We need something that works in all of KSA environments from our rigid extremely mountainous regions of the west amd south to our vast burning deserts of east. We need something that will link up to our military satellites. We need something that can stop more than 1200mm AT shells. We need something that puts crew safety to the highest of standards. We need something that is in the class of heavy battle tanks of 55+ tonnage. We need something that is able to cross our big country is short notice. We need something that can go for a long distance without refueling. Even the T-90 was so heavily tested until it's engine broke down. And above all else we need something with ToT and full spare parts production license.

The Leopard 2s fits our requirements like a glove. It has been our choice for some time now that a factory was built on the Leopard2 specifications already. Helping Muslim brothers is so good and all but requirements on the battlefield to ensure a victory over invaders or the likes iand the safety of our soldiers and people is even more important.

When will you follow this rule for Submarines and Frigates and other stuff ?

 

[cabatli_53]

That's the latest Otokar image pointing places of crew/munition store along with chassis design revealed by a serious defence magazine.

At turret/chassis, The driver section is stationed in the middile of the front (As It is updated ), While turret design is looking almost same with well-known first design image revealed by Otokar (Altay with add on armours).

The mock-up revealed by Otokar in IDEF was Altay BHT (Ballistic hull and turret) design which Roktsan made add-on armours haven't been applied yet.

That's Altay BHT

With Roketsan designed add-on armours on eachsides and front section, Final look of Altay will be similar to that,

At design image (First image), The Roketsan add-on armours are clear When It is checked the area electronics occured (Aft side looking to Altay turret).

With that design, Final Altay will be one of the best looking and attractive main battle tank along with Leopard A-6 and Merkava on the World.

With Roketsan Armours and Electronics, FCS technology specially developed by Aselsan, Altay MBT will be called as 3+ Generation tank of the World.

 

[Desert Fox]

German Tanks were always and continue to be the BEST Tanks in the world. Historically Germans were the pioneers of Armored Warfare.


The Famous German Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, AKA the "Desert Fox" () was the genius behind the fast Panzer formations and their pincer movements which he used to his advantage during the Blitzkrieg on France in 1940 as well as his Afrika Korps outflanking maneuver that caught the british from their weakest points during the North African campaign.

In fact, during Operation Desert Storm the Americans employed the exact tactics and strategy which Erwin Rommel used against the british some 60-70 years ago. There is a story that a captured high ranking Iraqi soldier being held in an American APC saw a poster of Erwin Rommel hanging in the vehicle and asked his American captors "why do you have the image of your former adversary hanging in your Tank?", the American replied "Shut up!! If you knew anything about the man then you wouldn't be here!".

The most feared Tank of the War, the Konigstiger:

In honor of the Afrika Korps and their gallant General:

Afrika Korps - Panzer rollen in Afrika vor. - YouTube

 

[OrionHunter]

Good God Almighty! The stuff you guys are getting - from aircraft to tanks in their hundreds - are you going to outsource the manpower required to man them? Do you have so many princely sheiks to get 'dirty' seeing that they are used to their flamboyant lifestyles?

And then your only adversary in the region is Iran. You have no contiguous borders with it. How are you gonna use your over-sized tank force against them? By making a flyover across Iraq??

 

[cabatli_53]

BTW, Leopard 2NG program is commenced to test the Altay MBT's Electronics/FCS, designed/developed by Aselsan, on a proven chassis until Altay MBT prototypes become ready on field.

 

[Mav3rick]

But the point is that Muslims are disparately trying to build indigenous manufacturing capabilities. They could have assisted Pakistan or Turks and got a better deal.

We will never as Muslims be anything if we keep buying weapons from west etc. i know sometimes it is unavoidable but perhaps some brothers on here who are knowledgeable on tanks can tell us why this was not possible

I was wondering the same thing, 10 Billion Euro investment in Al-Khalid II could have produced a winner for both the countries.

When you have money you want the best. The leo is top dog.
I also think they don't want Russian based tanks after seeing how easily Iraq went down in both wars. Also from seeing the Arab- Israeli wars.
An I think Iranian tanks are also Soviet based, which is perhaps why they went for the German one.

Anyhow good for them, they need to build up their army to counter Iranian agression.

Are you serious, I mean what does Iran really have that could threaten Saudi Arabia with the toys that SA has acquired in the past 15 years?

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

Aselsan Next Gen looks really good imo

 

[Mav3rick]

With all due respect and love to our Pakistani brothers and products but I can't believe you guys comparing Leopard 2A7 with Al-khalid.

It's even superior to American Abrams m1a2 in protection, mobility, fire power and in almost everything.

Care to compare how it is superior to Al-Khalid and to the newer Al-Khalid II (development/testing)?

 

[Deno]

Common guys this is not Turkish Defence subforum, this is Saudi Defence news...

Lets just say enjoy it to Sauds

or in Turkish

Güle güle kullan (Use it with smile) though don't think that there will be a lot of smiles in opposing force against Leos...

 

[cabatli_53]

Altay turret

Merkava MK 4

Leo 2 A6