Saudi Arabia mulls NATO-like military alliance of Muslim countries, asks Pakistan to lead

[Tipu7]

So you do not have a logical answer?



Good. Sectarian war. Who is the opponent? The coalition is against Iran. Let's say it out loud. Iran is a nation. Saudi is a nation. Going by your definition, killing another in the name of land is forbidden. So what exactly is happening here?

Or are you saying that it is a Shia vs Sunni war, since you said its sectarian? Because, that is a whole different discussion. Because, Pakistan has Shias as well. What if they fight on the side of Iran, but not on the side of Pakistan, since nation concept is wrong.

Muslim Government vs Muslim Government. Fight for geopolitical interests in different thing.
Muslim Government vs Hindu Government, this is different and more severe.

Soldiers, fighting shoulder to shoulder. against common enemy, and dying together.............. will end up with same fate in after life.........................

 

[Zarvan]

So US Muslim fighting against Iraqi Army is also not ok. Got it. All Indian Muslims are going to hell, because they did not side with pure Pakistan Army. The debate whether the Pakistani Army is a 'true Muslim' Army is a different arguement, but lets not go there. It will open a can of worms.

But you still did not answer my query. You said Saudi coalition is against Iran. So here Muslims killing Muslims is ok? So the US strategy of making Muslim countries fight each other is perfectly ok. Else, they go to hell? @C130 @boomslang @gambit

I am a little confused here. Is it ok, if I call in a few of your compatriots to explain more clearly, since I have been asking this query and you are not answering the same? And I am not calling any Iranians, because, that will blow this thread.

@Oscar @waz @WAJsal @Armstrong @Hyperion @Zarvan

Let me also add the ever benevolent @Horus to this?

Even if KSA manages to get most Sunni Country together and form a blog it would be great boost to Saudi Arabia and Muslim world but eventually Shia majority countries should be added also.

 

[Indos]

What do u think they will form alliance with Indonesia and Pakistan?

Indonesia and Pakistan has made strategic defense cooperation in the beginning 2014, and I dont know what will be happening in the future as it relates to our future domestic political landscape.

 

[Nike]

Let me ask you a simple question. If Indonesia is under threat are countries like Pakistan more like to come to your help or countries like Britain and Germany or Holland?

last time, when Indonesia under Tsunami disaster, the one who responded our plea in real time and quickly move under pretense of humanitarian assistance is USA followed by Australia and Japan, not the Muslim countries. So if Indonesia want to seeks allies, the one who can get to our aid faster and had better armed Navy like US of A is a much preferred choice given our Nature as Archipelago countries. And so far, none of Muslim Countries had a great Navy and Naval tradition.

 

[KN-1]

Indonesia and Pakistan has made strategic defense cooperation in the beginning 2014, and I dont know what will be happening in the future as it relates to our future domestic political landscape.

i take it as just sweet words.. we dont need each other for defense? do we bro? Indonesia have no potential enemy..

I think Pakistan dont need any alliance at all. we can alone deal with India.. if necessary then maybe we will file our case for NATO membership or look toward China..

 

[Kompromat]

Wasn't talking about international aid but a state of full scale conflict. If you think countries like Australia will stand with you, i feel pity for you because me spending a decade in Australia gives me the feeling that you are entirely wrong.

last time, when Indonesia under Tsunami disaster, the one who responded our plea in real time and quickly move under pretense of humanitarian assistance is USA followed by Australia and Japan, not the Muslim countries. So if Indonesia want to seeks allies, the one who can get to our aid faster and had better armed Navy like US of A is a much preferred choice given our Nature as Archipelago countries. And so far, none of Muslim Countries had a great Navy and Naval tradition.

 

[surya kiran]

Muslim Government vs Muslim Government. Fight for geopolitical interests in different thing.
Muslim Government vs Hindu Government, this is different and more severe.

Which brings us to the conclusion, that hence the best strategy is to make a Muslim government(whatever that means) to fight with a Muslim government.

Now coming to your second point, so people from any other country who happen to be Muslims fighting for their countries in the Middle East are going to hell as per the regulations you stated, correct? Let us not even get in to a discussion of who is on the 'right' side of heaven or God.

But, you did not answer my query completely. This coalition is sectarian as you pointed out. Now you said its geopolitical. So it is a geopolitical sectarian coalition. Now, if Shias in Pakistan refuse to fight the Iranians since the concept of nation state are not relevant and support the Iranians, that is allowed?

Even if KSA manages to get most Sunni Country together and form a blog it would be great boost to Saudi Arabia and Muslim world but eventually Shia majority countries should be added also.

But tipu says its a coalition against Iran and its sectarian. So how can the Shia majority countries be part of a coalition which was formed to fight them? I think, there is some confusion here.

 

[Tipu7]

This coalition is sectarian as you pointed out. Now you said its geopolitical. So it is a geopolitical sectarian coalition. Now, if Shias in Pakistan refuse to fight the Iranians since the concept of nation state are not relevant and support the Iranians, that is allowed?

Why Muslim countries are reluctant to join this alliance?
for same reason.................... Its Sunni Alliance, not Islamic Alliance................

 

[surya kiran]

Why Muslim countries are reluctant to join this alliance?
for same reason.................... Its Sunni Alliance, not Islamic Alliance................

Again you are not answering the question. If Pakistan joins the alliance and Pakistani Shias fight on the side of Iran, that will be ok. Since, the concept of religion is above the concept of a nation state. Correct?

 

[Gibbs]

remember the time when British ruled Indonesia and Sub continent............... and British sent Indian soldiers to crush the freedom movement of Indonesia? And ''muslim Indian soldiers'' refused to shot at Indonesians and joined their ranks instead.
Pure example to give, if someone ask you how fighting purely for ''nationalism'' is fitna under specific conditions, as declared by Islam..................

Brits never ruled Indonesia, The Dutch did

 

[Tipu7]

If Pakistan joins the alliance and Pakistani Shias fight on the side of Iran, that will be ok. Since, the concept of religion is above the concept of a nation state. Correct?

Pakistan will not Fight against Iran .....................
India is different case though

 

[Indos]

Brits never ruled Indonesia, The Dutch did

You are right, but British came too to fight us along with Dutch forces after we proclaim Independence

We were sandwiched by them ..........

 

[Gibbs]

You are right, but British comes too to fight us along with Dutch forces after we proclaim Independence

We are sandwiched by them ..........

That was because Indonesian independence movement ran parallel to the fight in Malaya.. The Malayan insurgency was one of the toughest the colonial Brits had to face, But my point is that British Indian subjects were more or less used in Malaya than in the Dutch East Indies contrary to what @Tipu7 tried to convey

 

[Nike]

Wasn't talking about international aid but a state of full scale conflict. If you think countries like Australia will stand with you, i feel pity for you because me spending a decade in Australia gives me the feeling that you are entirely wrong.

Given you spending time a decade in Australia doesn't made you an expert in Indonesia Strategy and Challenge suddenly

that's why i said, given our nature and geography challenge if Indonesia want to seek allies, better with the one who had a strong Navy, and none of Muslim Country had a strong Navy. China or US and her allies including Australia, only two choice and none of Muslim Countries is on our count

Let me ask you a simple question. If Indonesia is under threat are countries like Pakistan more like to come to your help or countries like Britain and Germany or Holland?

It was Indonesia who likely to aid Pakistan no vice versa

 

[surya kiran]

Pakistan will not Fight against Iran .....................

Again, you dodged the question.

Statement 1 : This is what you said, "If Pakistan is supposed to lead the alliance then we should agree on that"
Statement 2 : You also said, "Islam forbids such nationalism which bring conflict of blood with your brother Muslim nation."
Statement 3 : You also said, it is a sectarian war.

Now, if you join this coalition, which you said you should if you lead it, then you are going against Islam. This is as per your own posts. But, let us assume, you are allowed to lead it, which though unIslamic, you decide to do. Then you are fighting Iran. Because, this coalition is sectarian as you pointed out. So, if you lead it you will fight Iran.

Now do you understand my question? What happens if the Pakistani Shia decides to side with Iran, which is his sect, since the concept of nationhood as per your definition is invalid in the larger scheme of things. Will he go to hell? Is he a Shia Pakistani or a Pakistani Shia? If there is no nation state then he is a Shia Pakistani?