Saudi Arabia Has Started An Arms Race

[Awan68]

Saudi are planning for 302 F-15s and 72 Eurofighters. 374 4.5th gen fighters. Now, you yourself said the JF-17 would have to be bought "ample number". What is an ample number of JF-17s compared to 374 state of the art, supa dupa expensive 4.5th gen fighters? 500 JF-17? 750? 1000?

Sometimes, it is cheaper and easier on logistics to go for quality over quantity, especially given the high technological demands of aerial combat. I'm thinking stealth which is ambitious I know, but it seems the only option to me.


Related, but not necessarily the main topic.

Jf 17 block 3 only lags behind in the payload, range capacity, hence the mention of su 30 for deep penetration.

Stealth???, be realisitc man, even if u do manage to accomplish it , that will take atleast a decade to pay off.

Again realistically speaking, what other options do u have besides su 30's, su 35's and jf 17??

A diverse airforce is a good airforce.

 

[Fafnir]

Versuche nicht, diesen Thread zu ficken, oder ich rufe Serpentin an.

Well we got the S-300PMU2, in all honesty it takes more than 5 years to hammer out a co-production deal with the Russians for Su-30s, assuming that's actually what they are going for. Remember, its transfer of arms, not signing a piece of paper that is banned.

Oh I know that but five lost years is still five lost years and who knows what might happen/change in the next 3+ years,the west and russia could mend fences and become the best of bum chums again like they were back in the 2000s where russias utter unreliability regards honoring their agreements with iran is a simple matter of record.Personally If I was iran I wouldnt just be looking toward russia for aircraft,I`d be looking at china and maybe even as a longshot france as unlikely as that may seem.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Jf 17 block 3 only lags behind in the payload, range capacity, hence the mention of su 30 for deep penetration.

And speed... and manoeuvrability... oh crap I hope this won't mutate into an Indian AF vs Pakistani AF thread, please no... You said yourself JF-17 would have to be bought in numbers. This is difficult considering the opponent has 374 aircraft.

Stealth???, be realisitc man, even if u do manage to accomplish it , that will take atleast a decade to pay off.

Well, one theory is that Iran is pursuing Su-30s as a short term solution while it embarks on a long development path for a domestic 5th gen aircraft. Sniggering aside, that's a hypothesis. I mean, I don't see how the Russians are going to sell such a huge number of Su-30s. Iran and Russia do not have good recent historical military relations.

Again realistically speaking, what other options do u have besides su 30's, su 35's and jf 17??

 

[Śakra]

iran should pursue an arms race against a country that is much richer snd and has powerful allies like America and UK. It's a very dangerous thing to do.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Oh I know that but five lost years is still five lost years and who knows what might happen/change in the next 3+ years,the west and russia could mend fences and become the best of bum chums again like they were back in the 2000s where russias utter unreliability regards honoring their agreements with iran is a simple matter of record.Personally If I was iran I wouldnt just be looking toward russia for aircraft,I`d be looking at china and maybe even as a longshot france as unlikely as that may seem.

France, lol, or as they say, hon hon hon.

I think China is a valid option. Not sure why it was turned down as an option so quickly. Engines? Or some sort of political cable from the Chinese that they were "not selling"?

 

[C130]

war between KSA and Iran would be just plain stupid. how much money did Iraq/Iran lose during their little war?? a couple hundred billion each??

Iran is fragile (economically) KSA is also fragile (economically) you start blowing up each other oil tankers,ports, and oil fields, you're going destroy both your economies, and who gains the most from this?? Israel of course, and I guess the U.S since we aren't as reliant on Middle East oil as we were 20 years ago.

if you can't see this then there is no hope.

 

[Awan68]

And speed... and manoeuvrability... oh crap I hope this won't mutate into an Indian AF vs Pakistani AF thread, please no... You said yourself JF-17 would have to be bought in numbers. This is difficult considering the opponent has 374 aircraft.



Well, one theory is that Iran is pursuing Su-30s as a short term solution while it embarks on a long development path for a domestic 5th gen aircraft. Sniggering aside, that's a hypothesis. I mean, I don't see how the Russians are going to sell such a huge number of Su-30s. Iran and Russia do not have good recent historical military relations.

Whatever man, i meant well for iran when i mentioned the jf 17 option which is still dependant upon whether pak china will sell it to u, n u keep coming back with unfounded insults about our fighter which by the way is about to become the backbone of one of the worlds most professional, says a lot about its capability....

 

[AmirPatriot]

Whatever man, i meant well for iran when i mentioned the jf 17 option which is still dependant upon whether pak china will sell it to u, n u keep coming back with unfounded insults about our fighter which by the way is about to become the backbone of one of the worlds most professional, says a lot about its capability....

Suppose JF-17 is a supa dupa fighter jet that can do super well against every fighter jet, ever.

Even in my earlier conservative rating I didn't say it was bad in any way.

You yourself said it must be procured in "ample numbers".

Now, unless you think the JF-17 is better than the F-15 or the Eurofighter Typhoon, we're going to need more than 374, right?

So, what? 400? 500? 600?

Any of those is a very large number!

war between KSA and Iran would be just plain stupid. how much money did Iraq/Iran lose during their little war?? a couple hundred billion each??

Iran is fragile (economically) KSA is also fragile (economically) you start blowing up each other oil tankers,ports, and oil fields, you're going destroy both your economies, and who gains the most from this?? Israel of course, and I guess the U.S since we aren't as reliant on Middle East oil as we were 20 years ago.

if you can't see this then there is no hope.

I'm not saying its good... just that it might happen. And we'd need to be prepared.

And since there is no land border, I don't expect a long war. Some sort of short conflict that would go nowhere except inflating some and deflating some egos, and the UN would probably work something out.

 

[Awan68]

Suppose JF-17 is a supa dupa fighter jet that can do super well against every fighter jet, ever.

Even in my earlier conservative rating I didn't say it was bad in any way.

You yourself said it must be procured in "ample numbers".

Now, unless you think the JF-17 is better than the F-15 or the Eurofighter Typhoon, we're going to need more than 374, right?

So, what? 400? 500? 600?

Any of those is a very large number!



I'm not saying its good... just that it might happen. And we'd need to be prepared.

And since there is no land border, I don't expect a long war. Some sort of short conflict that would go nowhere except inflating some and deflating some egos, and the UN would probably work something out.

U clearly lack understanding of how a defensive offensive airforce integrated with SAM assets on ground is built, u dont have saudi oil money, so u need to do the best with the funds u have... n i dont have the stomach to explain it right now...adios..

 

[AmirPatriot]

U clearly lack understanding of how a defensive offensive airforce integrated with SAM assets on ground is built... n i dont have the stomach to explain it right now...adios..

You said ample numbers. Not me!

 

[Awan68]

You said ample numbers. Not me!

Ample numbers was in regard to the huge fleet that saudis have, it wasnt crticism of the jf 17's capability in any regard.

Lets say iran gets 80-100 jf 17's over the course of time for airdefence role, that is what i consider ample numbers....the only thing iran can do on the AF front is mantain minimum deterence with the saudis, u cant match them in numbers bro, u just cant.

80-100 jf 17's for airdefence/superiority denial over iranian airspace.
30-40 j 16's for deep penetration strike.
A parrallel in house stealth program running which will take 10-15 yrs to materialize.

 

[raptor22]

There is no doubt that we gotta improve our defensive capabilities in all these parts esp air force which is clear as day, but the idea of arm race ain't a good one it is simply a trap which has no end and just profit American arm companies and distract us from real developments , we should be caution about it but follow our plan to modernize our military base on our needs and in a sensible way ... And yes it's true that they are about to receive more weapons but even the weapons they possess right now have not helped them in Yemen , I mean :
They are neighbors , Yemen is one of poorest country in the world and has been under blockade and now facing famine while its military is no match with Saudis' ... and after 3 years they still have got no where whilst they attack Yemen with the help of the co-called mighty coalition ... that's why I think instead of comparing Iran vs Saudi which is downgrading Iran we should have Yemen vs Saudi ... that's their level.
And Americans look at this country and the rest of them like this:

It's just a ransom paid by Saudis to save their a$$es from the mad president, more than 400 billion $ and something while they face budget deficit and cut many subsidies .... the fact that Americans are no longer dependent on Saudis' oil has changed many things.

 

[SOHEIL]

• Saudi Arabia’s King Salman and Donald Trump take turns in attacking Iran as terror backer

Ha Ha Ha ...

 

[TheImmortal]

This is classic containment strategy. In the 1970's, the Shah received all the fancy toys his heart could desire including the state of the art F-14. The goal? Not to deter Saudi Arabia but to stand as a bulwark against the Soviet Union. America was using Iran as a pawn. Saudi Arabia is the pawn today in the strategy of a US pivot to a rising China, it needs a country capable of countering Iran when US reduces its presence.

You don't necessary arm a country for hundreds of billions of dollars to start a war. You do it as deterrence and economical for your own benefit.

It doesn't matter if Saudi Arabia had F-22's, war would completely devaste that nation. Iran could take Saudi oil fields offline for months if not years. Can you imagine the hit to world economy if 8-11 million barrels/ day of oil are taken offline? It could cause a massive world wide economic downturn.

That's truly why a massive war will not happen because the costs are too great, a small skirmish however unlikely is more possible.

NATO is the counter to Russia, it's a deterence/containment strategy. So an Arab NATO would be to contain Iran to the Iraq borders realistically because Iraq has fallen.

Not worried about this deal at all, in fact it bolsters Iran by continuing to focus on his military rather than taking the foot off the pedal.

Because of this deal, many projects in iran could now possibly receive green light for production as well as R&D of new technologies.

Nothing in this deal gives Saudi Arabia a strategic advantage. Iran will respond in kind in its own way.

 

[Fafnir]

France, lol, or as they say, hon hon hon.

I think China is a valid option. Not sure why it was turned down as an option so quickly. Engines? Or some sort of political cable from the Chinese that they were "not selling"?

Dont you mean non,non,non
Yes,I think france is unlikely too,however I wouldnt completely rule it out and I mention it because the french have been rather desperate to try and make the rafale an export sales success with mixed results so far,unfortunately its been up against the other "eurocanards" the typhoon and cheaper gripen,altho all 3 of these machines are hideously overpriced for what they are in my opinion certainly compared to machines like the su30/su35.Now the french were banking on the indian mmrca deal which would`ve been for over a hundred machines including licensed production in india,however for various reasons this deal fell thru and now india is only looking at buying 36-odd french built rather than the 100+ it originally intended.Now what if iran were to offer the french a deal along these lines:Iran will purchase 200+ rafales with 100 manufactured in france and the other 100+ license built along with engines/avionics/weapons in iran,now this would be a HUGE!! deal and there is some precedent for this as I recall that back in the 90s the french were willing to sell iran a large number of mirages,now these were older models,but I think that the possibility does exist.Now personally I happen to think that the su30 is a much better machine than the rafale,or indeed any of the eurocanards for that matter,and far better suited to irans needs both in outright performance/capabilities and as a successor to the f14,but one takes what one can get ie a rafale in the had is worth two su30 in the bush so to speak.Now all of this is just an idea but I do think it is an option and that is why I mention it and it would potentially give iran more choices and options than just being forced to rely on the good will and trustworthiness of the reliably unreliable,untrustworthy russians,of course I wouldnt really trust the french either,altho iran does have at least one card it can play with them ie puegoet and renault,iran is one of the biggest foreign markets for these companies....now if iran was to reconsider doing business with these companies or indeed breaking off all ties then...well it wouldnt be that cheap for the french auto industry thats for sure,lots of jobs,and potential votes,on the line...,Anyway its just a thought,what do you think?.