Saudi Arabia expresses interest in JF-17 co-production with Pakistan.

[Janmejay]

I don’t know what to call it without being rude for the Gulf countries to let the oil reserves run out without developing their industrial base … … To spend all these billions without looking at tech transfers and at a minimum, establish some basic armament industry. They have the money to match Iran, India, Pakistan, South Africa, Turkey, etc. … … I have watched them ink all these deals and always asked why it is that they don’t slowly start a defense industry and buy into partnerships. It takes years but it is never too late to start.

Do you exactly know when there oil will come to end?? I read somewhere that it is enough to be used by 2040.

 

[Tempest II]

Do you exactly know when there oil will come to end?? I read somewhere that it is enough to be used by 2040.

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At the 2013 rate of production and current reserves estimates, US has almost 12 years of oil production remaining. Excluding oil sands, Canada's reserves to production ratio is 4 years. Saudi Arabia's current reserves estimate would last another 77 years, and Kuwait's reserves would produce at its current rate for 105 years.

 

[Aslan]

Saudis are using Pakistan's name for bargaining with Americans. All three concerned must know what it is about. I do not see anything coming out of it, unless KSA's bluff is called and they have to show that they really were not bluffing.

That is one theory, another could be that there is something serious coming out, and already mentioned by some very reliable senior members. So lets see. One thing is certain that the Saudi American relations are not like they were 3-4 years ago.

 

[Usman Ali 1999]

do the chinese have any problem with jf-17 sales to saudi?????
just asking!!!!

no they have no problem selling it to saudi airforce ........even pakistan can sell their nuclear bomb to saudis.......u know that friend that this hurts but reality is that they can refuse it to india not to a brother muslim country.......

 

[Chak Bamu]

no they have no problem selling it to saudi airforce ........even pakistan can sell their nuclear bomb to saudis.......u know that friend that this hurts but reality is that they can refuse it to india not to a brother muslim country.......

You just revived a dead thread to say this?

 

[DrWatson775]

Saudis are using Pakistan's name for bargaining with Americans. All three concerned must know what it is about. I do not see anything coming out of it, unless KSA's bluff is called and they have to show that they really were not bluffing.

Agree. Ammunition and small arms aside.. KSA is unlikely to buy JF-17s.
There may be a possibility of a tank deal.... but I'm not too optimistic.

 

[The SC]

Actually the EF is a more than medicore multi role fighter and even the coming upgrades funded by Saudi Arabia won't help that much (Storm Shadow and most likely Brimstone), but for air superiority it's excellent. They are basically changing the F15 from air superiority to strike roles, which the huge A2G ammo purchase shows as well.
Of course, IF such a sale happens, it clearly would be a boost for Pakistan.

This only shows that European fighter jets are mediocre some how; issues with The Tornado (bought because the US did not want to sell it F-15s (I still remember that episode and the AWACS one), the EF to diversify the sources because no advanced F-16s to KSA. Now they have to reassign roles of their Air forces, like the F-15s going for a ground strike role while it was conceived primarily for air superiority, is a bit weird.

If KSA decides to invest in the J-17 program it will gain a very potent all weather alternative and reliable fighter with any input it wants in it, like an AESA radar, the best electronic suites, the best avionics out there and the best weapons too, and best over all, it can call it its own by joint venturing it with Pakistan and production in KSA, it will be what I call a fail safe alternative to what ever might happen with the other platforms spare parts or maintenance and repair in case of a crisis.

 

[sancho]

This only shows that European fighter jets are mediocre some how

Not at all, it's just that the EF has certain design flaws and that it was more than slow in it's upgrades, but technically, the Eurocanards belong to the best non stealth fighters that are available today, with systems or capabilities even comparable or equal to counterparts in US 5th gen fighters (SC, avionics, RCS reductions, passive detection and targeting...).
With the new funds from the KSA, the EF now will get a good push too, which still doesn't make it equal to the Rafale, but much better as a multi role fighter (A2A, CAS with a variety of weapons, cruise missile attack, although range limited). IF it would gets AESA, CFTs and a the SPEAR 3 (or a similar stand off PGM), it would beat any non 5th gen fighter in all roles. But all that requires more fundings and might be available only by 2018 to 2020).

If KSA decides to invest in the J-17 program it will gain a very potent all weather alternative and reliable fighter with any input it wants in it, like an AESA radar, the best electronic suites, the best avionics out there and the best weapons too, and best over all, it can call it its own by joint venturing it with Pakistan and production in KSA, it will be what I call a fail safe alternative to what ever might happen with the other platforms spare parts or maintenance and repair in case of a crisis.

Not really, because that would mean that the only limiting factor to make JF 17 highly capable is the lack of funds, but that is not the case. Even with unlimited funding, you won't be able to put latest foreign weapons, radars or systems on it, by the simple fact that they are not provided to China and Pakistan. Not to mention that you have to take to account the aims and limitations of the design itself, which was never intended to be a high end fighter.
So all the KSA could do with their money is, to fund more Chinese upgrades in first place, or to get hands on certain techs and weapons that are available for JFT. At the end of the day however, they have 2 very high capable fighters with the EF and the F15, that don't leave much operational benefit left for a JF 17, no matter what funds you are pushing into upgrades. Since the KSA has no importance of adding a cost-effective to operate fighter, there is no point in at least highlighting better cost-benefit ratio, so that's no point either, which would mainly leave political considerations.

 

[imiakhtar]

Actually the EF is a more than medicore multi role fighter and even the coming upgrades funded by Saudi Arabia won't help that much (Storm Shadow and most likely Brimstone), but for air superiority it's excellent.

Th Brimstone and storm shadow capability is being funded by the British exchequer.

They were planned prior to Saudi ordering any EFs.

 

[FalconsForPeace]

By pouring money in, they can not only mass produce for their respective air forces but actually export it. Currently, there is no aircraft in the market that can offer the most / dollar.

 

[The SC]

Not at all, it's just that the EF has certain design flaws and that it was more than slow in it's upgrades, but technically, the Eurocanards belong to the best non stealth fighters that are available today, with systems or capabilities even comparable or equal to counterparts in US 5th gen fighters (SC, avionics, RCS reductions, passive detection and targeting...).
With the new funds from the KSA, the EF now will get a good push too, which still doesn't make it equal to the Rafale, but much better as a multi role fighter (A2A, CAS with a variety of weapons, cruise missile attack, although range limited). IF it would gets AESA, CFTs and a the SPEAR 3 (or a similar stand off PGM), it would beat any non 5th gen fighter in all roles. But all that requires more fundings and might be available only by 2018 to 2020).



Not really, because that would mean that the only limiting factor to make JF 17 highly capable is the lack of funds, but that is not the case. Even with unlimited funding, you won't be able to put latest foreign weapons, radars or systems on it, by the simple fact that they are not provided to China and Pakistan. Not to mention that you have to take to account the aims and limitations of the design itself, which was never intended to be a high end fighter.
So all the KSA could do with their money is, to fund more Chinese upgrades in first place, or to get hands on certain techs and weapons that are available for JFT. At the end of the day however, they have 2 very high capable fighters with the EF and the F15, that don't leave much operational benefit left for a JF 17, no matter what funds you are pushing into upgrades. Since the KSA has no importance of adding a cost-effective to operate fighter, there is no point in at least highlighting better cost-benefit ratio, so that's no point either, which would mainly leave political considerations.

Usraelis are trying to sell the kfir block 60 with an AESA radar and the the latest avionics put on a forty years old frame and design, Why Pakistan or KSA can not do it with a new design?
Read my post again, it should be a fell safe option for many Muslim countries.

 

[Kompromat]

Usraelis are trying to sell the kfir block 60 with an AESA radar and the the latest avionics put on a forty years old frame and design, Why Pakistan or KSA can not do it with a new design?
Read my post again, it should be a fell safe option for many Muslim countries.

That is one big pipedream.

 

[Indischer]

IMO, Pakistan is not yet a valued brand name in the engineering domain while China has made some giant strides in this aspect. Even if the Thunder is a quality product and better than most offerings in it's class and price, I doubt whether the Pakistan brand-name will bring in customers like KSA. Maybe the Thunder is better off if marketed more eagerly by China.

Although KSA has brought Pakistan-manufactured Trainers before I doubt if they'll plump in for a front-line fighter.

 

[pakdefender]

Saudi Arabia has the money and access to buy front line fighter aircrafts and tanks from American and/or European suppliers and they already have F-15s/F-16s/Eurofighters/Abrams etc in their inventory.

Saudi expressions of interests in JF-17 , while a very welcome sign and gesture , is more political as Pakistan is an important Islamic country.
For Pakistan none the less its good that Saudis are willing to fund some part of the expenditure going on in making JF-17 a front line fighter.

 

[Quwa]

IMO, Pakistan is not yet a valued brand name in the engineering domain while China has made some giant strides in this aspect. Even if the Thunder is a quality product and better than most offerings in it's class and price, I doubt whether the Pakistan brand-name will bring in customers like KSA. Maybe the Thunder is better off if marketed more eagerly by China.

Although KSA has brought Pakistan-manufactured Trainers before I doubt if they'll plump in for a front-line fighter.

Pakistan could manufacture stealth fighters and that still wouldn't convince the likes of Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt, etc to buy from Pakistan. The reality of how these countries do business is such that you'd need to tie your offering with the interests of a leading family or figure, and that isn't happening, given that PAC, HIT, etc, are state owned enterprises. On other hand, we see enterprises in Turkey willingly and happily engaging with their Pakistani counterparts, despite the lack of name in engineering or whatever.