Saudi Arabia expresses interest in JF-17 co-production with Pakistan.

[Umair Nawaz]

Umair, if you remember the Russians initially refused China to sell Russian Engine equipped JF-17 to Pakistan because it had Russian RD-93 because of Indian pressure but later withdrew their objection. The Russians knew that China would still sell to Pakistan with their own engine so they decided to sell.

Russians always like to sell their military hardware to a cash buyer unlike US that sells Military hardware with strings attached. This is why old allies of US ( including Turkey and KSA ) are increasingly turning away from US Military Hardware because there are too many strings attached and the spectacle of " Kill Switches ".

With the constant decrease in relations of SA and Russia on Syrian issue is the problem here........What yr talking about is from 90s or soviat era again different times with different geo-political situation.........

Now with Russia is again stronger and has now different situation to deal with keeping in view the geo political situation of ME in 2014!!!

U remember in early 90s they had even offered Su27s to PAF just 5 years after Afghan War ?one of the reasons was that Russians had destroyed their economy in war and just wanted to sell Defence equipment to keep and running their striving economy without caring whoever they r selling to!!! I think yr referring to whose desperate times.

 

[Bilal.]

Give us the recipe for Al-Baik & we'd consider things even !

Hell no! That should be the prerequisite of even starting the talks!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Don't worry, Russia's engine restriction will no longer be a problem for JF-17's future.

in future= yes.....But the fact of the matter is there is a strong possibility for that right now if SA involves in the project or buys this product and we lack a reliable alternative for engine problem right now!

 

[Pakistanisage]

I would respectfully disagree with you, your earlier post you said they would buy product for Pakistan customize it to their liking give their inputs, so what was wrong with AK-1 they could have invested into it and developed it further No?

Not really. There is so much you can do with a light weight Tank in terms of add ons.

After a while you find yourself redesigning the prototype to a point it is new equipment.

I am not an expert on Tank Design but for a Tank to work in KSA Desert Environment it has to carry large filters to filter out Sand getting into the Engines. This affects the Performance of the Engines so the Engine have to be very powerful. Also running on Sand as opposed to firm ground requires very powerful engines. Now add to it the fact that in the Desert heat the Tank needs powerful air conditioning which again requires very Powerful Engines.

Now these Powerful engines weigh a lot and don't fit in small light weight Tanks. So you see why KSA requires heavy Tanks which can accomodate the requirements of a rugged Desert Terrain ?

The heavier US tank was more appropriate for their environment and had the power and sophistication required by KSA.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Saying that it's speculation and should not be taken seriously is wrong? On the contrary, it is part of the discussion, some think it's a deal, some don't. BTW, I always thought you were one of my fellows. Such speculations when they don't materialise are picked up by our "friendly" neighbours to radicule us later.

Saying that it's speculation and should not be taken seriously is wrong?

We shouldn't act in here as serious as what takes place in reality i.e. we shouldn't act diplomatically.

On the contrary, it is part of the discussion, some think it's a deal, some don't

No, what I was saying is that we can't discourage people in here from having healthy debates such as these. At the same time, no body ever claims in here that the deal is sealed.

I always thought you were one of my fellows

Yes, you truly are. As a friend Pakistan, and the Pakistani people by large, this matter is very important to me. I'd like to hear every single opinion in the spotlight of this issue.

Such speculations when they don't materialise are picked up by our "friendly" neighbours to radicule us later

Let them say whatever they want to say. Many are deadly jealous over this. We always have been accused of being bias. We have been having many military cooperation, such deals aren't far fetched.

On other note, you might need to act like KSA , we ignore all loud voices, we could careless about what others might think. At the end of the day, we always come up with a surprise.

Give us the recipe for Al-Baik & we'd consider things even !

Come there, I will let you have Al-Baik every single second if you wish

 

[Icarus]

Sir with due respect, will Russians allow the engines on jft to be sold to KSA???

We're already in a contract with the Russians for engines which they are obliged to deliver.
For others, we can use Chinese equivalents. Like the WS series.

 

[SQ8]

Trainers ...


They still are jets

No they are not

 

[Umair Nawaz]

We're already in a contract with the Russians for engines which they are obliged to deliver.
For others, we can use Chinese equivalents. Like the WS series.

is the engine ready or reliable enough for international sale?
But i think Aeronaut is right they could go for a western engine but then again the western politics will come in effect as it will be interesting to see them selling their engine for a made in pak a/c.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

in future= yes.....But the fact of the matter is there is a strong possibility for that right now if SA involves in the project or buys this product and we lack a reliable alternative for engine problem right now!

The future will be in 2015-2016, not a decade after.

I bet that KSA already knows that.

 

[Icarus]

is the engine ready or reliable enough for international sale?
But i think Aeronaut is right they could go for a western engine but then again the western politics will come in effect as it will be interesting to see them selling their engine for a made in pak a/c.

When KSA is involved everyone wants a piece of the cake, western players will play their cards carefully. It's platform compatibility with western power plants which may be problem. The Chinese Engines are rumored to be good but I can't vouch for their export potential.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Not really. There is so much you can do with a light weight Tank in terms of add ons.

After a while you find yourself redesigning the prototype to a point it is new equipment.

I am not an expert on Tank Design but for a Tank to work in KSA Desert Environment it has to carry large filters to filter out Sand getting into the Engines. This affects the Performance of the Engines so the Engine have to be very powerful. Also running on Sand as opposed to firm ground requires very powerful engines. Now add to it the fact that in the Desert heat the Tank needs powerful air conditioning which again requires very Powerful Engines.

Now these Powerful engines weigh a lot and don't fit in small light weight Tanks. So you see why KSA requires heavy Tanks which can accomodate the requirements of a rugged Desert Terrain ?

The heavier US tank was more appropriate for their environment and had the power and sophistication required by KSA.

Alot could have been achieved besides going for German/American tanks, AMX-30 replacement AK-1/2 would have been a much better choice. I am understanding your posts but then again here is where inputs/Funds JV comes isn't AK-2 a bit heavier than AK-1 Yes it is it would be as the sophistication comes by the enemy has a better product so will Pakistan have to move towards such equipment be it tanks and aircrafts provided funds.

Anyway the only point without all this discussion is it is a general visit it is a visit to discuss iranian problem supporting saudi point of view, giving charity to Pakistan, giving some lecture to Pakistan and some other letters from US.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

is the engine ready or reliable enough for international sale?
But i think Aeronaut is right they could go for a western engine but then again the western politics will come in effect as it will be interesting to see them selling their engine for a made in pak a/c.

It is reliable, but we just don't have enough production.

Our air force is upgrading too fast, so our current production can barely fulfill our domestic need.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Whatever makes you feel happy sir.

No they are not

 

[Pakistanisage]

Alot could have been achieved besides going for German/American tanks, AMX-30 replacement AK-1/2 would have been a much better choice. I am understanding your posts but then again here is where inputs/Funds JV comes isn't AK-2 a bit heavier than AK-1 Yes it is it would be as the sophistication comes by the enemy has a better product so will Pakistan have to move towards such equipment be it tanks and aircrafts provided funds.

Anyway the only point without all this discussion is it is a general visit it is a visit to discuss iranian problem supporting saudi point of view, giving charity to Pakistan, giving some lecture to Pakistan and some other letters from US.

Please keep an eye on rapidly changing scenario between the US and KSA.

For 7 or 8 decades the US catered to KSA hand in glove because it had no choice due to scarcity of oil.

Now with the glut of oil and with impending Shale drilling of Oil and Gas, that dependency is developing fault lines as we have seen on US handling of Egypt and Syria and Iran over the KSA objections.

KSA is exploring new relationships in light of these new realities and no longer takes dictation from the US or caters to US desires.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

When KSA is involved everyone wants a piece of the cake, western players will play their cards carefully. It's platform compatibility with western power plants which may be problem. The Chinese Engines are rumored to be good but I can't vouch for their export potential.

If any country can match our needs, demands, and standards we can always give them a piece of that cake, as long as they give us the core of the apple