Saudi Arabia and Qatar Ratcheting Up Sectarian and Ethnic Tensions In Iraq

[Controlled Pair]

I understand some Saudi nationals or Wahabi/Salafi movements inspired by Saudi doctrines are operating in Iraq, but I don't see what the Saud family gain from this? surely the Saudi government/regime isn't orchestrating these daily attacks which is basically going against the USA interests.

The British found a lot of Iranian weapons in Iraq. Shaped IED's from Iran.

I don't like how Saudi exports its extreme form of Islam - but there is no comparison between Iran and Saudi in terms of exporting terrorism. Iran stands alone as the number one nation for terrorism. I don't see this from the Saudi government or security forces.

 

[Doritos11]

There are different types of "Al qaeda"

Some are more extreme then others, they do not share the same beliefs over everything.
Thus why eventually FSA and Jahbat al nusra will clash and go to war with each other, if they manage to defeat the Syrian forces.

The US funded the Taliban for their interests, but they also dealt with Taliban attacking them.
Saudi Arabia funds insurgents for their interests, but fights them once they turn against their own regime.


Your right, after 2003 Iraq was heading to a sunni-shia war, it broke out in 2006 especially in Baghdad, Saudi Arabia and Iran were both sending their proxies here.
But now, after the government is formed by a shia majority there is little reason for Iran to send groups and kill the Iraqi soldiers, because Iran&Iraq ties are friendly.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar however are not happy with the current situation, they are openly supporting the same thing in Syria so what is the secret/conspiracy theory about them doing it in Iraq ?

In reality, for Iraq KSA government and Irans government are both the extreme of shia and sunni, none of them are doing us a favour, we do not chose sides, we have little option until 10 years further where Iraq will have more say in the region.

 

[Doritos11]

Apart from this, there is enough evidence that Syria,Iran,Saudi Arabia have sent in their proxies/militias in Iraq after 2003.

1 does not need exact proof for this, using your brain and looking at what is happening in Syria today is enough to know what happened in Iraq.

 

[al-Hasani]

First of all then FSA is not a terrorist group. It is ridiculous to say that. To compare them to Al-Qaeda is madness. Come on, let's get real for a second.

There is no proof whatsoever that the KSA GOVERNMENT is actively supporting Al-Qaeda anywhere. Al-Nusra is and has not been supported or armed by KSA. I don't know about Qatar. KSA has even publicly stated that they fear hardcore extremists close to their borders. They already have Al-Qaeda in Yemen to deal with since they threaten the stability of the Arabian Peninsula and have a long and bloody history of targeting targets inside KSA. Also Al-Qaeda's main goal is to topple the Saudi regime. They consider them their biggest enemy and they make no secret of it.

There is no denying that private founders and single individuals went to Iraq to fight the Americans or engage in a sectarian conflict. So what? All Muslims countries had involvement, Iranians as well.

Iraqis are fighting inside Syria in the thousands. Sunnis for FSA and Shias for Al-Assad and Shia militias. Not to say that Al Nusra's leadership is made up by Iraqis and that Al-Nusra and Al-Qaeda in Iraq are the same coin.

KSA have 3 million Shias inside their borders. Some of the Shias have staged violent protests that have killed innocent people and policemen. They could easily have used the pretext of foreign involvement (Iranian involvement in those protests is well-known) and carpet bomb whole villages and cities under the pretext of the protestors being "terrorists" much like the Child-Murderer does in Syria.

KSA could attack their dear neighbors the Omanis of the Ibadi school of thought. Or the Zaydi's in Yemen. None of that is happening.

Obviously there will be many interests when a whole regime falls in a neighboring country (Iraq) and all the neighbors, rivals and foes, also starts to meddle and have a interest. It forces the other parts to do the same.

KSA is against Maliki just like all the Sunni Arab countries are. Turkey as well. But that does not mean that their governments support Al-Qaeda!

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Also the Iraqis have a bad habit of blaming their neighbors for all their faults be it the Saudis, Syrians in the past, Iranians, Kurds, Turks, Kuwaitis or whatever.

The truth is that sectarian tensions in Iraq dates back to the Kingdom of Iraq and when Iraq was established as a country. Even during the early Islamic history sectarian tensions were the biggest in Iraq! There has always been a Kurdish-Arab conflict and a Sunni-Shia conflict. The Sunnis always ruled Iraq until 2003. Shias staged bloody uprisings in 1991. Before that as well.

It's not like there never was any tensions between Sunnis or Shias inside Iraq before 2003. There is plenty of evidence for the contrary. In fact Iraq has long been the most sectarian country by far in the Arab world and region.

Let us not even get started at the Kurdish-Arab wars/genocides that had nothing to do with religion.

Today as well. Shias and Sunnis are killing each other and the killers are 99 percent of the time Iraqis. Which all the recent arrests confirm.

One cannot always blame foreigners or neighbors.

 

[Hussein]

@al-Hasani >
stop always insult people and blame for being a nationality or having a religion you name "sect".

I already said many times i don't like Khamenei and his policy so stop this crap with me. I never said the policy was good.

But you know Gulf countries sponsor terrorism in Iraq whatever you say or your friends say.
There are many ways to sponsor terrorism or sell weapons . Iran didn't have choice to send directly and UK or USA of course will be happy to blame Iran when they say discovering weapons from Iran. I understand that and i will not blame for it.
But they know very well that weapons as well sold to Gulf countries are US so if they find US weapons this is not terrorism.
As well and more important we all know (if we know a little about weapons) that a lot of trafic occurs in the world: you can buy easily second hand weapons .. and hide where it is coming from. It is easy to buy Russian second hand weapons. for exemple.

The article says very well the political analysis and the obvious support of terrorism by supporting terrorist personality for exemple.
It is said as well Saudis don't want accept democratic Iraq until it is not led by sunnis.

You said about Jundallah... you know where they were coming from right ?
don't you find strange this group was in Emirates ?

Even Mossad used MeK to kill scientists in Iran. As i said from the green movment we knew one of them was not at all pro regime and never worked for nuclear activity: it was not his field at all. Because Mossad trusted these sick guys .

Like USA trust KSA ... when they obviously should remind you to accept democratic Iraq and stop sponsoring terrorism.
As they ask fairly for Iran.

 

[Controlled Pair]

Apart from this, there is enough evidence that Syria,Iran,Saudi Arabia have sent in their proxies/militias in Iraq after 2003.

1 does not need exact proof for this, using your brain and looking at what is happening in Syria today is enough to know what happened in Iraq.

Of course when the sh*t hit the fan in Iraq the Sunni/Shia states piled in their militia.

But we are talking about NOW.

What motive has the Saudi government got in destabilising Iraq at the expense of ruining relations with USA/West?. Do you think the Americans wouldn't notice Saudi government sending in Government-backed militia?

Also don't forget that Saudi hit out hard against Sunni terrorists that were operating in Saudi. These terrorists had the same global Jihad ambitions as those now bombing in Iraq.

Saudi is not perfect, but I don't agree that they're behind the bombings of markets, cafe's etc.

 

[al-Hasani]

Hussein:

Your English is lacking to have a serious discussion with you. You often make no sense. You are not refuting any of my points nor are you able to differentiate between individual support/individual sponsors and individuals going to Iraq to fight or Yemen from state-sponsoring. Whether that is due to the language barrier or not I don't know but it's damaging a serious discussion. It is well-known that Iran is the biggest financier of armed groups in the region and that it is done by the Iranian state and not wealthy Iranian individuals inside or outside Iran.

Nobody denies that Saudi individuals went to Iraq to fight the Americans as did all Arabs, Iranians, Turks, Afghans, Pakistanis and others. Nor do anybody deny that there were rich individual financiers who sponsored attacks on the Americans and later one of the parts during the sectarian war/civil war In Iraq from 2005-2007.

Several Iranian terrorists or Iraqi Shia terrorists who were behind killings in Iraq found/find refugee in Iran. The same cannot be said about any GCC country or Turkey.

The border between KSA and Iraq is CLOSED. And have been closed since before the 2003 invasion even! All single militants from around the world who went to Iraq entered from Syria, Iran and Turkey!

Since when has Iraq become a Western styled democracy? Just because they have elections, just as Syria did, it does not mean that they democracy. Your own Iran has elections as well but we all know that this is a farce. Belarus as well and countless of other non-democratic states.

KSA is apparently against democracy in the region but Iran, despite being a regime as well, is not? Makes perfect sense, LOL.

Also stop replying to me, since you don't know enough about this as I can clearly see. You don't even speak Arabic. I follow Arab politics daily and have a great interest in it and I would say that my knowledge is above average. Enough to differentiate between nonsense and something that is correct or very likely.

 

[Doritos11]

Of course when the sh*t hit the fan in Iraq the Sunni/Shia states piled in their militia.

But we are talking about NOW.

What motive has the Saudi government got in destabilising Iraq at the expense of ruining relations with USA/West?. Do you think the Americans wouldn't notice Saudi government sending in Government-backed militia?

Also don't forget that Saudi hit out hard against Sunni terrorists that were operating in Saudi. These terrorists had the same global Jihad ambitions as those now bombing in Iraq.

Saudi is not perfect, but I don't agree that they're behind the bombings of markets, cafe's etc.

I don’t know the USA’s stance on Iraq, they are the biggest military supplier of Iraq but Iraq-USA alliance is not that strong for all I know.
Iraq has balanced its relations between USA/Russia/Iran.
I do not think the USA has a priority in making Iraq safe from terrorism, the USA has the capability to do that easily, they could provide Iraq with information to build a better effective intelligence agency to deal with all this.
But why would they ?

Btw, It doesn’t have to be only saudis doing this, they do not have to come from the saudi border into Iraq, but I’m pretty sure Saudi/Qatari money has been funding this.
There are many Iraqis doing this terrorism, but the funder is the ones that keeps it going.

 

[Hussein]

@al-Hasani > You have head full of propaganda . you'll never be honnest in this forum.
you're expert to insult people, and worst making strong racist comments .

By the way you say about Afghans ...
Let's speak about them. Who was sponsoring deobandi transformation ideology to manipulate the Afghans in Pakistan and create the talibans . Just get some litterature about it.
You didn't remind yourself that it was KSA sending Ben Laden to Pakistan/afghanistan ?

Where is coming the salafi ideology ? KSA
and now the Gulf countries like Qatar use it too. Even France services blamed Qatar to sponsor rebels in Mali !

 

[al-Hasani]

More barking. If we say that facts are propaganda then I am glad to propagandize! Don't lose your temper, I imagine that you are red as tomato right now.

Seriously your English is limited. There cannot be a serious discussion if you can't understand simple sentences.

Deobani has nothing to do with KSA or Arab lands. They are not even found in the Arab world. Pakistan mostly supports Deobanis. So stop writing nonsense. Deobanis are mostly found in India btw and we all know the Pakistani-Indian rivalry. They are at a state of war and have been that for decades now.

LOL. During the Afghan-Soviet war Muslims from ALL over the world went to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. Al-Qaeda is an American creation and Osama bin Laden has nothing to do with KSA as a state! Again you don't know what you are speaking about not that it is a surprise.

Bin Laden was STRIPPED of his KSA passport and EXPELLED 15 years ago. Before any Al-Qaeda attacks! Bin Laden is half Yemeni and half Syrian btw. He was only born in KSA.

Taliban was/is a indigenous movement in Afghanistan made up exclusively by Pashtuns. Not Arabs.

Salafism has been present since 1400 years ago. The real, original Salafi, does not engage in politics. What you are talking about is Jihadists and Jihad was proclaimed 800 years ago during the crusade and when the Rashidun Army conquered non-Muslims.

Everyone knows that Iran is the biggest STATE-sponsor of terrorism. Your regime lives on exporting your "Islamic revolution" and your regime openly stated that they aim to conquer Makkah and Madinah. Your own Mullah's admit that on camera even.

So more bullshit as expected. Done with you.

 

[Controlled Pair]

I don’t know the USA’s stance on Iraq, they are the biggest military supplier of Iraq but Iraq-USA alliance is not that strong for all I know.
Iraq has balanced its relations between USA/Russia/Iran.
I do not think the USA has a priority in making Iraq safe from terrorism, the USA has the capability to do that easily, they could provide Iraq with information to build a better effective intelligence agency to deal with all this.
But why would they ?

Btw, It doesn’t have to be only saudis doing this, they do not have to come from the saudi border into Iraq, but I’m pretty sure Saudi/Qatari money has been funding this.
There are many Iraqis doing this terrorism, but the funder is the ones that keeps it going.

USA is still very much involved in Iraq. It reflects badly on America when the world sees Iraq as a mess, because they get blamed.

I don't see any motive for Saudi to cause trouble in Iraq.

Now, there may be Saudi nationals involved in organising and funding bombs in Iraq - but that's different than attributing this to the Saudi government.

Some British used to complain that America was funding the IRA - but it had nothing to do with the American government. It was Irish-Americans in places like Boston who used to collect donations in pubs and send to the IRA.

The Iraq bombing campaign is mainly by extremist Sunnis from all over who don't want a Shia-majority democracy.

It's very sad to see a resource-rich region that could become a powerhouse in the world - tear itself apart.

 

[Hussein]

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what i personnaly consider the best newspaper in the world : New York Times :
have a look at this article:

Cash Flow to Terrorists Evades U.S. Efforts

The government cables, sent by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and senior State Department officials, catalog a list of methods that American officials suspect terrorist financiers are using, including a brazen bank robbery in Yemen last year, kidnappings for ransom, the harvesting of drug proceeds in Afghanistan and fund-raising at religious pilgrimages to Mecca, where millions of riyals or other forms of currency change hands.

A classified memo sent by Mrs. Clinton last December made it clear that residents of Saudi Arabia and its neighbors, all allies of the United States, are the chief financial supporters of many extremist activities

“It has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority,” the cable said, concluding that “donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.”

Saudi leaders appear equally resigned to the situation, according to the cables. “We are trying to do our best,” Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, who leads the Saudis’ anti-terrorism activities, was quoted as telling Mr. Holbrooke, the special representative to the region, in a May 2009 meeting.

But, he said, “if money wants to go” to terrorist causes, “it will go.”

 

[al-Hasani]

See you don't understand even the most simple English. I already said that some individuals in KSA supported resistance/terrorists groups inside Iraq and elsewhere. Just like many other nationalities and individuals did, including Iranians. But that does not equal STATE support like your Iran is world famous for. Do you understand this?

Not sure how many times I need to spell it for you or others here.


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Ok, let me tell you something Doritos11. The people who join terrorist groups/resistance groups (call it what you want) in Iraq, Yemen and elsewhere have all one thing in common, if they arrive from KSA. They are agains the KSA regime. Al-Qaeda's MAIN GOAL is to topple the Saudi regime. Not to topple the Iranian regime. KSA have been the third most affected country by Al-Qaeda terrorism in the whole Arab world after Iraq and Yemen, ironically both neighbors of KSA.

KSA FOUGHT against Al-Qaeda in KSA and defeated them. Now only sleeper cells remain. The fact is that the Saudi secret service is among the best in the whole world. This is acknowledged even by the West so they have been kept in check. Lastly the majority escaped to nearby Yemen since that country is unfortunately unstable and Al-Qaeda always operate in unstable countries. Notice Somalia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq and now Syria. KSA is one of the most stable countries in the world with the lowest amount of crimes. Any dissident and you are left headless a few hours later.

KSA's prisons are full of convicted extremists with ties to Al-Qaeda. The 10 most wanted fugitives in KSA are Al-Qaeda members.

Also there is the USA relation. Do you really think that USA, the country who was hit by 9/11 and who are constantly a potential target by Al-Qaeda, would have allowed KSA GOVERNMENT to support Al-Qaeda and Sunni militants in their fight against AMERICAN TROOPS inside Iraq? I mean that's complete and utter nonsense. Like USA would allow that to happen. And we all know which groups killed most Americans.

Those groups have no alliances to any state. They operate solely and on their own in closely-knitted sleeper cells. In chaotic countries that experience conflict, such as those I mentioned, they even often achieve control of whole areas.

Very simple. It is by no means in KSA's interests to have Al-Qaeda elements who are staunchly anti-KSA on their Northern and Southern borders. Makes no sense.

At most, as I said, this is a work of individuals who went to Iraq from all over the world. Those individuals where helped by smugglers and other people who were involved. And all of them went to Iraq from Syria, Iran and Turkey.

Or obviously individual financiers who live abroad or inside their countries.

It's like blaming the Mexican government for sending drug cartels to USA.

Also nobody in Iraq needed any outside weapons. When the Americans invaded Iraq in 2003 hundred of thousands soldiers, policemen etc. that worked for Saddam were dismissed and lost their job and source of income. Do you think that all of them did nothing to fight the Americans and later the Maliki government?

We all know that nearly all of the fighting was/is done by locals. Just as Iraqi Sunnis and Shias fought against each other before 2003 or Arabs against Kurds before as well.

 

[Hussein]

More barking. If we say that facts are propaganda then I am glad to propagandize! Don't lose your temper, I imagine that you are red as tomato right now.

I wonder who is loosing all the time his temper. I am famous to be calm anyway.
I don't loose my temper by saying you never care to be honest but always say a strong opinion and racist comments: inferiority of berbers, of shias, saying sunnis are nice and shias are bad, Iranians are bad and saudis are good ...

myself i never insulted someone for being from a nation or a religion.
the only group which i really hate to have seen their bombings is MeK.

Seriously your English is limited. There cannot be a serious discussion if you can't understand simple sentences.

you're not going to stop me to say what i think by insulting me.
I already said i never enjoyed the English language as i do for other languages like French and many others.

LOL. During the Afghan-Soviet war Muslims from ALL over the world went to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. Al-Qaeda is an American creation and Osama bin Laden has nothing to do with KSA as a state! Again you don't know what you are speaking about not that it is a surprise.

what a joke !
Ben Laden was working in your services !
And Al Qaeda has nothing to do with USA . USA helped the resistance in Afghanistan and trusted Pakistanis to help them. The talibans appeared after and not saying about Al Qaeda which is a group that is born with an anti USA ideology.

stop your crap pls

for your culture since you seem to know nothing as usual or you prefer to lie so much:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi

 

[al-Hasani]

USA is still very much involved in Iraq. It reflects badly on America when the world sees Iraq as a mess, because they get blamed.

I don't see any motive for Saudi to cause trouble in Iraq.

Now, there may be Saudi nationals involved in organising and funding bombs in Iraq - but that's different than attributing this to the Saudi government.

Some British used to complain that America was funding the IRA - but it had nothing to do with the American government. It was Irish-Americans in places like Boston who used to collect donations in pubs and send to the IRA.

The Iraq bombing campaign is mainly by extremist Sunnis from all over who don't want a Shia-majority democracy.

It's very sad to see a resource-rich region that could become a powerhouse in the world - tear itself apart.

Exactly. But tell that to members here who struggle to understand even the most simple English. Like a kindergarten.

You make no sense. Al-Qaeda was created by USA. It is well-known. The Americans admit it themselves, so you are fooling nobody. Osama bin Laden had no ties to the KSA government and he was STRIPPED of his Saudi passport 15 years ago and expelled LONG before any Al-Qaeda attacks. Why do you think that he lived in Afghanistan and Sudan in the first place? He was not allowed to enter KSA. Do you understand this? Probably not, since it's too complicated for you.

Also don't even mention Iran. They hosted Al-Qaeda members and even Osama Bin Ladens family members who escaped from Afghanistan into Iran after the American invasion with the blessing of Iran's Mullahs. I posted a video yesterday where your Mullah's admit it on camera. Unlike KSA. This is a fact as well. Al-Qaeda has targeted KSA many times but are yet to target Iran. Also a fact. Despite being the most sophisticated and powerful terrorist group.

Unlike you, I know more about Islam (can see that by your user history and comments) since I have actually studied it closely and virtually all schools of thought, groups and the history. The Deobanis, as even your link proves, are limited to South Asia and have nothing to do with Arabs or KSA. So basically that is just more nonsense.

Also learn to differentiate between Salafis, who traditionally don't even engage in politics (real Salafis) who have existed since Islam's birth and Jihadists. As I already told you then Jihad was performed during the Crusades and by the Rashidun Army and even the Prophet Muhammad (saws) himself. It has nothing to do with any state of today or organization. Nobody created it. Jihadists and Salafis are two different things.

You are wasting my time.