Featured Saudi Arabia and Pakistan: A partnership too important to fail

[shah_123]

House of Sauds existence is based on betrayal, they should be the last one (as written in the article) complaining about rift in Ummah.

Pakistan is free to join whatever block --- Turkiye fully supports Pakistan on Kashmir issue, so why shouldn't we go close to them ---- Did we ask why Saudi Arabia is working with Israel block?

 

[PakFactor]

At least White non-muslims have more guts than some sellout coward Muslims...

No wonder Muslims are being slaughtered like sheep around the world... We have spines made of cow dung... Instead of steel!

When Muslims go astray Allah puts someone else in their position to carry the banner of Islam -- Genghis Khan came, and his descendants became Muslims and spread Islam as well.

This religion wasn't create for just Arabs to be the torch bearer. Who knows after mass slaughtering of current Muslims the Europeans could take the position of accepting Islam and leading it? Anything is possible.

 

[The Eagle]

Before we go full outburst, there are few points to be considered given current situation and our diplomatic moves.

• The subject SMQ, has a lot of skeletons with him as compare to his services to the State. I said it long ago and I will repeat again that the man was caught in some suspicious practices and agendas of his own political gains. So, having said that if SMQ will be going or not; wouldn't be decided on this episode alone while he admittedly said that anti KSA remarks were made in his personal capacity. Whether he took State into confidence by calculating the risk factors and harmful outcome or by showing a rosy picture by downplaying the aftermath; he did so and any decision against or in his favour will reveal the truth.

• The point in regard to KSA having relationship with India, is unfair to say the least IMO. If we have to scale down our relations with KSA on the basis of investment in India then we should consider the comparison analysis of Iran inviting all the Indian investment into Chahbahar despite the fact that India has been hostile to Pakistan and even evidently used Afghanistan against us. In view of the same, the Kalbhushan chapter and Uzair linkages and so the threats by Gen. Sulemani; are all on the record and if we go by the same stance, I think we should have demanded the boycott against Iran as well.

• Speaking of above KSA-India or Iran-India relations; such demands holds no point in diplomatic world and especially when you have your own set of national interests. As we mention diplomatic relations, the same also proves that if KSA demands us to cut ties with Iran or Turkey, are also unjustified & unfair.

• Pakistan maintains relations with everyone and we never chose a side in any conflict especially between Islamic Countries. Having said that, we keep our relations with Turkey and so Iran, as well as KSA and with UAE and others as well. While we don't choose a side, none should expect us to take part in any conflict which may anger the other party against us.

• If KSA is angry because of our relations with Turkey or Iran; on the same time KSA argue that their investment in India can benefit us then it is the same point that Pakistan relations with Iran & Turkey can also benefit KSA and other countries where we can play a mediator role to cool down any possible conflict being fueled by external forces. All the parties have to understand the same thing.

• No doubt that KSA has been helpful to Pakistan and Pakistan been doing so all in our capacity as well.

• Is the recent SMQ outburst is merely a knee jerk reaction? No, in-fact things been cooking and brothers used many other ways to make understand few points. Such exchange against each others been happening but behind the closed doors while SMQ did so in open to which, I agree with KSA that it shouldn't happened like this.

• Also, COAS visit was already decided but sudden statement by SMQ, if found it to be what we fear, seems like an attempt to sabotage relations despite the fact that we keep it with all. If, I say again if it was a deliberate attempt by SMQ then his ousting shouldn't be a surprise at all. However, internet warriors can choose to say whatever they wants to vent out themselves by having anything for the meltdown but facts will remain as it is.

• Pakistan didn't participate in Malaysia and that is an open secrete that we did so out of respect for KSA but again, we could have been disappointed for the Kashmir. KSA is right to say that their investment is part of their needs of economy and they have right to do so.

• When you are talking about relations and national interests; make sure you aren't burning all the boats that you don't anything to return. In-fact nobody does so in real world.

• Furthermore, things might seems to be intensified but nobody is aware about the real time happening and what's being discussed. As I used to say, we can only make a guess by observing or reading into things per our own understanding or we speculate to the least. However, I can say that things aren't bad as to what propaganda media & certain disinfo warfare machines been doing so and tried to spread hate, disappointment as well as mistrust based upon a well designed agenda to create rift and divide between both countries. In the end, I observe that there are few corrupt elements within the diplomatic corridors of both the countries that somehow peddle a malafide agenda but they seems to be uncaught for a while. As the time passes; many will be caught red handed and served accordingly as they deserves.

I wouldn't go further as the current situation only dictates to share as much as I am supposed to do.

Regards,

 

[Goenitz]

@The Eagle very interesting points, especially 2,3,4 and 5.

To all. According to following program, SA never took back any payment for given oil on deferred payment. Be it 1998 or post 2000.

 

[Max]

There are many Saudi Irani sellouts like Ambassador and Mullah Asharfi, they can't fool Pakistanis.

SMQ clearly pointed out toward Saudi and UAE and said if they want to be leaders of Muslims, they should act like one. He also referred to Saudi stopping Pakistan from Mahathir's meet which was again very shameful act by Pakistani leadership, but he chose to blame Pakistani media for all this.

Ambassador wrote whole article counting tiny acts of OIC contact group yet failed to answer why didn't they arranged Summit of foreign ministers or even leaders? He only got one excuse in the end and that's Coronavirus. lol

Every assistance and deal between Pakistan and Saudi is for interests of Saudi royal Family. The only leverage they have is of Pakistani manpower they employ but it's also two way street, Pakistan import $20+ billion a year oil from Saudi and UAE. many big countries have deal that part of petroleum earning gulfies will reinvest in their countries but no such deal for slave Pakistan. Even the projects promised are on hold with zero progress.

Then he blabbered about Saudi being citadel of Islam and what not.. they are nothing but family fiefdom..

 

[Clutch]

When Muslims go astray Allah puts someone else in their position to carry the banner of Islam -- Genghis Khan came, and his descendants became Muslims and spread Islam as well.

This religion wasn't create for just Arabs to be the torch bearer. Who knows after mass slaughtering of current Muslims the Europeans could take the position of accepting Islam and leading it? Anything is possible.

True. Agreed.

However, in my opinion, which could be wrong, I believe we are at the End of History stage.

Events during these times are well defined. "Wo, onto the Arabs!" ... As they will from this point onwards be reduced in numbers into insignificance just like the Native North American...

 

[vi-va]

A critical piece by a 9 years diplomat in Paksitan
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1720441

Debate

Overall, he says that SA helped Pakistan a lot.
SA feel uneasy why Pak is tilting towards Iran and Turkey more as they are dividing ummah more.
Pak didn't help SA when she needed most, in Yemen war.
Shah Mahmood is dividing muslim brotherhood and SA/Pak relations.
SA and India relations can help Pakistan and SA needs to invest in countries to earn more to curb oil dependency.
Also we think past Turks as part of caliphate but Arabs see them as oppressors.
@Foxtrot Alpha @Rafi @PakFactor
I think SMQ should resign voluntarily.

It's less relevant to money, nor religion. It's more relevant to national security.

It's a fast changing world. As we see SA is siding with US and Israel, and US is pressuring SA to normalize relationship with Israel. Also US is grouping his allies to confront with Iran in ME, and flirting India to confront with both Pakistan and China.

From Pakistan point of view, Pakistan sacrificed relationship with Iran and this created best opportunities for India to contain Pakistan on the west side.

As we can see, Iran will either get a deal for economy with Biden, or go Nukes. Pakistan has to deal with Iran seriously because US is withdrawing from Afghanistan, and ME to a larger extent. Pakistan need Iran's cooperation to kick India out from Afghanistan and safe guard the west border.

It's not in Pakistan's national interest any more to side with SA on Iran issues. Pakistan Iran relationship is not a bargaining chip for couple of billions dollars deferred payment. Not any more, Maybe previous PM can do it, but IK won't.

SA should really reevaluate his diplomacy, especially the relationship with the whole region. As we know MBS capability, it's alarming. Currently SA diplomacy completely favor US and Israel. It won't be long that one day SA will not be treated as seriously as before. Turkey has the potential to challenge, Iran too. US is not reliable at all, US is withdrawing, that's why Israel is so hurry on the to-do list before Trump's end of term.

What's more, Pakistan is developing economy with China, and China can provide much more than a few billions deferred payment. China also hope Pakistan to mend relationship with Iran, so that all parties together can deal with Afghanistan issues after US withdraw. Pakistan can be the route of Iran oil and gas as well, it will benefit Pakistan hugely. At least get discounted oil or gas, as well as gas pipeline project funded by China.

What India can provide to Iran is oil market, that's all. If Iran sign the deal with China, market is not problem. If Pakistan join in the club, land pipeline is possible too. Many opportunities. China can provide much more than India can dream of. UNSC P5 veto power, infrastructure, weapons, manufacturing jobs and technologies. There is much less motivation for Iran to side with India, good for Pakistan.

Oil is buyer market now. SA should think long term future. Easy money era probably won't come back. EV is replacing gasoline cars faster and faster.

 

[TNT]

That's the issue Pakistan cannot continue with its own foreign policy. If it could there would be no problem. At the drop of a hat their king is ready to cancel all the remittances and send home the workers who've done nothing wrong. That kind of volatile behavior should be avoided like a plague as far as I'm concerned. Who was there to support this snake when Kashoggi was murdered? Yet when Pakistan wants to do something that benefits Pakistan more than GCC he threatens them.

Not true, we plainly rejected their request for military assistance in yemen, they felt embarrassed but they dis not take any action. Infact few years later they financed us again. No need to be blind to reality. Arab lersian and arab turk tensions are from centuries and we sont need to indulge in it as both turk and arabs respect us. We have been hekped immensely by arabs and we certainly should not be thankless. How easily we call afghanis as namak haram but blatantly do the same with saudi. This isball due to shia lobbies in Pakistan.
We should have balanced relations with all and never giveaway an ally easily.

 

[Microsoft]

Not true, we plainly rejected their request for military assistance in yemen, they felt embarrassed but they dis not take any action. Infact few years later they financed us again. No need to be blind to reality. We have been hekped immensely by arabs and we certainly should not be thankless. How easily we call afghanis as namak haram but blatantly do the same with saudi. We should have balanced relations with all and never giveaway an ally easily.

Your point about Pakistanis being like Afghans is a false equivalence. Pakistan has done a lot in return for all the assistance whereas Afghans have done what exactly?

Arab lersian and arab turk tensions are from centuries and we sont need to indulge in it as both turk and arabs respect us.

Pakistan improving relations with Turkey/Iran does not mean Pakistan is siding against the Arabs it is purely for Pakistan benefit, yet this is now allowed. I can't recall anytime in recent memory where Arabs have shown Pakistan respect. What kind of respect is it if they threaten to destroy thousands of Pakistani livelihoods if the PM attends one trilateral meeting with Malaysia, Turkey?

To Arabs, Pakistan's relationship (subservience) is a zero sum game ie. Pakistan cannot have good relations with Iran (or anyone else of their choosing) yet they award highest citizen award to slimebag Modi 2 weeks after he revokes Article 370? Where is the respect?

 

[Amaa'n]

A critical piece by a 9 years diplomat in Paksitan
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1720441

Debate

Overall, he says that SA helped Pakistan a lot.
SA feel uneasy why Pak is tilting towards Iran and Turkey more as they are dividing ummah more.
Pak didn't help SA when she needed most, in Yemen war.
Shah Mahmood is dividing muslim brotherhood and SA/Pak relations.
SA and India relations can help Pakistan and SA needs to invest in countries to earn more to curb oil dependency.
Also we think past Turks as part of caliphate but Arabs see them as oppressors.
@Foxtrot Alpha @Rafi @PakFactor
I think SMQ should resign voluntarily.

why, becausse he addressed the elephant in the room?
this is just good cop bad cop thing

 

[Goenitz]

why, becausse he addressed the elephant in the room?
this is just good cop bad cop thing

that is best if it is. As younger Arab leadership doesn't/may not consider our Kashmir issue importance. So telling them clearly is important.
Iran gas pipeline/Qatar CNG/NS return etc are not as important.. but Kashmir is.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

LoL if SA and UAE can be friends with Israel and india, why cant we be friends with Iran and Turkey, we will do what is in our interests and they can do the same.

Spot on. KSA has no right to blackmail us on 'the Ummah' when it invests in India. It's a shame our foreign policy is not as sharp as it needs to be. Truth is, KSA has us by the scrotum on money, but there's a way out if we can boost our exports (and in turn get more hard currency, and diversify our energy imports). Lower cost energy from Iran (especially if the United Nations walks the US sanctions back) might help too.

 

[TNT]

Your point about Pakistanis being like Afghans is a false equivalence. Pakistan has done a lot in return for all the assistance whereas Afghans have done what exactly?

Pakistan improving relations with Turkey/Iran does not mean Pakistan is siding against the Arabs it is purely for Pakistan benefit, yet this is now allowed. I can't recall anytime in recent memory where Arabs have shown Pakistan respect. What kind of respect is it if they threaten to destroy thousands of Pakistani livelihoods if the PM attends one trilateral meeting with Malaysia, Turkey?

To Arabs, Pakistan's relationship (subservience) is a zero sum game ie. Pakistan cannot have good relations with Iran (or anyone else of their choosing) yet they award highest citizen award to slimebag Modi 2 weeks after he revokes Article 370? Where is the respect?

Any military assistance in oast have been paid, very handsomely. Infact we were happy for those assistance as it gave us benefits. We have been financed by arabs, even our nuclear program and u go on posting dumb propaganda memes that are intended for below avg iq blind followers. Relations between states are never a zero sum game, whoever says otherwise knows nothing about international relations.
U talk as if ur so sensitive to india while Pakistan itself had business relations with india. Have saudi ever damage Pakistan existence like iran have? Propaganda infected or sectarian mindsets cant think beyond a certain limit. Iran have way too much cooperated with india than even a 100 medals. Let them have relations with india, all the world has. Pakistan have invested decades in the relationship with arabs and destroying that relation because of paropaganda cheerleaders are iran fanboys would mean shooting urself in the foot. Pakistan can only emerge as a true muslim leader one day if it has good relations with all the muslim countries. Taking sides or expressing such craps openly as SMQ did, will damage relations.

 

[flameboard]

A critical piece by a 9 years diplomat in Paksitan
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1720441

Debate

Overall, he says that SA helped Pakistan a lot.
SA feel uneasy why Pak is tilting towards Iran and Turkey more as they are dividing ummah more.
Pak didn't help SA when she needed most, in Yemen war.
Shah Mahmood is dividing muslim brotherhood and SA/Pak relations.
SA and India relations can help Pakistan and SA needs to invest in countries to earn more to curb oil dependency.
Also we think past Turks as part of caliphate but Arabs see them as oppressors.
@Foxtrot Alpha @Rafi @PakFactor
I think SMQ should resign voluntarily.

Forget the Saudi Arabia of your grandparents. This is a new Saudi.

instead of reaffirming their support for Kashmir they take an additional jab at Pakistan.

 

[Microsoft]

Any military assistance in oast have been paid, very handsomely. Infact we were happy for those assistance as it gave us benefits. We have been financed by arabs, even our nuclear program and u go on posting dumb propaganda memes that are intended for below avg iq blind followers. Relations between states are never a zero sum game, whoever says otherwise knows nothing about international relations.
U talk as if ur so sensitive to india while Pakistan itself had business relations with india. Have saudi ever damage Pakistan existence like iran have? Propaganda infected or sectarian mindsets cant think beyond a certain limit. Iran have way too much cooperated with india than even a 100 medals. Let them have relations with india, all the world has. Pakistan have invested decades in the relationship with arabs and destroying that relation because of paropaganda cheerleaders are iran fanboys would mean shooting urself in the foot. Pakistan can only emerge as a true muslim leader one day if it has good relations with all the muslim countries. Taking sides or expressing such craps openly as SMQ did, will damage relations.

You have not answered any of my questions. Pakistan is not getting those benefits for free they do the job they get the benefits. Yet Pakistan's situation has only gotten worse and worse because the GCC countries actively dissuade Pakistan from seeking out its own interests. I say forget Iran too Pakistan needs to work on self reliance. But you will not see anyone threatening to send back an entire country's workforce from their country just because they are seeking out their own benefit. You are just making excuses for Arabs.