Saudi arabia and attitudes towards non-arab muslims.

[praveen]

as the most important muslim nation and epicentre of islam should s.arabia not be more vocal about the well being of muslims all around the world?

do they not have a special responsibility to be a voice for all muslims?

to a large extent i think so.

but i see different.


someone correct me if i am wrong, but did the saudi's really do anything about babri masjid?

did they openly condemn india? did they kick their indian embassador out of saudi?

what did they do?

same with gujrat.


my feeling is that they are indifferent or would rather not annoy the nation that has allowed the offence to happen (for econoimic, politcal or other reasons), both are completely unacceptable imo.

if something of the enormity of the babri masjid incident does not compel other muslims and in particular the saudi's to speak out and act, then muslims of the sub-continent seriously need to re-examine our attitude towards the saudi's and the exact nature of their relationship


so i start this thread to ask some probing and uncomfortable questions about saudi attitudes.

please share your views.



any indian trolling about indian muslims this and that or other unrelated discussion will be regarded as off topic by me, mods please consider this

Your are speaking about Indian muslims and India and you consider posts by Indians about India is off-topic,

Pretty rich I mustsay

 

[R.A.W.]

Even on my visit to middle east they mistook me for a Muslim because of misspelled name. And for the next two days these guys were trying to show me that they know Islam and as if I am some one who needs to learn from them. Or as if I am third grade citizen. Initially i was not able to understand but later I realized what went wrong when one of my Muslim friend told me.


But Guys once I realized... what followed with me and my 2 Muslim friends..........I can just say I think those 3 of them will always remember Indian subcontinent muslims.

Man these guys talk of Islam and hardly know anything.

These Arabs hardly do any work and hardly know anything. This oil has made them good for nothing. It is the people of the subcontinent who work hard there. If some one from the sub continent challenges them about anything I dont think they will be able to compete in any field. Without oil they are in stone age.

 

[Omar1984]

so do you suggest that we ignore the actions and thoughts of the arabs in the present and continue to pledge allegiance to one that does not exist whilst the saudi's plot otherwise?


i do not believe the suadi's have the genuinie best interests of world muslims at heart.

the strategy of these guys is to keep us pakistani's and their own arabs in a blinding wahabi haze, i think these guys are terrified of any criticism and too many pakistani's believe in an islamic brotherly myth


what are these guys true to?

and what does it mean for us?

lets be open here..

The common Saudi person is not mean towards non-arab Muslims.

My parents went to Umrah a few months ago and they said people in Madina were very nice. Some Saudis even were communicating in Urdu with my parents.

The government of Saudi Arabia does sometimes interferes in Pakistan's internal affairs but that government is very pro-western, is a friend of Israel and US...that government doesn't represent the common Saudi person.

 

[SeaGull]

Alright – I have a Big Question for all of you:

Why is it that any one of regardless of his color, creed faith or affiliation can upon fulfillment of certain criteria like, duration of stay, marriage, investment etc, qualify for citizenship in the West, protected by its laws with equal status at par with any of its other citizens.
But no Muslims from our part of the world can ever qualify for a Saudi and a couple of other Arab countries citizenship, even if we have lived our entire lives in those countries.
And forget about marriage to any Saudi women – you know what the sword can do to your neck.
The West being much more advanced than these Arab countries.
Israel grants automatic citizenship to any Jew, living in any part of the world.

What kind of Muslims are we? And what kind of brotherhood do we speak of?
I am totally confused here. Any help in understanding this will be much appreciated.

 

[EjazR]

Alright – I have a Big Question for all of you:

Why is it that any one of regardless of his color, creed faith or affiliation can upon fulfillment of certain criteria like, duration of stay, marriage, investment etc, qualify for citizenship in the West, protected by its laws with equal status at par with any of its other citizens.
But no Muslims from our part of the world can ever qualify for a Saudi and a couple of other Arab countries citizenship, even if we have lived our entire lives in those countries.
And forget about marriage to any Saudi women – you know what the sword can do to your neck.
The West being much more advanced than these Arab countries.
Israel grants automatic citizenship to any Jew, living in any part of the world.

What kind of Muslims are we? And what kind of brotherhood do we speak of?
I am totally confused here. Any help in understanding this will be much appreciated.

You are mixing politics with religion. Lets not forget that Saudi Arabia as we know today did not exist 100 years ago. Before that muslims from all over the world came to mecca and medina and could settle down there. The local meccans are a mix of ethnicities from all over the world.

So Saudi Arabia, which was formed by breaking the Turkish empire and with the help of the British (Something similar to what they did in India) is not representative of the Islam in practice as it was 150-200 years ago.


And for your second part, you are misinformed. Bahrain and UAE have some some arrangements for citizenship. In KSA, you have to be a resident for 10 years and be MS or PhD along with some other details for citizenship. Although the process is painstakingly slow.
So there are ethnic Indians, Pakistanis, Burmese, Sudanese, Turks and Maylays who are Saudi citizens although they are in the minority.

You can also marry a Saudi women, but your children may not be eligible for saudi citizenship -- again nothing Islamic about it--just a political convenience. Also, the Saudis' are really good at any PR, so despite KSA being one of the largest donors of aid to poor countries, no one knows this side of KSA.

The problem is for non-muslims, anything that the saudis do is taken as something to do with Islam, even though there is no basis in Quran and HAdith for it. Hope that clears things up.

 

[SeaGull]

EjazR > It still clears up nothing for me - you have me more confused.

 

[SeaGull]

Why should it take an MS or Phd holder to qualify for citizenship?
Any Phd or MS worth his salt would consider it demeaning to be seen applying for Saudi nationality, even if he were from Timbuktu.
And what has Islam to do with a person's Education.
Islam is said to be a, Way of Life' that encompasses politics as well.
Why should be politics and religion be separate in a country that proclaims itself as guardian to the FAITH?

 

[EjazR]

Why should it take an MS or Phd holder to qualify for citizenship?
Any Phd or MS worth his salt would consider it demeaning to be seen applying for Saudi nationality, even if he were from Timbuktu.
And what has Islam to do with a person's Education.
Islam is said to be a, Way of Life' that encompasses politics as well.
Why should be politics and religion be separate in a country that proclaims itself as guardian to the FAITH?

Like I said, the citizenship procedures are NOT based on Islam but on geo-politics. Any western countries also uses a point-based system to qualify for immigration. KSA being a rich country and having turned around in a big way to modern education finally (recent budget was education and manpower development was around 25% of GDP 2009) need MS and PhDs to help out. Its geo-political interests and these immigrants get good perks.

You mentioned some sweeping statements that non-arab muslims can get the "sword" for marrying a saudi women which was incorrect, and that non-arab muslims have never got saudi citizenship which is again incorrect. Ofcourse, its not widespread, but seeing that the past 100-150 years has been dominated by a Royal family who are interested in holding on to power is an important factor.

Besides, there is no reason why any convert to Islam should go to KSA. If an American or European or Japanese converts to Islam, that doesn't mean he will go and settle down in KSAand leave his family and friends. That is why there are so many varied ethnicities in Islam and infact there are more non-arab muslims than arabic speaking muslims. Hence another reason for the low number of immigration to KSA.

 

[Musalman]

Why should you depend on Saudi, develop yourselves, build up your economy , emphasize on education, automatically they will all turn their attention to you

where did i say depend on them??????

 

[SeaGull]

EjazR > The facts I stated are reality driven - while what you mention is academic.

There's no denying the fact that they look down on us and not equals as brothers in faith.

Thank you for being the official Saudi spokesman.

 

[EjazR]

EjazR > The facts I stated are reality driven - while what you mention is academic.

There's no denying the fact that they look down on us and not equals as brothers in faith.

Thank you for being the official Saudi spokesman.

Care to tell me where I have mentioned "academic" statements whatever that means.

Saudi 2009 budget is here
Saudi Arabia Releases 2009 Budget - U.S.-Saudi Arabian Business Council

There is no doubt there are big issues with Saudi govt. and society. If you have read my previous posts, I have highlighted what's wrong with them.

But if you make incorrect statements on citizenships or marrying saudi women, and I correct that, I am now a spokesman?

There are problems and human rights violations in Saudi. There is a problem with attitude among Saudis, though definitely not all. But blanket assertions like your's are far from reality

The world is not black and white my friend, but shades of grey

 

[SeaGull]

Agreed - there's more Grey than there's Black and white now.

 

[zavis2003]

Alright – I have a Big Question for all of you:

Why is it that any one of regardless of his color, creed faith or affiliation can upon fulfillment of certain criteria like, duration of stay, marriage, investment etc, qualify for citizenship in the West, protected by its laws with equal status at par with any of its other citizens.
But no Muslims from our part of the world can ever qualify for a Saudi and a couple of other Arab countries citizenship, even if we have lived our entire lives in those countries.
And forget about marriage to any Saudi women – you know what the sword can do to your neck.
The West being much more advanced than these Arab countries.
Israel grants automatic citizenship to any Jew, living in any part of the world.

What kind of Muslims are we? And what kind of brotherhood do we speak of?
I am totally confused here. Any help in understanding this will be much appreciated.

what i am going to say it would be hard for u to digest but it would represent the colors of reality

ur question what kind of muslims we are?

we are of same kind what saudies are ok means not true muslims

saudis are not giving there women to us (according to u) tell me would u give your sister to a SLUM or to a neggro of ETHUPIA with 3 pennies in pocket
ans would be no no no neither from u nor from me


coz we are the marerilistic ppl

u are cring of saudies women
my sweet heart it is hard for u get an AFRIDI gal if u r not afridi chudri gal baloch gal no way

we are all sectarians and biased ppl
first look at u then loo at other ppl
sorry i gave u xamples fro pak sect and u r bangali

and dis bangali bangali cancer has drownd our country that too was a biasing i admit pakistanis were really a fuker asholes who contributed to creation of BANGLAdesh

 

[haawk]

saudi- is a nation by itself and will only cater to its own interests........

pakistan is the only nation that is obsessed with being muslims and helping all those who are muslims.....

it still baffels me-why do you even care ?
in an other thread abt an indian girl disproving einstein or something...one of the members asked why was the fact that she being muslim was not mentioned in the article.......(i could not ans that coz i was banned at that time)....the answer
is ...no one in the world especially india do not care abt the religeon of people who accomplish things even if a hindu had done that no one would go and say that a hindu did that,,,,,its only people of pakistan who are obscessed with religeon-this i still dont understand? anyone here care to enlighten me over here

 

[SeaGull]

what i am going to say it would be hard for u to digest but it would represent the colors of reality

ur question what kind of muslims we are?

we are of same kind what saudies are ok means not true muslims

saudis are not giving there women to us (according to u) tell me would u give your sister to a SLUM or to a neggro of ETHUPIA with 3 pennies in pocket
ans would be no no no neither from u nor from me


coz we are the marerilistic ppl

u are cring of saudies women
my sweet heart it is hard for u get an AFRIDI gal if u r not afridi chudri gal baloch gal no way

we are all sectarians and biased ppl
first look at u then loo at other ppl
sorry i gave u xamples fro pak sect and u r bangali

and dis bangali bangali cancer has drownd our country that too was a biasing i admit pakistanis were really a fuker asholes who contributed to creation of BANGLAdesh

You do speak the truth Buddy. Thank you

And no I am not in need of a Saudi or a Pathan or a Balochi woman.