Sarkozy to Seek China Aid as EU Expands Rescue Fund

[Chinese-Dragon]

And you expect anybody to believe your claims..

Developereo makes a LOT more sense than you do.

It's not even a comparison.

 

[muse]

For all interested readers to review:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/13960-millstone-around-china.html

 

[Guest01]

So it's a three way power equation, at least -- it's China, US and EU -- What benefits does China derive from the EU? Is an EU that is home to NATO deserve being "saved"? if yes, why isn't the US saving it? What's in it for China? Why would the EU want Chinese help??

Hi Sir,

it is quite simple. China needs to save EU because if they go in to a recession then China will follow immediately because EU is a big market for China's export oriented economy. With the slowdown in US, a similar situation in Europe will practically lead a death blow to China's high positive balance of trade and the economy will slow down. that coupled with the real estate bubble waiting to burst, the results could be catastrophic. And once that happens, the real inflation will show up and the social upheavel will be very dangerous for the Chinese economy and stability and more importantly for the Chinese communist party. so really trust me on this, CHINA WILL FUND THE EURO BAILOUT. they have no other way. The economic policies of China over these years ensured that they will have to bail out their markets or China sinks with them. Funny but true.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Hi Sir,

it is quite simple. China needs to save EU because if they go in to a recession then China will follow immediately because EU is a big market for China's export oriented economy. With the slowdown in US, a similar situation in Europe will practically lead a death blow to China's high positive balance of trade and the economy will slow down. that coupled with the real estate bubble waiting to burst, the results could be catastrophic. And once that happens, the real inflation will show up and the social upheavel will be very dangerous for the Chinese economy and stability and more importantly for the Chinese communist party. so really trust me on this, CHINA WILL FUND THE EURO BAILOUT. they have no other way. The economic policies of China over these years ensured that they will have to bail out their markets or China sinks with them. Funny but true.

It's true that the Chinese government is afraid of the EU collapsing.

However, it does not mean we will go into recession. Worldwide exports collapsed by a greater amount during the 2008 Credit crunch... and we still managed to grow by almost double-digits.

It did lead to millions of factory workers becoming unemployed though, something which many predicted would lead to the downfall of the CPC. It didn't, due to the fact that the unemployed migrant workers went back to their family farms, and did not congregate in the urban centers to cause political unrest.

 

[Developereo]

Which of the links say that France 'escaped' downgrade as you claimed?

Let's spell it out S.L.O.W.L.Y

A- Moody's (and others) threatened France with a downgrade (links in my previous post).
B- The downgrade was averted (for now) when Merkel and Sarkozy came up with their plan.
C- The jury is still out whether this plan will work -- it depends on a HUGE infusion of cash which the Europeans don't have.

If you don't call that 'escaping a downgrade', I don't know what to tell you. We can call it 'blitzabobbing a downgrade' if it makes you feel better.

No sources, No logic; only your own concocted crap. And you expect anybody to believe your claims..

From your own link Later on....



And you were claiming Europes IP rights are up for sale when even its mention has such opposition.

French don't even want to appear weak to the Chinese, and you suggest wholeslae technology buys....ridiculous.

Who's talking about 'wholesale technology buys'?

I knew I should have highlighted the parts in the first post. Sigh.

China 'buying up Europe' claims study - Public Service Europe

Godement and Parello-Plesner said: "Five years ago the story was European companies establishing bases in China. Now the story is that China is strategically acquiring European companies – giving it ownership of vital infrastructure, access to cutting-edge technologies and allowing it to play some European countries off against others."

 

[muse]

Friends

You all seem to be missing the "global" in this crisis -- China is not out of danger herself - she must chart a very vary cautious course indeed - ultimately, if out of this mess, all we get is a return to normalcy, that is to say trade denominated in Dollar and Euro, China rise will have been meaningless.

I invited you to review the "Millstone around China" thread - please review it, please better acquaint yourself with the kinds of challenges the Chinese economy faces in building a domestic market and why and ask yourself which one of these Eu or US will bail out China and can either of these help create an internal market for the Chinese and why not.

 

[Guest01]

It's true that the Chinese government is afraid of the EU collapsing.

However, it does not mean we will go into recession. Worldwide exports collapsed by a greater amount during the 2008 Credit crunch... and we still managed to grow by almost double-digits.

It did lead to millions of factory workers becoming unemployed though, something which many predicted would lead to the downfall of the CPC. It didn't, due to the fact that the unemployed migrant workers went back to their family farms, and did not congregate in the urban centers to cause political unrest.

You will change your mind about it if you will just look the the huge increase in the chinese banks lending during the period of 2008 up to middle of 2010. The huge loans actually went in to real estate more than the bailouts of the smaller businesses in China. So to say that there was no impact will be very naieve because even when the figures are window dressed, every financial analyst in Hong Kong knows that Chinese banks are actually sitting on a crap load of NPA's from the lovely lending gala time. On top of it the hot money flow in to real estate made it a practicaly time bomb ticking away. With the Eurozone crisis if Europe defaults on the soveriegn debts, which will actually happen if the bail out will not be extended, then there is not anymore appetite for the retail investors to fund banks who are actually funding the hot money via lendings in China. So my friend, let us do away with the nice political language and smell the coffee. And also rest assured, CHINA WILL FUND THE EU BAILOUT. They have no other choice!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You will change your mind about it if you will just look the the huge increase in the chinese banks lending during the period of 2008 up to middle of 2010. The huge loans actually went in to real estate more than the bailouts of the smaller businesses in China. So to say that there was no impact will be very naieve because even when the figures are window dressed, every financial analyst in Hong Kong knows that Chinese banks are actually sitting on a crap load of NPA's from the lovely lending gala time. On top of it the hot money flow in to real estate made it a practicaly time bomb ticking away. With the Eurozone crisis if Europe defaults on the soveriegn debts, which will actually happen if the bail out will not be extended, then there is not anymore appetite for the retail investors to fund banks who are actually funding the hot money via lendings in China. So my friend, let us do away with the nice political language and smell the coffee. And also rest assured, CHINA WILL FUND THE EU BAILOUT. They have no other choice!

Umm... I never said the Credit crunch had no effect on China, in fact I quite clearly stated that millions of migrant factory workers lost their jobs. If that doesn't count as an "effect" then I have no idea what would.

Yes China will most likely contribute to the EU bailout, if only to save our own export markets over there.

The rest of your post is the same "China will collapse" prediction that we have been hearing every year, since the 1989 Tiananmen incident. And more recently with the: credit crunch, property bubbles!, food inflation, military takeover, Jasmine revolution!, ghost cities... it's all the same formula.

If you have something new apart from NPA's as a legacy of the excess lending during the credit crunch, please bring it forward. We faced the exact same problem not too long ago with the state owned banks (which was fixed), and it is nice to have $3 trillion in currency reserves.

 

[Guest01]

Umm... I never said the Credit crunch had no effect on China, in fact I quite clearly stated that millions of migrant factory workers lost their jobs. If that doesn't count as an "effect" then I have no idea what would.

Yes China will most likely contribute to the EU bailout, if only to save our own export markets over there.

The rest of your post is the same "China will collapse" prediction that we have been hearing every year, since the 1989 Tiananmen incident. And more recently with the: credit crunch, property bubbles!, food inflation, military takeover, Jasmine revolution!, ghost cities... it's all the same formula.

If you have something new apart from NPA's as a legacy of the excess lending during the credit crunch, please bring it forward. We faced the exact same problem not too long ago with the state owned banks (which was fixed), and it is nice to have $3 trillion in currency reserves.

No where did I say that China will fail my friend. Not at least till there is also a social upheavel. Economic situation might contribute to it but that alone will not make the impact needed. You need to be more optimistic I guess

Re the credit crunch, may be I need to reiterate that the difference is in the appetite of the retail investors who actually have been buying the debt of the banks via picking up the offers on the bourses. This is increasingly diminishing even when state corporations are ready to underwrite the offer. And this is what I am referring to when I say that the situation is very sensitive because the window dressing is not working anymore. It is not just for any reason that divuling internal economic informaiton in China is a party crime you see

So just avoiding the other bones that you have thrown to divert the focus of the discussion, the plain fact is that the risk to Europe is much lesser than the risk to China. Actually for Europe it is a short term political and economic risk but to the Communist party, it is a long term existential risk to ensure that the factories keep on churning out goods else the snowball effect of one slowdown in one sector will see a very different sentiment in the industry and the markets. You could assume anythiing out of my comments as you may like

I just want to add that the 3 trillion dollar reserves are now more like stones around the neck rather than glimmering medals. A lot of that is invested in just trying to keep the USD afloat, + now it will be also funding the Euro. The businesses are actually now dependent on the subsidies that make the exports more competitive (just see the south China morning post edition any day and you will know what I am talking about). The installed capacities utilization make a huge impact on the viability of the operation running even when with subsidies so the dimininshing demand is a huge challenge. On top of everything the pressure to remove the RMB insulation over the last months is anyway having a cascading effect on the real inflation in the country. Do you really think that the reserves are a boon? So the important thing is not what you have achieved, rather how you have achieved it. For a quick comparison, just look at the Yen currently even when there has been the biggest jolt to the Japanese via the Tsunami earlier this year and compare their economic stability with that of China. So even when China has the reserves, they are just sitting on the liabilities side of the equation. Do you feel cheated with that

 

[Speeder 2]

China should be aware that :

1/ majority folks of Germanic northern EU DO NOT WANT "the EU", except the German-Franco political elites who act on behave of international Jews.

2/ Med-centred Latin EU is an economic time-bomb, which no bailout could solve eventually.

3/ China is NOT bailing out the EU, but bailing out out Jewish Banking Cartel that controls the EU !

In other words, China is dealing with the master of the EU -- the Jews and their puppets (EU polititians) -- at this level, almost the same banking catel of the US which China has bailed out.

4/ If China puts any money on the table, DO NOT expect to get a penny back in the future. It is impossible.
( Remember 2008 ? Jews like Sarkozy are a kind of ppl who will stick 2 fingers up your @#$% once they get the money)

5/ Bearing above in mind, ideally China should NOT bail out the EU ; however if it really must do, think HARD on what CONCRET economical benefits in exchange - nener underestimate Anglo-Rothchild Jewish banking alliance for once you do they'll bankcrupt you just like they did to both the US and the EU.


.

 

[PERSIAN GOD KING]

Whenever this sarcozy talks why does his body seem to move in an starnge way?

 

[Developereo]

For all interested readers to review:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/13960-millstone-around-china.html

China's exports account for around 25% of GDP (from a high of almost 40% in 2006). They are moving in the right direction.

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

 

[Developereo]

I just want to add that the 3 trillion dollar reserves are now more like stones around the neck rather than glimmering medals. A lot of that is invested in just trying to keep the USD afloat, + now it will be also funding the Euro.

Yes, that is perhaps the best use of the reserves: to keep China's customers afloat so they can continue buying Chinese products.

This keeps China's workers employed and builds Chinese infrastructure. Meanwhile, China can increase domestic demand slowly but surely to wean itself away from export dependency. When that day arrives, the artificial prop can be removed from under the US (and possibly Europe).

 

[lem34]

interesting noises in 2009:

Dollar's demise plotted by oil producers, China and France, report says - Telegraph

I think that preparations are already being made by powers to be to get shot of US dollar. However its not in the interest of china or oil producers to do it overnight. It will be done gently over the next 5 to 10 years. If you google the demise of the US dollar you will see that since this article was first put up countries like china are making small incremental changes every day towards the big day.

More Bad News for the US Dollar's Reserve Currency Status

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article31236.html

IMMINENT THREAT: Foreign Borrowings Will Lead To The Destruction Of The US Financial System

I know that some articles suggest a time line of maybe 25 years but I dont agree. In the stock market shares are valued not on what people think the shares are worth today but at times 6 months to two years in advance. I think the 25 years time schedule does not take the market taking into discount or premium for future events so I stick to my 5 to 10 years. And when it happens.... will america accept the new world war or will the armaggeddon be a reality with nukes going all over the place.

 

[lem34]

Yes, that is perhaps the best use of the reserves: to keep China's customers afloat so they can continue buying Chinese products.

This keeps China's workers employed and builds Chinese infrastructure. Meanwhile, China can increase domestic demand slowly but surely to wean itself away from export dependency. When that day arrives, the artificial prop can be removed from under the US (and possibly Europe).

The prop will be removed from US but not Europe. Because US wants to dominate the world with raw power with its army etc Alternativly america will have to temper and or alter its policies to places like taiwan lol