SAM system based on Nasr missile

[Indus Falcon]

It's impossible to convert it into a SAM. SAM's need to be aerodynamically maneuverable to chase jet fighters and they need to be very fast. The only thing in NASR system that can be put to use is it's tube launch vehicle which has nothing to do with NASR missile except launch it. The missile itself is pretty much useless.

Well the thing about NASR is that the range you read about 60km ~ 70km is NOT true. Look at this way, I'll give you two scenarios:

1) Would you stand 1km from the border and fire a nuke 70kms away? Is this how your artillery operates? No. You are opening yourself up to enemy mortar fire, forget enemy artillery! A safe distance is maintained.

2) Maintaining a distance of 30km ~ 40 km from the IB, would you fire a nuke 40km ~ 30 km inside enemy territory, again the radioactive fallout is too close to your border.

Without disclosing what I know, what does common sense tell you?

Secondly, it's trajectory is neither parabolic, nor ballistic, it's...........

 

[SipahSalar]

Well the thing about NASR is that the range you read about 60km ~ 70km is NOT true. Look at this way, I'll give you two scenarios:

1) Would you stand 1km from the border and fire a nuke 70kms away? Is this how your artillery operates? No. You are opening yourself up to enemy mortar fire, forget enemy artillery! A safe distance is maintained.

2) Maintaining a distance of 30km ~ 40 km from the IB, would you fire a nuke 40km ~ 30 km inside enemy territory, again the radioactive fallout is too close to your border.

Without disclosing what I know, what does common sense tell you?

Secondly, it's trajectory is neither parabolic, nor ballistic, it's...........

I am only commenting on it's feasibility as a SAM. As a tactical missile, i think it's a brilliant invention. As for its trajectory, as far as i know, it's always been ballistic. Did you come across anything to suggest otherwise?

 

[Donatello]

I am only commenting on it's feasibility as a SAM. As a tactical missile, i think it's a brilliant invention. As for its trajectory, as far as i know, it's always been ballistic. Did you come across anything to suggest otherwise?

It's an ordinary invention. SAMs have to be designed from the ground up for specific reasons. Just because it has a rocket motor and can be vectored, does not mean it will act as a Surface to air missile.

Building a SAM would require compatible Radar system and that is the crux of the problem. Secondly, if the range is only going to be 20-30 km, then you already have tested and integrated systems in place, so why reinvent the wheel?

 

[Indus Falcon]

As a last resort such idea can be tested, for instance, Iran converted her Hawk SAMs to Sedjil AAMs, though it was relatively easier conversion than changing Nasr to a SAM. Point is, why would we do that when alternatives are available?

Sir, converted wouldn't be the right word, cloned, copied, improved upon, might be better suited.

Secondly, it's the Shahin Missile that is a clone of the Hawk. The Sejil system is an IRBM with a supposed range of 2,000kms.
Sejil 1/2/3 - Missile ThreatAshoura, Ashura, Sajil, Sajjil | Missile Threat

Sejil 1


The Mersad system equipped with Shahin missiles is capable of tracing and targeting any aircraft at a 70 to 150km range and is considered a medium-range system, as reported by Iranian FARS news agency.
Iran deploys new air defense system with supersonic missile — RT News

When Iran's Defense Ministry announced Mersad's development in April (2010), it said the system will be used to launch Shahin missiles, a local version of the 1970s-era US-manufactured Hawk missile. The Hawk has a range of 24 kilometres with a 119-pound warhead and was sold to Iran before the 1979 Islamic revolution.
Iran claims successful missile defence shield test | The National

Shahin Missiles of the Mersad SAM System

HAWK missiles of the JGSDF

Hawk links:
Raytheon MIM-23 Hawk

Hawk MIM-23 low medium altitude ground to air missile technical data sheet specifications pictures | United States American missile system vehicle UK | United States US Army Military equipment UK

 

[Armstrong]

@Icarus @Oscar @Technogaianist - I've heard many argue, on this forum, that the Al-Khalid and the Jf-17 is a plug and play type of platform in the sense that its designed for adaptability/upgradability !

Now my question is are there some kinds of missiles that are kinda like the same in that you can have a motor or an engine that can be used - perhaps with some modifications - to power 2-3 different kinds of missiles ? Or a guidance system that can be plugged into 2-3 different kinds of missiles.

Heck as a finance guy I can't even begin to explain myself so perhaps an analogy would make more sense; can we have a missile much the same way there are screwdrivers with one body and many different heads !

I know its crappy example but hey....I know my Mergers and Acquisitions not my Missiles !

 

[syedali73]

Sir, converted wouldn't be the right word, cloned, copied, improved upon, might be better suited.

Secondly, it's the Shahin Missile that is a clone of the Hawk. The Sejil system is an IRBM with a supposed range of 2,000kms.

Bhai, you are more knowledgeable than me. I may have made a mistake. My reference to the name 'Sejil' for air-borne Hawk was the following photo which is most probably mislabeled.

 

[RazorMC]

The amount of work involved would be too great compared to the end result.

The time-cost of such a program would outweigh any benefits it would offer us.

As @syedali73 said, why not go for a SAM platform and then improve it?

 

[The Last of us]

Sir, converted wouldn't be the right word, cloned, copied, improved upon, might be better suited.

Secondly, it's the Shahin Missile that is a clone of the Hawk. The Sejil system is an IRBM with a supposed range of 2,000kms.
Sejil 1/2/3 - Missile ThreatAshoura, Ashura, Sajil, Sajjil | Missile Threat
View attachment 253168
Sejil 1


The Mersad system equipped with Shahin missiles is capable of tracing and targeting any aircraft at a 70 to 150km range and is considered a medium-range system, as reported by Iranian FARS news agency.
Iran deploys new air defense system with supersonic missile — RT News

When Iran's Defense Ministry announced Mersad's development in April (2010), it said the system will be used to launch Shahin missiles, a local version of the 1970s-era US-manufactured Hawk missile. The Hawk has a range of 24 kilometres with a 119-pound warhead and was sold to Iran before the 1979 Islamic revolution.
Iran claims successful missile defence shield test | The National
View attachment 253169 View attachment 253170
Shahin Missiles of the Mersad SAM System


View attachment 253171
HAWK missiles of the JGSDF

View attachment 253172

Hawk links:
Raytheon MIM-23 Hawk

Hawk MIM-23 low medium altitude ground to air missile technical data sheet specifications pictures | United States American missile system vehicle UK | United States US Army Military equipment UK

@syedali73 is right. Iranian Hawk missile was converted long time ago to an air to air missile called sejill. Don't confuse it with the sejill ballistic missile. They are different but with same name.

As for Iranian Hawk variety. The only thing similar to the US hawk now is the just body of the missile. The seeker has been completely modernised, new solid fuel has been used etc:
Iranian shalamche missile (missile of mersad system) seeker:

Us hawk seeker:

If you want to know more about Iranian airdefence, go in the Iranian airdefence thread. This mersad medium ranged missile is old news for Iran now. Iran is developing and has developed a variety of long range missile systems like Talash airdefence, Bavar (Iranian s-300 counterpart) etc.

I was thinking if it would be possible to develop Nasr into a SAM.

Will it need a new motor because it has to be more manueverable?

It is theoretically possible, but it will end up essentially becoming a completely new/different missile. It is better just to start designing a SAM system from scratch. But that depends how urgently Pakistan needs a SAM and that it wants an indigenous one. If it being indigenous is not an issue, then just purchase a few good system like HQ-9 from China.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

It would be a new platform all together.

It would be a new platform all together.

with Nasr being its base?

 

[Penguin]

Hatf IX Nasr is a ballistic missile. You could reemploy some components like launchers, but you'ld need an entirely new missile,

 

[Indus Falcon]

Bhai, you are more knowledgeable than me. I may have made a mistake. My reference to the name 'Sejil' for air-borne Hawk was the following photo which is most probably mislabeled.


View attachment 253211

@The Last of us Bro, The air to air missile is Fakour-90, which is based on the American Phoenix AIM-54

Various Types of Hi-Tech Missile Systems Go on Display in Iran's Military Parades - Missile ThreatMissile Threat

 

[Icarus]

with Nasr being its base?

No, that's the whole deal. There'd be no base. It'd be an entirely new project.

@Icarus @Oscar @Technogaianist - I've heard many argue, on this forum, that the Al-Khalid and the Jf-17 is a plug and play type of platform in the sense that its designed for adaptability/upgradability !

Now my question is are there some kinds of missiles that are kinda like the same in that you can have a motor or an engine that can be used - perhaps with some modifications - to power 2-3 different kinds of missiles ? Or a guidance system that can be plugged into 2-3 different kinds of missiles.

Heck as a finance guy I can't even begin to explain myself so perhaps an analogy would make more sense; can we have a missile much the same way there are screwdrivers with one body and many different heads !

I know its crappy example but hey....I know my Mergers and Acquisitions not my Missiles !

What is being suggested is not switching out components, maybe add in a better radar or a new refueling pod. This is changing the entire role of the platform, it would be like expecting to switch AK to some avionics and then take it out on the runway to take flight. It just won't happen because that is a role it was never meant for.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hatf IX Nasr is a ballistic missile. You could reemploy some components like launchers, but you'ld need an entirely new missile,

And the range............?

 

[The Last of us]

@The Last of us Bro, The air to air missile is Fakour-90, which is based on the American Phoenix AIM-54

Various Types of Hi-Tech Missile Systems Go on Display in Iran's Military Parades - Missile ThreatMissile Threat

View attachment 253241 View attachment 253250

Bro, that Fakour missile as you said is just an upgraded Pheonix missile.
The sejill air to air missile was basically an air to air variant of hawk:

This project was from decades ago. I doubt it will ever go in into production for airforce. There are other missiles being developed.


Anyway, lets not take this thread too much off topic. If you have more questions, come in the Iranian section

 

[Indus Falcon]

Bro, that Fakour missile as you said is just an upgraded Pheonix missile.
The sejill air to air missile was basically an air to air variant of hawk:

This project was from decades ago. I doubt it will ever go in into production for airforce. There are other missiles being developed.


Anyway, lets not take this thread too much off topic. If you have more questions, come in the Iranian section

From what I know, Sajiel never got deployed, but the Fakhour did. Right?

Fakour is in limited production as of now and not in mass production. From last year's news, they're developing a new air to air missile. Time will tell if this new missile will replace the fakour.

Let's have Iranian tea in this thread, shall we:

Iranian Air Defense Systems | Page 59