Saka and Jauhar, the sole reason for the repeated defeats and downfall of Rajputs?

[TheGreatMaratha]

Technically, Akbar was born in present day Pak but I think he was born in the palace / fort of a Hindu Maharaja. That's about it.

Ok. And one more thing. We Indians don't go on saying that we ruled Pakistan during Maurya empire, Gupta empire, Shahi dynasty, etc. These guys have really funny logic. We can't blame them as they are just brainwashed like that.

 

[Jackdaws]

Ok. And one more thing. We Indians don't go on saying that we ruled Pakistan during Maurya empire, Gupta empire, Shahi dynasty, etc. These guys have really funny logic. We can't blame them as they are just brainwashed like that.

It's a two way street. Enough people here are also brainwashed. Haven't you received whatsapp forwards of Taj Mahal being Hindu and Nehru being Muslim and such absurd nonsense.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

It's a two way street. Enough people here are also brainwashed. Haven't you received whatsapp forwards of Taj Mahal being Hindu and Nehru being Muslim and such absurd nonsense.

I agree to that as well. I laugh at people who state Whatsapp messages as facts. Whenever I hear something fishy, I always ask the person where he has read it. And most of the times, people nowadays get info from Whatsapp.

Just like Pakistan, one worrying thing I now observe in India is the way people are brainswashed to just hate Gandhi, Nehru.

 

[Jackdaws]

I agree to that as well. I laugh at people who state Whatsapp messages as facts. Whenever I hear something fishy, I always ask the person where he has read it. And most of the times, people nowadays get info from Whatsapp.

Just like Pakistan, one worrying thing I now observe in India is the way people are brainswashed to just hate Gandhi, Nehru.

I don't know much as much about Pak but I see that they revere their founding fathers despite their flaws. India is the only country I've seen where they abuse and insult their founding fathers. Do Americans curse Washington and Jefferson? It's very dangerous for us a society in the long run if Godse worshippers run amok rewriting histories based on myths. Poor Nehru has to contend with the sheer incompetence of his idiotic descendants like Rahul baba. He set up Isro, IITs, IIMs, infra projects, linguistic states, ended Zamindari, built institutions which were constitutional, gave a fillip to the opposition. Whatsapp chaps think their grandfathers and great fathers were idiots to give Nehru complete mandate thrice. Yes, he screwed up in China and Kashmir and delayed Goa. He should be blamed for all that. I was talking to an African friend and he told me how highly Nehru is still held in Africa for making India a knowledge Superpower. Imagine these idiots questioning Darwin's Theory and saying Cow mutra will cure cancer. You can be a BJP supporter and that's fine. You can blame Congress for corruption and being led by a bunch of inept idiots and that's fine. But you can't rewrite the history of India to make Gowalkar and Godse as heroes. It's absurd.

 

[SIPRA]

I don't know much as much about Pak but I see that they revere their founding fathers despite their flaws. India is the only country I've seen where they abuse and insult their founding fathers.

Here, you are mistaken. We also have such a lot, and not an insignificant one, in Pakistan. Perhaps, Bangladesh is exception.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Funny how Pakistanis take credit of Afghan, Turk, Uzbek invaders and like to associate with them. But at the same time, Pakistanis hate the very Afghans that they have named their missiles after. Just to let you know, Mughals ruled your land as well. Even Hindus, Buddhists have ruled your land. But of course, Pakistan history starts from the invasion of bin Qasim.

Tell me, apart from Ranjit Singh (Sikh empire) and the Hindu and Buddhist Shai dynasties, what dynasties do you have to show for from your region? Will you keep hiding behind the back of Mughals lol and consider that 'you' guys ruled India. Yaar koi khud ka to start-up hona chahiye ya nahi? @Juggernaut_is_here @Jackdaws @Joe Shearer

It's like Indian/Pakistani Christians considering that the ruled whole subcontinent for 150 years just because Britishers were Christians lol.

And why don't you let Afghanistan occupy Pakistan then right now? After all, they are Muslim. Don't you look at everything from religious lens?

Also the Soomra and Samma dynasties of Sindh were native..They were Muslim Rajputs and gloriously drove out Arab influence from Sindh...proper son of the soil (religious confession doesnot matter)..It is frustrating to see many Pakistanis taking refuge under Afghan/Baloch banner to drive home the point of Islamic triumphalism...conveniently forgetting that ALL of those empires originated beyond the Khyber Pass

An argument can be made that everything west of Sialkot was more connected to Bactria than to Magadha or Kannauj....But the plains of Punjab were never the centre of power outside of the Shahis and the Sikhs ...okay may be during Indo-Greeks but then again they were a mix of Bactrians and Greeks

75 percent of the population trying to assume the history of 25 percent and that too the co-ethnicists of these 25 percent that exist beyond the Khyber...This would be as absurd as 80% Hindus of India claiming we Mughals conquered this entire Land



But I would blame Hindus for these ignorance of the historical situation...Since Independence Hindus have characterized these kingdoms of High middle ages as Islamic empires, rather than what they actually were--------------->Central Asian Nomadic Turkic Empires..For God's sake, they spoke Chagatai among themselves and not Urdu or Persian ......Even Muslim afghans were in full and fierce rebellion against them...


Wisely, the OxBridge historians of Buddhism (Warder,Gombrich etc.) always make it a point to underscore that it is the Central Asian turks who destroyed Buddhism in India and not Islam, per se


I cannot recommend this video enough to drive home the historical situation...The Land that is Pakistan was rarely the seat of all conquering empires

 

[Jackdaws]

Here, you are mistaken. We also have such a lot, and not an insignificant one, in Pakistan. Perhaps, Bangladesh is exception.

Really? All Pakistanis I met in my Uni days only spoke well about Jinnah.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't know much as much about Pak but I see that they revere their founding fathers despite their flaws. India is the only country I've seen where they abuse and insult their founding fathers. Do Americans curse Washington and Jefferson? It's very dangerous for us a society in the long run if Godse worshippers run amok rewriting histories based on myths. Poor Nehru has to contend with the sheer incompetence of his idiotic descendants like Rahul baba.

Can we not crowd-fund Rahul Baba's permanent re-location to some scuba-diving paradise?

He set up Isro, IITs, IIMs, infra projects, linguistic states, ended Zamindari, built institutions which were constitutional, gave a fillip to the opposition. Whatsapp chaps think their grandfathers and great fathers were idiots to give Nehru complete mandate thrice. Yes, he screwed up in China and Kashmir and delayed Goa. He should be blamed for all that. I was talking to an African friend and he told me how highly Nehru is still held in Africa for making India a knowledge Superpower. Imagine these idiots questioning Darwin's Theory and saying Cow mutra will cure cancer. You can be a BJP supporter and that's fine. You can blame Congress for corruption and being led by a bunch of inept idiots and that's fine. But you can't rewrite the history of India to make Gowalkar and Godse as heroes. It's absurd.

The worst is the mockery from knowledgeable people abroad when they recount these stories with relish. No, not the worst; the worst is being debagged on a daily basis on PDF itself by some teenaged patriot kiddie from the UK or Australia, just because of our Golwalkar, Godse and gau-mutra fixated morons.

Here, you are mistaken. We also have such a lot, and not an insignificant one, in Pakistan. Perhaps, Bangladesh is exception.

Others among the founders, maybe, but Jinnah has a strong fan following in knowledgeable circles in India; that admiration is not connected to a political position about Indo-Pakistani relations or about the raison d'etre of Pakistan, but about Jinnah's transcendent leadership. For obvious reasons, this following tends to mute itself and to refrain from loud public averments.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Also the Soomra and Samma dynasties of Sindh were native..They were Muslim Rajputs and gloriously drove out Arab influence from Sindh...proper son of the soil (religious confession doesnot matter)..It is frustrating to see many Pakistanis taking refuge under Afghan/Baloch banner to drive home the point of Islamic triumphalism...conveniently forgetting that ALL of those empires originated beyond the Khyber Pass

Those were short lived splinter states, but the vast majority of Muslim empires were governed and run by people native to the region.

Well to us Indians are foreigners. Hence the situation in Kashmir.

Baloch and Pukhtoons are sons of the soil to us. They are very much a fabric of our country.

Rajput were valiant but poor strategists. Their greatest contribution is that they stopped the Islamic invasions and were extremely proud of their culture, heritage and religion.

We were one of the first people Islamized by Turks. We joined the Turkic, Afghan empires and partook in conquests further East.

By the end of the Mughal dynasty, the most prestigious Rajput clans, like those in Punjab, had not only become fully Muslim, but were Turkified too.

However it helps you sleep at night, so do so. Reality is that the Rajputs were high up in the Mughal ecosystem.

Lets not forget the use of psychological warfare from the Mongols, Turks and the Huns. If they are gonna make people surrender and submit you gotta be brutal and ruthlessness.

Nomads were always on the move hence why their element of speed and surprised their enemies.

Abbassids were actually shocked when the Mongols came knocking down into Baghdad many thought they would not survive the harsh terrain. Abbassids actually thought it would take months for the Mongols to reach them which meant they had enough time to prepare.

Nomadic armies also weakened many places through raiding. These raids weakened settlements not to mention sucked up manpower too if you think about it.

In the end civilsation was too strong.

Mongols used to create refugee crises from attacking small villages and atleast one large city, it would force the other cities to take in citizens, which would weaken them, by the time the Mongols came, the people would surrender after hearing those gruesome stories.

Brutal but effective. However because of this, When Mongols collapsed, they were hunted in Every area of the world and eliminated.

As Alexander the Great expressed long time back - what a strange country it is Selucus..

If they lose a single soldier they feel like they have lost an army....

If they lose a single jet they feel like Rafael is the god to save them....

If only they had Rafale, lol.

 

[Old School]

While we are throwing mud on each other and bragging about our ancient potency, it is the Western capitalism which has now become the undisputed master of the world. It is the rise of capitalism which has sent all the ancient powers to the oblivion. Capitalism has now consumed all the religion in the world and enslaved the world population. If one person becomes a millionaire, thousands more becoming paupers at the same time. Think about it .

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

While we are throwing mud on each other and bragging about our ancient potency, it is the Western capitalism which has now become the undisputed master of the world. It is the rise of capitalism which has sent all the ancient powers to the oblivion. Capitalism has now consumed all the religion in the world and enslaved the world population. If one person becomes a millionaire, thousands more becoming paupers at the same time. Think about it .

Just a group of Indians throwing dirt on Pakistani history as usual.

 

[Old School]

Just a group of Indians throwing dirt on Pakistani history as usual.

That is the true success of Western capitalism. They can throw dirts while Western capitalism is gaining more capital. Washington, Paris, London can make more money if we can kill each other even more.

 

[Yankee-stani]

That is the true success of Western capitalism. They can throw dirts while Western capitalism is gaining more capital.

>Uses time machine to go back to 1989 prevent fall of Berlin Wall and rise neo liberal Capitalist order

 

[Old School]

>Uses time machine to go back to 1989 prevent fall of Berlin Wall and rise neo liberal Capitalist order

More worrying is the popularity of imperialist/capitalist puppets like Erdogan among PAK middle class clerks. I love the great masterpiece of Anton Chekhov's "The death of a Clerk". Read it.

 

[SIPRA]

Really? All Pakistanis I met in my Uni days only spoke well about Jinnah.

You must be right. In any case, such people, in Pakistan, are a small minority and could never gain political ascendancy, as has happened in India. In my opinion, bashing Gandhi and independence era INC has drastically increased in India, with increasing success of BJP and other extreme political outfits.