Sajjan Kumar acquitted in 1984 case, justice Denied to Sikhs.

[jha]

Mind ur language, the court only decides on the proofs and evidence submitted before it.

Its more of a case of CBI's misuse by manmohan singh and sonia gandhi...................so................shame on them.

Its a shameful day for whole India. The Judiciary has been taken on ride for 29 years and why did not SCI take suo-motto for this horrendous massacre of minority community...? This judgement has let down whole India and every Indian. So Yes.. Shame on Us.. Shame on the judicial system of India.. Shame on all Indians..

And dont try to preach me ... If you dont like a comment, report it....

 

[perplexed]

See, now you are changing your standard of evaluation, to stick to your original conclusion, even in the light of new facts that have been presented to you. Moving the goalposts.

Earlier you said not a single person ("NADA") has been convicted for the 1984 riots, and THAT is the difference. When I pointed out that 450+ people have been convicted so far, and at least 50+ have gotten life terms, you are now saying that the difference is in the "big fish". It is a classic case of going from the conclusion to the premise, instead of the other way round.

Other than maya kodnani, how many "big fish" were convicted for gujarat riots? Vinay Katiyar, Amit shah etc not only walk free, but have been given high positions in the party for the upcoming elections.

There's no classic case here. Name a single senior congress man with incriminating evidence against them who has been convicted.. !!

Now that you are nitpicking my comment up.. so let me just extrapolate your logic.. since sajjan kumar went free lets set MODI free ? and while we are at it, since 10 people have got life terms for this case and Kodnani has been convicted in this case, can we just say we are equal ?

The point is ...

The FACT stands.. MODI has still to get a clean chit and there's a SC monitored SIT outside any govt. purview and on the other hand we have this known killer who has been set free who has been tried by the CBI !

While you guys can cry a river on about MODI, some other guys is roaming free !! Enjoy a good night sleep taking solace in the fact that the guy on which your sight was set is still to get a clean chit.. to hell with other people's justice !

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The whole matter of Modi's role in the riots has been investigated by the independent, Supreme Court appointed SIT. The SIT found that Modi did his best to control the riots.

You are like the witch-hunting fanatics of medieval Europe.

You need to go by logic and facts, not by your prejudices.

If you want you can try to challenge the SIT conclusions on facts.

Zakia Jaffri is trying that but the poor woman is being misled by greedy criminals like Teesta. She changed her statement many years after the riots in an effort to implicate Modi and now she finds that she cannot prove the allegations put in her mouth by Teesta.

Back to topic: Sorry to hear about Sajjan Kumar, he needs to be brought to justice.

The line you guys are taking is that Sajjan Kumar's acquittal was wrong. Technically, wasn;t sajjan kumar also investigated and found 'not guilty'. How is it that Modi's acquittal 'true' acquittal' and sajjan kumar's a 'false' one. Stupid, hypocritial quibbling.

The whole matter of Modi's role in the riots has been investigated by the independent, Supreme Court appointed SIT. The SIT found that Modi did his best to control the riots.

You are like the witch-hunting fanatics of medieval Europe.

You need to go by logic and facts, not by your prejudices.

If you want you can try to challenge the SIT conclusions on facts.

Zakia Jaffri is trying that but the poor woman is being misled by greedy criminals like Teesta. She changed her statement many years after the riots in an effort to implicate Modi and now she finds that she cannot prove the allegations put in her mouth by Teesta.

Back to topic: Sorry to hear about Sajjan Kumar, he needs to be brought to justice.

BS reasoning. By this account even Sajjan Kumar was legally 'acquitted' in a court of law and shouldn't be further harassed. How come modi's acquittal is 'true' acquittal and 'Sajjan kumar's is 'false'?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Guys don't make this a Modi vs Congress issue. Each case is different and should be treated as such. 2002/Modi case has been all but sorted so leave it there. The victims of 1984 still have little justice.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Aren't we missing a critical difference between the two case. In the case of Gujrat the Investigation was run by Supreme Court Appointed and Monitored SIT. Most of the cases were heard by courts outside Gujrat.

While in the Sikh Riots case investigation was done by CBI. The same CBI that was caught with its pants down sleeping with the Govt yesterday. Supreme Court yesterday said it doesn't trust CBI anymore. If the highest court doesn't trust CBI anymore then how come you can expect the ordinary citizens of this country to trust CBI.

I think perception that Justice has been done in this case is totally missing. Supreme Court needs to appoint another SIT to look into Sikh Riots cases and monitor the same.

Else the congress and CBI will drag it for another 29 years.

Guys don't make this a Modi vs Congress issue. Each case is different and should be treated as such. 2002/Modi case has been all but sorted so leave it there. The victims of 1984 still have little justice.

No...BOTH should hang, only then will the fundamental principle be established.

 

[perplexed]

Else the congress and CBI will drag it for another 29 years.



No...BOTH should hang, only then will the fundamental principle be established.

Dude a dose of reality ! One of the guy in your "BOTH" just got a clean chit from Suprem Court.. best that !

 

[janon]

There's no classic case here. Name a single senior congress man with incriminating evidence against them who has been convicted.. !!

Now that you are nitpicking my comment up.. so let me just extrapolate your logic.. since sajjan kumar went free lets set MODI free ? and while we are at it, since 10 people have got life terms for this case and Kodnani has been convicted in this case, can we just say we are equal ?

The point is ...

The FACT stands.. MODI has still to get a clean chit and there's a SC monitored SIT outside any govt. purview and on the other hand we have this known killer who has been set free who has been tried by the CBI !

While you guys can cry a river on about MODI, some other guys is roaming free !! Enjoy a good night sleep taking solace in the fact that the guy on which your sight was set is still to get a clean chit.. to hell with other people's justice !

That part is your bias. Another person would say that modi is a "known" killer who has not been convicted. Unless somebody is judged to be guilty by a court, he cannot be convicted or arrested. Neither modi nor sajjan kumar were proved guilty, so both of them are free. (I'm not saying either person is innocent. But neither person were proved guilty, so they will both be free.)

How do you "know" sajjan is a killer? You can't just "know" it, it has to be proved in a court. And the courts are apolitical. The congress party does not and cannot give orders to courts. It is the court that set him free, not the congress party. Now you could say that the CBI did a shoddy job, but can you substantiate that? I doubt it.

Look...my only point in this whole thread is that people are using completely different standards depending on the what they want to believe. If somebody calls modi a mass murderer, most of you will point out that it has not been proved.

Look how many nuances you are all prepared to go into to defend modi and to attack sajjan. I'm just trying to get people out of this selection bias.

If you are accusing that the CBI was complicit in letting him go, I'm sure you can take that to court and argue it. But don't you think you are currently making that up, depending on what you want to believe? If not, if you have legitimate reasons, please tell me. Please tell me on what points the CBI did not do its job properly, where they screwed up, etc. You can't just say he is "a known killer", in the same manner that pakistanis say modi is a "known mass murderer".

Again: I have not expressed support or opposition to either of these two people, or to either party. I am simply pointing out the selection bias rampant here.

 

[perplexed]

The line you guys are taking is that Sajjan Kumar's acquittal was wrong. Technically, wasn;t sajjan kumar also investigated and found 'not guilty'. How is it that Modi's acquittal 'true' acquittal' and sajjan kumar's a 'false' one. Stupid, hypocritial quibbling.



BS reasoning. By this account even Sajjan Kumar was legally 'acquitted' in a court of law and shouldn't be further harassed. How come modi's acquittal is 'true' acquittal and 'Sajjan kumar's is 'false'?

1. Modi hasn't got any clean chit from SC while the other guy just had

2. One is being investigated by a SIT outside any govt. purview and the latter was investigated by CBI. It is a known FACT that CBI was being used by the govt to it's advantage ( SC gave a tight slap to the govt recently ).
While the independent SIT is still going through the evidences against MODI, that killer sajjan kumar has gone free !

A whole world of difference !

 

[janon]

Guys don't make this a Modi vs Congress issue. Each case is different and should be treated as such. 2002/Modi case has been all but sorted so leave it there. The victims of 1984 still have little justice.

The victims of both riots have gotten little justice. Some 50-60 people have been arrested for Gujarat riots, and 450 for the '84 riots, although in both cases, thousands of rioters went on a rampage.

The courts did not find any evidence to prosecute Modi. The courts did not find any evidence to prosecute Sajjan kumar. That is where facts end, and allegations based on people's personal views start.

 

[perplexed]

That part is your bias. Another person would say that modi is a "known" killer who has not been convicted. Unless somebody is judged to be guilty by a court, he cannot be convicted or arrested. Neither modi nor sajjan kumar were proved guilty, so both of them are free. (I'm not saying either person is innocent. But neither person were proved guilty, so they will both be free.)

How do you "know" sajjan is a killer? You can't just "know" it, it has to be proved in a court. And the courts are apolitical. The congress party does not and cannot give orders to courts. It is the court that set him free, not the congress party. Now you could say that the CBI did a shoddy job, but can you substantiate that? I doubt it.

Look...my only point in this whole thread is that people are using completely different standards depending on the what they want to believe. If somebody calls modi a mass murderer, most of you will point out that it has not been proved.

Look how many nuances you are all prepared to go into to defend modi and to attack sajjan. I'm just trying to get people out of this selection bias.

If you are accusing that the CBI was complicit in letting him go, I'm sure you can take that to court and argue it. But don't you think you are currently making that up, depending on what you want to believe? If not, if you have legitimate reasons, please tell me. Please tell me on what points the CBI did not do its job properly, where they screwed up, etc. You can't just say he is "a known killer", in the same manner that pakistanis say modi is a "known mass murderer".

Again: I have not expressed support or opposition to either of these two people, or to either party. I am simply pointing out the selection bias rampant here.

I will save this quote for posterity.. Believe me .. when MODI will go free ( and I will hate to call me an indian that day ) I will post this on that same thread as a reply to you !

Just try to imagine that situation and then try to gauge my frustration now !

ps. The reason why I am so hopeful or dare say blindly believe MODI will go free is less to do with my possible bias towards him and more towards how SC reaches conclusions when it comes to convict political heavyweights as evident from this case !

 

[Punjabbi Munda]

Else the congress and CBI will drag it for another 29 years.



No...BOTH should hang, only then will the fundamental principle be established.

Was modi distributing 100Rs notes and liquor to fanatics asking them to kill people?If he was,he should be.
Was modi carrying a march against a community?
You know nothing,kid.Keep supporting Firangi Sonia aunty

 

[T90TankGuy]

A) I think Sajjan Kumar is guilty
B) I think Congress has shielded him & protected him
C) I think Congress is trash and garbage because of it

I think the same about Modi- he led a program that killed 100s and should be hanged. People who want Sajjan Kumar in the gallows are right. But they go wrong when they use different standards for Modi.

I feel the same way . i am a congresman but i do feel angry when they protect b@stards like sajjan kumar. but the logic that the opposition uses that while the congress leadership is responsible for 84, modi is not responsible for 2002 is BS. one should use the same yardstick for both.

 

[janon]

I will save this quote for posterity.. Believe me .. when MODI will go free ( and I will hate to call me an indian that day ) I will post this on that same thread as a reply to you !

Just try to imagine that situation and then try to gauge my frustration now !

ps. The reason why I am so hopeful or dare say blindly believe MODI will go free is less to do with my possible bias towards him and more towards how SC reaches conclusions when it comes to convict political heavyweights as evident from this case !

I'm not sure what you are saying. Modi is already free. He is not being tried anymore.

 

[perplexed]

I'm not sure what you are saying. Modi is already free. He is not being tried anymore.

SIT verdict can be challenged and a new SIT can come up or SC can go over everything as many times it pleases or finds justice pending ! He is still to be pronounced free by SC !


AND

All the people who are saying that since SC has pronouced him not guilty, just skim throught the evidences in public domain.. This Durjan Kumar was leading the crowd from the front.. !! While MODI even if he had planned didnt had the guts to come to the streets atleast !

Thats the diff !

 

[janon]

SIT verdict can be challenged and a new SIT can come up or SC can go over everything as many times it pleases or finds justice pending ! He is still to be pronounced free by SC !


AND

All the people who are saying that since SC has pronouced him not guilty, just skim throught the evidences in public domain.. This Durjan Kumar was leading the crowd from the front.. !! While MODI even if he had planned didnt had the guts to come to the streets atleast !

Thats the diff !

Sajjan Kumar's troubles are not over either. This verdict can also be challenged, and by the way, he has been cleared only in one (out of three) cases. He will land in jail if the verdict on the other cases go against him.

It doesn't make sense at this stage for the congress party to pressure the CBI to give him a clean chit. He is not important for the party. In fact, he is a liability, not an asset. Modi on the other hand, is becoming the BJP's biggest asset. (If modi did not exist right now, the BJP wouldn't bother to contest the next election. It is solely on his popularity and charisma that they are riding on, for the 2014 elections.)

IMO, the congress should be hoping that Sajjan Kumar gets convicted and arrested. You see, then they can claim to have been absolved of their past deeds. He can be a sort of scapegoat, and they would opine that the party is faultless, it was just a few bad apples, and they have all been brought to justice. If he roams free, that's ammunition for the opposition to attack them. All the members here are so angry at the congress today, when he was acquitted - and whom does that hurt? The congress party. Think about it. Would the congress party rather protect a worthless, reviled, unimportant Sajjan kumar, or would they rather protect their votes? Politics is after all, logical. Parties think about what will win them votes and what will lose them votes. Sajjan roaming free loses them votes.

All the politicking aside, it is sad that there will never be justice for the majority of victims in those two riots, the two biggest blots on the secular fabric of India. As I said before, only a few hundred people are even being tried, also the rioters numbered in thousands. We are only angry about the perpetrators not being brought to justice. To me, the scarier thought is that thousands of people in India would actually organize themselves into mobs, and go out and riot and rape and loot and plunder communities who follow another religion. The gujarat riots happened just ten years back, and thousands of people were willing to assemble together and mehtodically and systematically destroy entire communities. The attacks were well orchestarted, and there was method in the madness. Both hindus and muslims did it. So much enmity and hatred existed in their minds, just ten years back.

Yes, I know that such levels of enmity existed only in some parts of the country - gujarat, punjab (earlier), mumbai etc. But it is still scary that it existed in India, which is otherwise so tolerant and diverse. I don't know whether I can say with confidence that it won't happen again, though I sure hope so.