SAFIR-3 space launch vehicle

[GWXP]

UDMH/AK27 is the primary Iranian propellant for newer liquids...

So if we assume it can deliver 1,5tons to LEO...What payload can it deliver as a silo based ICBM?

Also elaboration---Soroosh is a liquid or solid fuel SLV?

 

[TruthHurtz]

So if we assume it can deliver 1,5tons to LEO...What payload can it deliver as a silo based ICBM?

Also elaboration---Soroosh is a liquid or solid fuel SLV?

Both liquid.

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

@Galactic Penguin SST

Check my lastest revised analysis in the space thread:

Sarir is Irans equivalent to the Russian Kosmos-3M without the need of any complex, expensive technology it will achieve >1,5t LEO.

@PeeD, do you realize that the old vintage Russian Kosmos-3M uses the most obsolete German low-tech WWII-era graphite jet vanes?

Only seen in the Safir-1, but a feature that even the Safir-2 did no longer share, but extensively propagated by enemy nation's propaganda machine to belittle and ridicule Iran's scientific capabilities.

This 1960s era Russian Kosmos-3M's static rocket engine with single turbopump and dual nozzles, can in no way be compared to the most advanced 80-tf engine that will power the Safir-3, fully gimballed, with a single nozzle!

With such a generation gap, it is highly expected that the Safir-3's engine efficiency will be light years ahead.

http://archive.is/ap8rg/27890dfc210890000af1896d81bfb04569d6bdfc.jpg ; https://archive.is/ap8rg/dd8b534408c142a30c4c04522f4f8a48bfe41506/scr.png ; http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/East_Europe_3/Kosmos_3/Gallery/Kosmos3.htm ; http://archive.ph/LwJYf
▲ 1. Vintage Russian Kosmos-3M using the most obsolete WWII-era graphite jet vanes.

Soroush is a distant future 4m liquid SLV.

Not distant, only after the first Safir-3 flight test, work on the Safir-4 (Soroush) can start: with more room in the engine bay for double the engines number (4).

 

[PeeD]

@PeeD, do you realize that the old vintage Russian Kosmos-3M uses the most obsolete German low-tech WWII-era graphite jet vanes?

Only seen in the Safir-1, but a feature that even the Safir-2 did no longer share, but extensively propagated by enemy nation's propaganda machine to belittle and ridicule Iran's scientific capabilities.

This 1960s era Russian Kosmos-3M's static rocket engine with single turbopump and dual nozzles, can in no way be compared to the most advanced 80-tf engine that will power the Safir-3, fully gimballed, with a single nozzle!

With such a generation gap, it is highly expected that the Safir-3's engine efficiency will be light years ahead.

http://archive.is/ap8rg/27890dfc210890000af1896d81bfb04569d6bdfc.jpg ; https://archive.is/ap8rg/dd8b534408c142a30c4c04522f4f8a48bfe41506/scr.png ; http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/East_Europe_3/Kosmos_3/Gallery/Kosmos3.htm ; http://archive.ph/LwJYf
▲ 1. Vintage Russian Kosmos-3M using the most obsolete WWII-era graphite jet vanes.




Not distant, only after the first Safir-3 flight test, work on the Safir-4 (Soroush) can start: with more room in the engine bay for double the engines number (4).

Sure in many terms, including omitting jet vanes, the Simorgh and the Sadid are more advanced than the Kosmos-3M.
I talk about overall SLV parameters.

You can ask yourself: will Iran update the Simorgh to the Sadid by the measures I explained to get a Kosmos-3M, 1,5t LEO equivalent with cheap and proven tech, or will it go for totally new high-tech solutions?

Look first stage thrust level of Simorgh already indicates that the goal is something like the Kosmos-3M. That's risk management.
Will Soroush have something new? Yes maybe, if it makes economical sense.

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Sure in many terms, including omitting jet vanes, the Simorgh and the Sadid are more advanced than the Kosmos-3M.
I talk about overall SLV parameters.

You can ask yourself: will Iran update the Simorgh to the Sadid by the measures I explained to get a Kosmos-3M, 1,5t LEO equivalent with cheap and proven tech, or will it go for totally new high-tech solutions?

Look first stage thrust level of Simorgh already indicates that the goal is something like the Kosmos-3M. That's risk management.
Will Soroush have something new? Yes maybe, if it makes economical sense.

The major problem is that in your model, there is no place to add 4 additional steering verniers. And there is no place for 4 main gimballed nozzles either (~80 centimeter diameter each), they would be impaired in their swivelling movement! Graphite jet vanes would be the only possibility. But as this solution is obviously too backward, the only alternative is two main nozzles to three maximum.

First official rendering of the Soroush SLV

http://archive.is/zo6HN/140b83fc9cdc05285ec0c766c240d76c488d94de.jpg ; https://archive.is/zo6HN/02e72e22a5fc6c362559e233a09f7a3af5d8bdd2/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203084417/https://cdn.mashreghnews.ir/d/2020/02/03/4/2708604.jpg ; https://cdn.mashreghnews.ir/d/2020/02/03/4/2708604.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203...ان-برای-دستیابی-به-مدار-ژئو-چابهار-سکوی-پرتاب ; http://archive.ph/2Ul5z
▲ 1. Safir SLV family 3rd February 2020: Soroush, Sarir, Simorgh, Safir.

✗ Nothing is said about the strap-on boosters of Soroush, are they solid propellant? What are the trusts?

✗ And nothing about the mysterious launcher with 2 strap-on boosters.

✗ Nothing about the Sepehr.

http://archive.ph/xXlEC/d7a7fc67c8b4d78aebd355960804c8b11ea4056f.png ; https://archive.ph/xXlEC/03f4d45d36655a4c252d0a6ba5ac2fb9c4f25fcc/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200103031814/https://i.imgur.com/JpdqGph.png
▲ 2. Screen capture from video of an Iranian Safir-2 with two strap-on rocket boosters. Seemingly called Safir-2B.

http://archive.ph/jAWgF/f7df4e178a82e251deb98642786dfb87760d9891.jpg ; https://archive.ph/jAWgF/348a1d53b67a5975a44fc6f1c44a7d543c34cc98/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203084828/https://i.imgur.com/3WvQsd0.jpg
▲ 3. Sepehr SLV speculation. Sarir speculation is already obsolete as of 3rd February 2020.

 

[Philosopher]

First official rendering of the Soroush SLV

http://archive.is/zo6HN/140b83fc9cdc05285ec0c766c240d76c488d94de.jpg ; https://archive.is/zo6HN/02e72e22a5fc6c362559e233a09f7a3af5d8bdd2/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203084417/https://cdn.mashreghnews.ir/d/2020/02/03/4/2708604.jpg ; https://cdn.mashreghnews.ir/d/2020/02/03/4/2708604.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203084624/https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/1037758/خیز-بلند-ایران-برای-دستیابی-به-مدار-ژئو-چابهار-سکوی-پرتاب ; http://archive.ph/2Ul5z
▲ 1. Safir SLV family 3rd February 2020: Soroush, Sarir, Simorgh, Safir.

Are those pictures to scale? I am confused, so the 4 meter diameter of Soroush is calculated after the booster are placed? Otherwise without the boosters it looks to have the same diameter of simorgh....

 

[GWXP]

Are those pictures to scale? I am confused, so the 4 meter diameter of Soroush is calculated after the booster are placed? Otherwise without the boosters it looks to have the same diameter of simorgh....

Well even Space X doesn,t have a 4m diameter rocket....this is huge....

Soroush is 4m with boosters.....the real question is Soroush's payload to LEO

 

[Philosopher]

Well even Space X doesn,t have a 4m diameter rocket....this is huge....

Soroush is 4m with boosters.....the real question is Soroush's payload to LEO

They were they talking about it was as if the SLV itself had a 4meter diameter. Why would they include the diameter after adding boosters? The boosters are just added on systems...They should have just said the Soroush is a longer sarir with added boosters, which is what it seems to be.

 

[skyshadow]

Well even Space X doesn,t have a 4m diameter rocket....this is huge....

Soroush is 4m with boosters.....the real question is Soroush's payload to LEO

Sarir +700 kg to 1000 km or LEO


Sorosh +1000 kg to 36000 km or GEO

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Are those pictures to scale? I am confused, so the 4 meter diameter of Soroush is calculated after the booster are placed? Otherwise without the boosters it looks to have the same diameter of simorgh....

Haha! Bro, according to the past decade, all mediatic representation of Iranian launchers have proven to be inaccurate, to say the least! To the point that rumor has it that it might in fact be a systematic campaign of disinformation...

✗ Simorgh was from 2010 until last year's Bahman 22 celebration presented with a fake mock-up: first with wrong dimension, then wrong proportion, and finally lacking the 4 smaller steering verniers! All this can be verified in older posts.

✗ Qaem is simply a farce when above the first stage.

✗ There are at least 4 known different representations of launchers with strap-on boosters so far...

✗ The first mock-up of the manned capsule 'E1' is very different from the following one.

✗ Unless it is released by the official Iranian Space Agency, it is advised to take all mock-ups and CGI renderings with a grain of salt!

3rd February 2020

Barari: Next step in Iran's space program is the launch of a sun-synchronous satellite using the new Sarir SLV. First Sarir launch planned for the year 1400 (2021-2022).

https://twitter.com/fab_hinz/status/1224387961573109760
https://www.asriran.com/fa/news/712...ی-از-مرکز-داده‌های-ماهواره‌ای-تا-۴۵-روز-آینده
​

Official: Iran Plans to Send 1-ton Satellite into Orbit by 2024

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:43

TEHRAN (FNA)- Head of the Iran Space Agency (ISA) Morteza Barari announced plans to orbit satellites which weigh 1,000kg by 2024.

"We will be able to send 1,000-kg satellites to the orbit from 2022 to 2024," Barari said in an interview with the state TV on Sunday night.

He also revealed plans to send satellites into geostationary orbit, which is a circular orbit around 36,000 kilometers (22,320 miles) above the Earth's equator, noting that they will be carried by home-made Soroush satellite carrier.

"This step will start on 2024 and we hope to accomplish it by 2026," Barari said.

http://en.farsnews.ir/newstext.aspx?nn=13981114000268
http://archive.ph/SHESF
​

4th February 2020

Spoke with Iran Space Agency chief @barari_ir about new SLV projects.
Sarir: can carry an over 500kg payload & deliver it at 1000km altitude - length: 35m, diameter: 2.4m
Soroush: can carry an over 1000kg payload & deliver it at 36000km altitude — liquid-propellant, diameter: 4m

https://twitter.com/KhosroKalbasi/status/1224335207223963648
​

4th February 2020

Geosynchronous orbit space launcher 'Soroush' is the fourth phase in the country's space program

https://www.yjc.ir/fa/news/7234656/...زمان-فضایی-برای-ساخت-ماهواره‌های-۵۰۰-کیلوگرمی
http://archive.ph/QRwZr
​

This means Soroush is the first of the Safir-4 family.

Therefore: Soroush SLV, should be able to place some ~2'000 kg to GTO, and ~ 4'000 to LEO: enough for the 'E1' single seater manned orbital capsule.

http://archive.ph/5q1F3/384e9473d6906c5bdc4ef3900e0d6dc4926d49e1.jpg ; https://archive.ph/5q1F3/f919bfce759c1b86edabb67685d2fa339ab0c8fa/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200204114950/https://i.imgur.com/8GaxK4b.jpg
▲ 1. Soroush SLV speculation. As of 4th February 2020.

 

[GWXP]

Official: Iran Plans to Send 1-ton Satellite into Orbit by 2024

"We will be able to send 1,000-kg satellites to the orbit from 2022 to 2024," Barari said in an interview with the state TV on Sunday night.

Sarir: can carry an over 500kg payload & deliver it at 1000km altitude - length: 35m, diameter: 2.4m​

So Sarir "can carry an over 500kg payload" or "Send 1-ton Satellite into Orbit by 2024"

Which one is true for Sarir----"500kg payload" or "1 ton until 2024"?​

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

They were they talking about it was as if the SLV itself had a 4meter diameter. Why would they include the diameter after adding boosters? The boosters are just added on systems...They should have just said the Soroush is a longer sarir with added boosters, which is what it seems to be.

This is a model of the future Iranian space launch vehicle displayed in an exhibition showcasing Iran's aerospace technological achievements that is currently underway at Amirkabir University in Tehran.

Presumably the Soroush, with a measured core booster diameter of ~36 pixels.

The measured strap-on booster diameter is ~20 pixels.

The measured total maximum diameter is ~77 pixels.

This means a core booster diameter to total maximum diameter ratio of some 1:2.13

• If diameter of core booster is 2.4 meter then total diameter is 5.13 meters, and strap-on booster diameter is 1.3 meter.

• If diameter of core booster is 4 meter then total diameter is 8.52 meters, and strap-on booster diameter is 2.2 meter.

http://archive.is/1KiIt/56b5b1ecf44dfbec5f3e81e68756ed7201d80063.jpg ; https://archive.is/1KiIt/b2cf8278890cf9d2a623b7e8372630ead9d738bd/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200206114153/https://media.mehrnews.com/d/2020/02/05/4/3372837.jpg ; http://en.mehrnews.com/photo/155339/Exhibition-of-aerospace-technological-achievements-in-Tehran ; http://archive.ph/4ShKy
▲ 1. Model of future Iranian Soroush space launch vehicle with 4 strap-on boosters. TEHRAN, Feb. 06 (MNA) – An exhibition showcasing Iran's aerospace technological achievements is currently underway at Amirkabir University in Tehran, on the sidelines of the 18th International Conference of Iranian Aerospace Society.

Notice that there is clearly 3 stages, indicated by the external pipes for the fuel. The 4th stage of the Soroush can't be seen, as it might be the upper stage for GEO transfert, inside the fairing.

• Also according to the external pipe's length, the strap-on boosters are as long as the first stage, probably some ~20 meters.

All 4 strap-on boosters are also of liquid propellant type.

• Second stage might be ~20 meters long.

• Third stage ~ 5 meters long.

• Upper stage less than 5 meters long.

In this case, the payload capacity is estimated to range ~3 tons in GTO. More than 6 tons in LEO. Can easily place the 3 seaters or Iranian 'Soyuz' manned spacecraft in LEO.

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

The short first central stage comes as a surprise.

Those tubes coming out of the "boosters" too...

This combined gives me the feeling that we see a Proton SLV like solution here, all liquid.
This all-liquid would make sense for a full size capsule with docking system for the 2030's.

If these are hence no boosters but tanks then it would also explain the very long second stage that would need th Simorgh first stage due to its mass.
The third stage would also need, the unknown Iranian engine to lift that full sized 2,4m stage.

This explanation would also explain the different interstage lengths.

So if I'm right, those strap-on"tanks" would also need liquid motors.
What would fit into a 0,7m diameter? Scud engine, R-27 engine, or most likely, that unknown Iranian engine: at 15t thrust each, it would provide 60t additional thrust to a non-veniered Simorgh 4-engine cluster for a total of 200t thrust. Enough for a 130 ton Soroush.

So total thrust profile would be:

Stage-1 200t
Stage-2 150t (Simorgh)
Stage-3 60t (4x unknown Iranian engine)

Solid boosters are the easier path, but are not suited for manned flights + solids are IRGC business.

Alas, total photogrammetric mismeasurement!

If the total maximum diameter is 4 meter, then the core booster is 1.87 meter. That would be smaller than the Safir-2. Absurd.

http://archive.ph/jLzcV/74395f1b7b465bd0be005cefd3213ca3afa852f4.jpg ; https://archive.ph/jLzcV/77c86264083b9020fcb69ff2e66741d200c390ce/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200209140541/https://i.imgur.com/MeR37G0.jpg
▲ 1. Old drawings found in Iranian forum.

• First stage might be ~21 meters long.

• Second stage might be ~21 meters long.

Slightly short of 60 meters long. Note that this would match the size of the Chinese CZ-2F & family. Indeed that makes more sense.

Color?

How about a nice bright pink colour?

Or for Uzi do it in the Israeli flag's colour scheme.

Coincidence? I think not!

http://archive.is/Niz3N/d77f7f62b227ecddcbbc36bc852baf0e640e2039.jpg ; https://archive.is/Niz3N/caf2442ef373cd749dc8f0b55b9775a9b8e0781c/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200209135856/https://i.imgur.com/FzyjwiL.jpg
▲ 2. Safir SLV family speculation, as of February 2020.

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Sarir is Safir-3, Soroush is Safir-4.

Publish Date: 10 February 1398-07:35 (2020)

The head of the Iranian space agency said: We are developing the third generation of Iranian space launchers, with the Sarir that should be able to put thousands of kg in 600 kilometers orbit.
According to plan, we decided to complete the development of the third phase by 2024 (1402 Persian calendar).
The fourth phase, with Soroush, will be completed by 2029 (1407).

https://www.yjc.ir/00UNol
http://web.archive.org/web/20200210...-۱-ایرانی‌ها-در-بهار-منتظر-ماهواره-بعدی-باشند
http://archive.ph/SMgz6
​

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Feb 24, 2020

People like you and me who spend enough time on the subject should be able to some extent screen out the western style BS so what does it mater its data

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/zoljanah-solid-propellant-space-launcher.652816/page-2#post-12106591

Alas, the confusion starts even earlier, that is at the source in Iranian media.

Take Tasnimnews's representation of the Sarir and Soroush launchers. First illustration from author Fatherland9 dated from 3rd February 2020:

http://archive.is/zo6HN/140b83fc9cdc05285ec0c766c240d76c488d94de.jpg ; https://archive.is/zo6HN/02e72e22a5fc6c362559e233a09f7a3af5d8bdd2/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203084417/https://cdn.mashreghnews.ir/d/2020/02/03/4/2708604.jpg ; https://cdn.mashreghnews.ir/d/2020/02/03/4/2708604.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200203...ان-برای-دستیابی-به-مدار-ژئو-چابهار-سکوی-پرتاب ; http://archive.ph/2Ul5z
▲ 1. Safir SLV family 3rd February 2020: Soroush, Sarir, Simorgh, Safir.

✗ Nothing said about the strap-on boosters of Soroush, are they solid propellant? What are their diameters? What are their thrust?

✗ Nothing about the mysterious launcher with 2 strap-on boosters.

✗ Nothing about the Sepehr.

Then benefiting from the mandatory worldwide COVID-19 lockdown and the associated rest, they seemed to come to their senses, though belatedly, with a revised new drawing on 29th March 2020:

http://archive.vn/OpAeb/c1bab9d609942ee5a6f0d1fdcab976713d98d8e4.jpg ; https://archive.vn/OpAeb/32ee370b0e05a67172ef0289b21df02f335781c3/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200418211102/https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUL-3dOWAAA8uE5?format=jpg&name=900x900 ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200418...والجناح-ماهواره-برهای-ایرانی-را-بیشتر-بشناسید ; http://archive.vn/XNxkq ; https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...والجناح-ماهواره-برهای-ایرانی-را-بیشتر-بشناسید
▲ 2. Safir SLV family 29th March 2020: Soroush, Sarir, Simorgh, Safir.

But obviously inspired [plagiarized] by the illustration (from a North Korean source) first published here on 9th February 2020, while still omitting the external main engine's nozzles... and of course the color schemes:

http://archive.is/Niz3N/d77f7f62b227ecddcbbc36bc852baf0e640e2039.jpg ; https://archive.is/Niz3N/caf2442ef373cd749dc8f0b55b9775a9b8e0781c/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20200209135856/https://i.imgur.com/FzyjwiL.jpg
▲ 3. Safir SLV family speculation, as of February 2020.

Conclusion, always take all the official media's informations with a pinch of salt, and draw your own models, that can't be worse.