SAC FC-31 Stealth Fighter: News & Discussions

[Deino]

Preparing for Paris 2017: But why again the same completely wrong model of 31001 !??

 

[Beast]

Preparing for Paris 2017: But why again the same completely wrong model of 31001 !??

View attachment 404554

Why you get so work up over a model?

They are just for public display.

 

[Deino]

Why you get so work up over a model?

They are just for public display.

If You don't care of or on details it explains a lot !

Anyway IMO if SAC/AVIC want to sell that bird to foreign customers and even more if they will be taken seriously by the foreign media and potential customers they should at least care about being correct. That does not mean it has to be a 1 on 1 replica showing all details but do You think anyone would buy an €Fighter when the Paris Airshow model would look like this !??

Even if surely not the most important thing, since real performance is more important, but since SAC/AVIC has no real bird to show - as such no performance to demonstrate - they need to do a better marketing. That's the way the West works. (not that I like this)

 

[grey boy 2]

During the Paris Air Show, Li Yuhai, AVIC's deputy general manager in charge of military aircraft saying FC-31 "level of Stealthy, high agility, supersonic cruise capability, although it is still a pre-research product but the technical maturity has been high. Whether it is stand-alone costs, or full life costs that no other similar class of competitors can match

http://weibo.com/1499104401/F8GdrE4...4401_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment

 

[WarFariX]

During the Paris Air Show, Li Yuhai, AVIC's deputy general manager in charge of military aircraft saying FC-31 "level of Stealthy, high agility, supersonic cruise capability, although it is still a pre-research product but the technical maturity has been high. Whether it is stand-alone costs, or full life costs that no other similar class of competitors can match

http://weibo.com/1499104401/F8GdrE4...4401_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment

@Deino here v2 model is displayed :-/

 

[Beast]

If You don't care of or on details it explains a lot !

Anyway IMO if SAC/AVIC want to sell that bird to foreign customers and even more if they will be taken seriously by the foreign media and potential customers they should at least care about being correct. That does not mean it has to be a 1 on 1 replica showing all details but do You think anyone would buy an €Fighter when the Paris Airshow model would look like this !??

Even if surely not the most important thing, since real performance is more important, but since SAC/AVIC has no real bird to show - as such no performance to demonstrate - they need to do a better marketing. That's the way the West works. (not that I like this)

View attachment 404628

It does not mean anything.. Will a less accurate model during airshow mean the final product is less than satisfactory? Will a less accurate model mean the designer and technician behind the project more slag and less committed? A model is just a toy and presentation for public. It just trying to give a rough guide and nothing else. As I say China is more concern about one to one explanation and a more personal marketing rather than toy selling. Nothing will change the way China conduct military business. China will always bring the most value and affordable defense product to customers. End of the day, that is only your personal opinion. We are talking about defense and not model making.

Will a more accurate model means the designer and technician behind the project will never slag and flawless product? Model display has little bearing in the final say of those chief of defense decision. In fact what the product representative speaks and convey to the defense chief is far more important than accurate model.

 

[Deino]

@Deino here v2 model is displayed :-/

Not really ... and even less the alleged V3.
BY the way, that link is dead.

It does not mean anything.. Will a less accurate model during airshow mean the final product is less than satisfactory? Will a less accurate model mean the designer and technician behind the project more slag and less committed? A model is just a toy and presentation for public. It just trying to give a rough guide and nothing else. As I say China is more concern about one to one explanation and a more personal marketing rather than toy selling. Nothing will change the way China conduct military business. China will always bring the most value and affordable defense product to customers. End of the day, that is only your personal opinion. We are talking about defense and not model making.

Will a more accurate model means the designer and technician behind the project will never slag and flawless product? Model display has little bearing in the final say of those chief of defense decision. In fact what the product representative speaks and convey to the defense chief is far more important than accurate model.

Agreed and not agreed ! Indeed it does not mean anything but also everything: Surely a less accurate model will have no connection to the true qualities and performances of the real bird but I contradict Your statement "A model is just a toy and presentation for public". Quite to the contrary: a model at an international sales show - and that's all Paris is and all SAC/AVIC needs - SALES ! - it is the ticket to sales.

You cannot try to play this game on the international scene by not playing by its rules. And even if You maybe - like me - do not like to accept it: advertisement & publicity is the key to get attention.

So even if I agree with You in general, what will anyone think if he sees this "less accurate" (IMO still a compliment) model? It's a lousy PR-stunt, bad publicity and tells all public visitors this company is taking its efforts to sell that type not seriously. Therefore You and many others here can't complain that the image in the West of Chinese products is low.

I have to admit that it is a strange, wrong and maybe even shameful Western habit - the current US president plays this game quite well - that opinion, feelings and imagination is more worth than facts and performance ... but it is so. and if SAC/ AVIC wants to play that game they need to take care of these rules.

But again just my 2 cents.
Deino

 

[Beast]

Not really ... and even less the alleged V3.




Agreed and not agreed ! Indeed it does not mean anything but also everything: Surely a less accurate model will have no connection to the true qualities and performances of the real bird but I contradict Your statement "A model is just a toy and presentation for public". Quite to the contrary: a model at an international sales show - and that's all Paris is and all SAC/AVIC needs - SALES ! - it is the ticket to sales.

You cannot try to play this game on the international scene by not playing by its rules. And even if You maybe - like me - do not like to accept it: advertisement & publicity is the key to get attention.

So even if I agree with You in general, what will anyone think if he sees this "less accurate" (IMO still a compliment) model? It's a lousy PR-stunt, bad publicity and tells all public visitors this company is taking its efforts to sell that type not seriously. Therefore You and many others here can't complain that the image in the West of Chinese products is low.

I have to admit that it is a strange, wrong and maybe even shameful Western habit - the current US president plays this game quite well - that opinion, feelings and imagination is more worth than facts and performance ... but it is so. and if SAC/ AVIC wants to play that game they need to take care of these rules.

But again just my 2 cents.
Deino

What rules? The rules are just an opinion set by you. It just like saying democracy is the only solution for PRC which has proven many wrongs for decades until now.

I agree the airshow is a place for publicity. But China has different view on selling product in airshow. I seriously disagree a more accurate model is one of the criteria. I fully agree a very professional speech introduction for product is one of the key and I am sure AVIC is very well prepare in this area in disclosing and introducing the product timeline and capabilities through their professional representative.

I dont see AVIC has alot of problem selling their products. In fact , many of their sales are undisclosed but that does not deter their sales. For example , AVIC UCAV are sold to more than a dozen countries and I dont see they have any stumbling block becos of a less accurate model or whatever.

 

[Deino]

You simply always WANT to disagree only to DISAGREE, don't You.

Maybe You missed it again I already noted, it is only an opinion in the West and I also noted that I don't like this concept. Therefore You can again try to bash me as much as You want; I agree with You.

Point is simply: I try to give You an explanation, why the West still rates Chinese products so low and this is a reason and if You think the current sales of Chinese products to in the majority low-level third world countries (Myanmar, Sudan, Nigeria, ...) is fine for You, then it's fine. I however - especially as a sales-director of AVIC - would not be satisfied with this unless I get a breakthrough with a major player.

So I neither like this rule nor do I play in that liga ... but then do not always complain.

 

[Beast]

You simply always WANT to disagree only to DISAGREE, don't You.

Maybe You missed it again I already noted, it is only an opinion in the West and I also noted that I don't like this concept. Therefore You can again try to bash me as much as You want; I agree with You.

Point is simply: I try to give You an explanation, why the West still rates Chinese products so low and this is a reason and if You think the current sales of Chinese products to in the majority low-level third world countries (Myanmar, Sudan, Nigeria, ...) is fine for You, then it's fine. I however - especially as a sales-director of AVIC - would not be satisfied with this unless I get a breakthrough with a major player.

So I neither like this rule nor do I play in that liga ... but then do not always complain.

China missing the boat of defense sales to western or higher tier countries has nothing to do with quality or marketing but more to politic. Do I need to remind you of this? You mean NATO countries are able to buy freely of any countries of highly datalink network weapon like AWACS or air defense system? You think Germany can buy China weapon? You last point of trying to misled reader of China failing to get a major buyer of rich countries due to bad marketing, quality and sophistication are simply a joke.


What is wrong with China for securing customer like Myanmar and Nigeria? Are you prejudice or simply look down on these countries?

 

[Deino]

Arguing with You is plain impossible ! Dude, ... I agree with You. So no need to feel offended, no need for twisting words and even more no need for bashing back.

We really need an ignorer-function in this forum.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Arguing with You is plain impossible ! Dude, ... I agree with You. So no need to feel offended, no need for twisting words and even more no need for bashing back.

We really need an ignorer-function in this forum.

Don't worry he does it in every thread when it come to that... and most of time he resorts to insults... ( and by the power of God... he's till around with his -22... But maybe his 2011is goodluck charm or...)

 

[Beast]

Arguing with You is plain impossible ! Dude, ... I agree with You. So no need to feel offended, no need for twisting words and even more no need for bashing back.

We really need an ignorer-function in this forum.

Please argue point to point Instead of personal attack. I guess a moderator shall be better? Did I say anything wrong of by challenging a NATO countries can freely buy non NATO weapon to try Intergrate into their system? Does it prove this has anything to do with quality,marketing and quality?

Looks like you run out of arguement and try to divert from your inability by posting non relevant answer.

 

[Deino]

Please argue point to point Instead of personal attack. I guess a moderator shall be better? Did I say anything wrong of by challenging a NATO countries can freely buy non NATO weapon to try Intergrate into their system? Does it prove this has anything to do with quality,marketing and quality?

Looks like you run out of arguement and try to divert from your inability by posting non relevant answer.

NATO or non-NATO is not even an argument in that discussion and once again You try to divert this topic ... The problem is only, if I make a list of arguments and answer one by another it will be more than one argument that was already too much for You to understand if I remind You on the Y-20/WS-18-discussion yesterday.

 

[grey boy 2]

Not really ... and even less the alleged V3.
BY the way, that link is dead.

Its working fine for me, there's a video attached there
http://weibo.com/1499104401/F8GdrE4...4401_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment