SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[MastanKhan]

Any insight from your end as to what Project Azm involves? FC-31 or a clean-sheet design?

Hi,

It would really be a surprise if it is not the FC31---. A new item is a 15 plus years project---.

FC31 is within 5 years time period---.

 

[monitor]

Hi,

It would really be a surprise if it is not the FC31---. A new item is a 15 plus years project---.

FC31 is within 5 years time period---.

What's your opinion Pakistan should wait 15 years for her own baby or customized FC-31 as per PAF requirment and induct a fifth generation fighter within 5_6 years.

 

[MastanKhan]

What's your opinion Pakistan should wait 15 years for her own baby or customized FC-31 as per PAF requirment and induct a fifth generation fighter within 5_6 years.

Hi,

The only requirement for a weapon of death and destruction is that it is potent---.

There is no such thing as " own " baby anymore---.

This is the day and age and time of " Joint Ventures ".

Those who succeed---if you look at their overall results---you will find that they had better " team work "---" work load was well distributed and SHARED "---.

Sharing is the shortest road to " SUCCESS".

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hi,

It would really be a surprise if it is not the FC31---. A new item is a 15 plus years project---.

FC31 is within 5 years time period---.

Let's put the 5th-gen stuff aside and look at the FC-31 for it actually offers: 8,000 kg payload, twin engine, 2,000 kg concealable, apparent ability for low-level penetration flight, AESA radar and integrated EOTS. If that alone is available and fully usable from 2023, then I'd be surprised if the PAF would skip that in favour of the Mirage ROSE and Mirage 5PA in the strike and maritime operations role, respectively.

Just imagine the idea of equipping 2 Ra'ad II ALCM or 2 AShM in the internal bay and then super-cruising at low-altitude to launch points over land or sea, then firing, and then being gone by the time the adversary tries intercepting your munitions.

Even if one wants to develop a separate FGF, fine, but it'd be wildly curious to keep flying the Mirage ROSE and -5PA when you could have the FC-31, even as a bridge or interim fighter until the PAC FGF comes online.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

On a side note.
Your premium is a good step but I think u r too straighforward with the fee. If you make it something like $x.99 thats better cuz its a psychological thing. People think it costs less with .99
(I really wanted to PM you but I dnt knw how )

Let's put the 5th-gen stuff aside and look at the FC-31 for it actually offers: 8,000 kg payload, twin engine, 2,000 kg concealable, apparent ability for low-level penetration flight, AESA radar and integrated EOTS. If that alone is available and fully usable from 2023, then I'd be surprised if the PAF would skip that in favour of the Mirage ROSE and Mirage 5PA in the strike and maritime operations role, respectively.

Just imagine the idea of equipping 2 Ra'ad II ALCM or 2 AShM in the internal bay and then super-cruising at low-altitude to launch points over land or sea, then firing, and then being gone by the time the adversary tries intercepting your munitions.

Even if one wants to develop a separate FGF, fine, but it'd be wildly curious to keep flying the Mirage ROSE and -5PA when you could have the FC-31, even as a bridge or interim fighter until the PAC FGF comes online.

 

[MastanKhan]

Let's put the 5th-gen stuff aside and look at the FC-31 for it actually offers: 8,000 kg payload, twin engine, 2,000 kg concealable, apparent ability for low-level penetration flight, AESA radar and integrated EOTS. If that alone is available and fully usable from 2023, then I'd be surprised if the PAF would skip that in favour of the Mirage ROSE and Mirage 5PA in the strike and maritime operations role, respectively.

Just imagine the idea of equipping 2 Ra'ad II ALCM or 2 AShM in the internal bay and then super-cruising at low-altitude to launch points over land or sea, then firing, and then being gone by the time the adversary tries intercepting your munitions.

Even if one wants to develop a separate FGF, fine, but it'd be wildly curious to keep flying the Mirage ROSE and -5PA when you could have the FC-31, even as a bridge or interim fighter until the PAC FGF comes online.

Hi,

I believe that the FC31 is going to be be a lot more advanced than a lots of people are thinking---.

 

[Trango Towers]

Hi,

I believe that the FC31 is going to be be a lot more advanced than a lots of people are thinking---.

For once I agree. The negative aspect is people perception of made in China. Yet China has advanced significantly

 

[fasiiih]

Let's put the 5th-gen stuff aside and look at the FC-31 for it actually offers: 8,000 kg payload, twin engine, 2,000 kg concealable, apparent ability for low-level penetration flight, AESA radar and integrated EOTS. If that alone is available and fully usable from 2023, then I'd be surprised if the PAF would skip that in favour of the Mirage ROSE and Mirage 5PA in the strike and maritime operations role, respectively.

Just imagine the idea of equipping 2 Ra'ad II ALCM or 2 AShM in the internal bay and then super-cruising at low-altitude to launch points over land or sea, then firing, and then being gone by the time the adversary tries intercepting your munitions.

Even if one wants to develop a separate FGF, fine, but it'd be wildly curious to keep flying the Mirage ROSE and -5PA when you could have the FC-31, even as a bridge or interim fighter until the PAC FGF comes online.

Also add engine commonality between JF-17 & FC-31 to this list, simplyfying logistics & maintenance.

 

[Trango Towers]

Also add engine commonality between JF-17 & FC-31 to this list, simplyfying logistics & maintenance.

But the smoke issue on the engine has to be fixed going forward with overhaul and maintenance to be done in Pakistan

 

[Clutch]

But the smoke issue on the engine has to be fixed going forward with overhaul and maintenance to be done in Pakistan

Smoke is the least of the issue...

The range of the aircraft abysmal... just 770 miles is less than half of most Aircrafts out there 5th Gen.

 

[Khadim e Darul Ehsaan]

Smoke is the least of the issue...

The range of the aircraft abysmal... just 770 miles is less than half of most Aircrafts out there 5th Gen.

I read somewhere about naval variant probably bigger in size , may be it can carries more internal fuel ???
R thy making any naval variant ???

 

[messiach]

View attachment 442226

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Blue Marlin Several member has asked the same Q, I am not with chengdu now, this process has been under various stages of discussions since 2005. I have looked at different LiftC vs AoA analysis for three different models, so lets see which is accepted.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Blue Marlin Several member has asked the same Q, I am not with chengdu now, this process has been under various stages of discussions since 2005. I have looked at different LiftC vs AoA analysis for three different models, so lets see which is accepted.

The PAC Chairman had also called on the private sector to invest in domestic gas turbine and engine development work in 2016 (link). We (in the public) will have to wait and see how much of that figures in the FGF and/or UAV, but it's not a coincidence that ACM Sohail Aman has overtly been emphasizing indigenization. In previous years, the PAF CAS have been forthright in mentioning China as a supplier, but I think the idea is now shifting to partner (e.g. similar to UK-US efforts) and building the domestic industry.

He stressed the need for exploring possibilities of collaboration in the defence industry and identified four areas as a way forward for the private sector in the defence-related aviation sector — upgrade of PAC Kamra for manufacturing of auto parts, commercial engines and industrial gas turbines and calibration of equipment.

 

[Akasa]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Blue Marlin Several member has asked the same Q, I am not with chengdu now, this process has been under various stages of discussions since 2005. I have looked at different LiftC vs AoA analysis for three different models, so lets see which is accepted.

Are all 3 models from the same institute or country? Or is it like another CAC vs SAC competition?

 

[messiach]

Same institute. Which country, for that you should wait.

Are all 3 models from the same institute or country? Or is it like another CAC vs SAC competition?

This is not a separate project. It should be considered as an arm and extension.

The PAC Chairman had also called on the private sector to invest in domestic gas turbine and engine development work in 2016 (link). We (in the public) will have to wait and see how much of that figures in the FGF and/or UAV, but it's not a coincidence that ACM Sohail Aman has overtly been emphasizing indigenization. In previous years, the PAF CAS have been forthright in mentioning China as a supplier, but I think the idea is now shifting to partner (e.g. similar to UK-US efforts) and building the domestic industry.

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