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SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

Isn't J-35 carrier based version of J-31?
J-31 was an exported project started by SAC itself but later won the heart of PLAN, but everything has upgraded aligned with PLAN's requirement.
btw it is no longer a second tier fifth gen fighter after J-20 that people once thought, in fact, J-35 has been using tech that J20 doesn't have according to some insider.
 
J-31 was an exported project started by SAC itself but later won the heart of PLAN, but everything has upgraded aligned with PLAN's requirement.
btw it is no longer a second tier fifth gen fighter after J-20 that people once thought, in fact, J-35 has been using tech that J20 doesn't have according to some insider.


Indeed ... and since it is now a high priority PLAN project - in fact I'm quite sure it always was fully supported but delayed due to other reasons and as such "labelled an export type" - it lost this export necessary. So I'm sure, any future customer has to wait until it is mature and in service in numbers in PLAN service ...
 
Indeed ... and since it is now a high priority PLAN project - in fact I'm quite sure it always was fully supported but delayed due to other reasons and as such "labelled an export type" - it lost this export necessary. So I'm sure, any future customer has to wait until it is mature and in service in numbers in PLAN service ...
Deino.
Iam looking at it slightly differently. I think it did not have support initially. So they went out seeking it in the guise of an export only version. They did not get any joy. Now that the PLAN has shown interest the history is being changed to "we always had support. It just got delayed". The sceptic in me sees a bit of spin doctoring. However, I fully agree that it is a more beautiful plane than the J20. Its size might make it more appealing to many buyers and it will find interest from buyers once it is fully developed.
By the by do you have any inklings on this 3rd design that is based on J20 being offered for export to PAF. Help appreciated.
A
 
Disagree, they did not even come close to conflict. All Russia did was deliver S-300 to Syria which it doesn't even allow to be used against Israeli aircraft. Since then the heads of the Israeli state have repeatedly visited Russia to cooperate on "regional issues."


Well that's too bad them because Russia is definitely not selling anything, and it's not for a lack of interest on Iran's part.


Like I said, the J-31 is the ONLY option Iran has for a good 5th generation fighter.
Would China really compromise Pakistan's national security by selling more advanced weapons to Iran than Pakistan has?

From what China has said in the past, Pakistan is to China what Israel is to the USA.
 
Isn't J-35 carrier based version of J-31?

As far as I know they have not approached China for any aircraft, rather as you said they keep going to Russia fruitlessly.
Nope, there's no J-31, only FC-31 as factory code of Shenyang AC or J-35 as military code. It's like FC-1, Super 7, these are factory codes, and became JF-17 when inducted by PAF.

Shenyang FC-31 (or J-35 after acceptance by PLAN) should be a CATOBAR-based project from day one. But of course testbeds and prototypes started flying from land-based air strips, not from any CATOBAR which is still under construction. There's no land-based variant up till this moment (PLAAF is heavy on J-10, no urgent need for another MMRCA), I guess we have to wait till J-35 gets IOC/FOC with PLAN and see how it goes.
 
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Would China really compromise Pakistan's national security by selling more advanced weapons to Iran than Pakistan has?

From what China has said in the past, Pakistan is to China what Israel is to the USA.
nobody is selling Iran anything.

China can get what it wants from Iran for a lot less than exporting FC-31.
 
The J-35 once cleared for export, maybe an ideal platform for a new dedicated Air arm (long range fighters) of the Pakistan Navy.

India is looking to buy mistral class LHD, so building up the Pakistan Marines and a dedicated naval air arm should be prioritized.

In peacetime they can protect the SLOCs and guard the patrol aircraft in the EEZ and beyond.
 
nobody is selling Iran anything.

China can get what it wants from Iran for a lot less than exporting FC-31.
That's exactly what I thought. Still, best to make sure I'm not wrong.
 
Would China really compromise Pakistan's national security by selling more advanced weapons to Iran than Pakistan has?

From what China has said in the past, Pakistan is to China what Israel is to the USA.
Pakistan will almost certainly get J-35 so they wouldn't be getting something more advanced.

Also conflict between Iran and Pakistan is very unlikely despite some attitudes on this forum.
 
There aren't 150 in service right now. Probably 100 based on recent counting of serial numbers and units we know about. My guess the current production rate is around a 40 a year and on the way to 50 a year. This might go up higher in the coming years, but they will need to keep optimizing and improving production line.

It's a huge deal to be able to produce J-20 this quickly already.

All this is paper talk. F-22 has 50% availability rate. It could not even fly off the ground when a big hurricane struck one of its based in NC and ended up damaging a whole bunch of them. And it's only getting most costly to maintain and less available as we step further away from its production ending date. The USAF decision to stop F-22 production is turning out to be a a huge disaster.

We'd have to see what J-31 looks like to get a better understanding of its stealth and overall capabilities. It looks to be the best approximation of F-35 you can find with the exception of having 2 engines instead of 1. The T/W ratios are about the same. The configurations are very similar. Based on the prototypes, J-31 production quality looks close to J-20 and F-22 and below that of F-35. Stealth wise, it looks very similar to F-35 in shaping from front and sides. It definitely has more issue in the rear compared to F-35, although F-35 is also less stealthy from rear than F-22. Unless they can fix the rear and improve production quality, I would expect J-31 to be less stealthy than F-35, but still very stealthy from most angles. In terms of electronics, it should be very well designed to use passive and LPI active sensors like J-20 and F-35. So from most aspect, it's competitive with F-35, but theoretically worse in stealth. Depending on what J-31 is fighting with, that may or may not overcome those differences.

Keep in mind that J-31 should still eat 4th gen aircraft for lunch. There is a huge gap between aircraft with high level of stealth and modern situation awareness/networking vs those that don't. So in a battlefield, things like numbers, availability, endurance, cap time and supporting aircraft will matter a lot. J-31 does not need to take down too many F-35s to be victorious. It just needs to out last F-35s and take out a good chunk of non-stealthy aircraft like tankers, AWACs and 4th generation aircraft. It's far easier to take out F-35 when they return to their flight deck of air base for maintenance rather than taking them out while they are still flying. So when certain people say that J-20 or J-31 aren't as stealthy/capable as F-35, that really completely over looks other aircraft in the theater. 5th generation aircraft are larger threats to other aircraft than they are too each other.

For PAF, the best case scenario is if IAF ends up purchasing Su-57 as its "5th generation" aircraft. The worst case scenario is if IAF ends up purchasing F-35. With the former, PAF will have a pretty large qualitative advantage. With the latter, PAF will need a little more help from PLAAF in ways to counter.

By the way, land version of FC-31 will never be available for a while. I'm guessing at least 5 more years before land version of FC-31 join service, so earliest export will probably be in 2029 to 2030 range.
Nice analysis, it is fair without any bias. I think you deserve PDF think tank position.
 
Pakistan will almost certainly get J-35 so they wouldn't be getting something more advanced.

Also conflict between Iran and Pakistan is very unlikely despite some attitudes on this forum.
If Pakistan operates the J-35 in the future, especially, for the Navy, it would make interoperability with and maintenance for the PLAN carrier borne J-35, assigned to patrols in the Indian Ocean, easier. China may not be willing to put up a J-35 maintenance facility in Djibouti, but one in Pakistan would be more secure and subsidized by PAF’s own operations.
 
Hi as expected j31/35 whatever designation it will be carrying this has to be operational or in service for PLANAF
when and where EMALS will be online with the Chinese navy accordingly
as most of the Pakistani members should know PAF or PN doesn’t have the opportunity or budget to shape this plane accordingly to their need (as happened with J10c) so by virtue of timeline and when is it possible for China to bring this aircraft to there desire Pakistan navy or airforce will also have the chance to get this aircraft accordingly
another factor is if Indians going for F35 soon hope not
then PAF will be looking for it asap
thank you
 
Deino.
Iam looking at it slightly differently. I think it did not have support initially. So they went out seeking it in the guise of an export only version. They did not get any joy. Now that the PLAN has shown interest the history is being changed to "we always had support. It just got delayed". The sceptic in me sees a bit of spin doctoring. However, I fully agree that it is a more beautiful plane than the J20. Its size might make it more appealing to many buyers and it will find interest from buyers once it is fully developed.
By the by do you have any inklings on this 3rd design that is based on J20 being offered for export to PAF. Help appreciated.
A
Really is there any 3rd design then J20 and j31 for 5th gen ?
 
Really is there any 3rd design then J20 and j31 for 5th gen ?
There has been chatter that the PLAAF has shown the PAF a third design of a stealth plane. What this design is and how it looks is anybody's guess.
A
 
There has been chatter that the PLAAF has shown the PAF a third design of a stealth plane. What this design is and how it looks is anybody's guess.
A
Ok mean possible option for AZM !, But now PAF selected TAI for JV instead of Chinese
 

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