SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[Falcon26]

Hi,

J-31 is not an underdeveloped fraud project---.

Pakistan's project director AVM r Shahid Latif stated in his interview that if the americans saw any copies of F16 on the JF17---he would pay dearly for that---.

AVM Latif was a top tier F16 fighter pilot---. The compromises made on the JF17 was for that reason---it would have beeen a true copy of the F16 other than the intake on the belly---.

Similarly with the J31---there is no doubt that the chinese stole all the designs of the F35---but when it came to building a true copy---the threat from the US was very obvious---"make a true copy at your peril"----. The consequences were too high for china---.

Now---could pakistan build a true physical copy of F35---absolutely---maybe not as capable---but they will---that is why project AZM---.

The J31 may definitley not be as capable as the F35---but it would still be ahead of most of the 4.5 gen aircraft


Hi,

Readers should rest assured that if Paf goes for the J31---it will get all those bumps and curves that are needed for stealth---.

If PAF’s objective was to build an F-16 copy, it would have settled for the J-10 which in essence is the Israeli Lavi- a copy of the F-16. But PAF did not and even today isn’t interested in the J-10. People, especially you, have criticized PAF’s procurement strategy but the events of Feb 27th have vindicated PAF’s strategic thinking. Simply buying expensive and flashy equipment won’t cut it. Procured assets have to serve tactical & strategic purpose. JF-17 and F-16 datelines with Falcon-20 & Erieyes neutralized IAF entire fleet and compelled the much vaunted SU-30MKI to run for dear life (even by Indian admission)

We need to give credit where credit is due

 

[MastanKhan]

If PAF’s objective was to build an F-16 copy, it would have settled for the J-10 which in essence is the Israeli Lavi- a copy of the F-16. But PAF did not and even today isn’t interested in the J-10. People, especially you, have criticized PAF’s procurement strategy but the events of Feb 27th have vindicated PAF’s strategic thinking. Simply buying expensive and flashy equipment won’t cut it. Procured assets have to serve tactical & strategic purpose. JF-17 and F-16 datelines with Falcon-20 & Erieyes neutralized IAF entire fleet and compelled the much vaunted SU-30MKI to run for dear life (even by Indian admission)

We need to give credit where credit is due

Hi,

Paf does not like those winglets on the J10.

The reason for not going for the J10 was nt technical but rathe for the reason that an army general wanted to force it upon them---ie Gen Mush---& when people found out that the J10 is superior to JF17---the goose that laid the golden egg ( JF17 ) would die---.

The F16 / JF17 didn't neuter the whole fleet---the Paf gave away its secrets for a minor circumstantial show off gain---the price it would pay for the security of pakistan's skies would be very heavy---.

 

[Falcon26]

Hi,

Paf does not like those winglets on the J10.

The reason for not going for the J10 was nt technical but rathe for the reason that an army general wanted to force it upon them---ie Gen Mush---& when people found out that the J10 is superior to JF17---the goose that laid the golden egg ( JF17 ) would die---.

The F16 / JF17 didn't neuter the whole fleet---the Paf gave away its secrets for a minor circumstantial show off gain---the price it would pay for the security of pakistan's skies would be very heavy---.

You are not an objective critic of the PAF, and so you shouldn’t try to pass off your judgements as some sort of honest critique. Your problem with the PAF is very personal and while we are in no position to tell you what and how you think of the PAF (or any organization, for that matter) it’s important to understand that your opinions aren’t based on any facts. In fact, you should preface your posts with the disclaimer that your opinions are based on personal history/grudge against the PAF.

The PAF hit India hard and comprehensively and sent them a very strong message to the point that the leadership in New Delhi quickly and dramatically came to the realization that its Air Force wasn’t up to the task to face Pakistan; hence the missile threats which were ultimately found to be suicidal. The job of any Air Force is to act as a deterrence against aggression. It’s not in the business to send calibrated posturing. At any rate, Pakistan’s military leadership even before PAF’s retaliation stated clearly that Pakistan was going to dominate the escalation ladder. The PAF acted with this overarching reality in mind. Everyone understood that PAF/Pakistan was going to come down hard on India. There was no question of subtle retaliation and the PAF did so in a remarkable and an unambiguous manner. Its neutralization of the much better funded and larger IAF was admitted even by Pakistan’s most staunch haters and critics.

It’s these sorts of bold and fatal blows that prevent future wars. Not the silly hide and seek games you suggest. If India revises its tactics as a result of the feb 27th skirmishes, you can be rest assured that PAF won’t be sitting idle. But you are free to project your personal grudges.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Paf does not like those winglets on the J10.

What you talking about, J-10 has a winglets, do you know what are the winglets are @MastanKhan

 

[Keysersoze]

The F16 / JF17 didn't neuter the whole fleet---the Paf gave away its secrets for a minor circumstantial show off gain---the price it would pay for the security of pakistan's skies would be very heavy---.

Actually no They have given the enemy pause. What they thought was a walkover backfired. Now they are bleating about Rafales being needed. That has given a few years breathing room for the PAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

Actually no They have given the enemy pause. What they thought was a walkover backfired. Now they are bleating about Rafales being needed. That has given a few years breathing room for the PAF.

Hi,

That is incorrect---. They---paf---have given the enemies their secrets---.

They have also opened the door for india to get what was not available before---.

Now indian air force may become the test ground for some seriously capable weapons of some sellers

 

[Keysersoze]

Hi,

That is incorrect---. They---paf---have given the enemies their secrets---.

They have also opened the door for india to get what was not available before---.

Now indian air force may become the test ground for some seriously capable weapons of some sellers

I suggest you read these thoughts of yours out aloud before typing.

Should they have done nothing so secrets would be kept? That's frankly stupid.

A weapon unused is a useless weapon. Tactics evolve and change regularly. The IAF has always been a test ground for serious sellers I mean they have been courted for a decade around the MRCA deal before economic realities hit.

Now they won't try any "surgical strikes" without remembering their pilot getting a shoe in the face.

 

[MastanKhan]

I suggest you read these thoughts of yours out aloud before typing.

Should they have done nothing so secrets would be kept? That's frankly stupid.

A weapon unused is a useless weapon. Tactics evolve and change regularly. The IAF has always been a test ground for serious sellers I mean they have been courted for a decade around the MRCA deal before economic realities hit.

Now they won't try any "surgical strikes" without remembering their pilot getting a shoe in the face.

Hi,

Thy should have been prepared to counter the enemy the first night of incursion---.

The enemy had already announced its intention of invasion---.

Paf goes ahead makes the strike on the 27th---but then it does an incomplete job---of letting multiple enemy aircraft escape---even though it had prepared for the strike---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

Thy should have been prepared to counter the enemy the first night of incursion---.

The enemy had already announced its intention of invasion---.

Paf goes ahead makes the strike on the 27th---but then it does an incomplete job---of letting multiple enemy aircraft escape---even though it had prepared for the strike---.

So you are suggesting that after the PAF let the IAF fighters get away scot-free after their botched bombing run, we should not have retaliated as to keep our capabilities hidden?

Can you use your expertise to tell us the repercussions of not doing anything would have been?

 

[MastanKhan]

So you are suggesting that after the PAF let the IAF fighters get away scot-free after their botched bombing run, we should not have retaliated as to keep our capabilities hidden?

Can you use your expertise to tell us the repercussions of not doing anything would have been?

Hi,

What I stated was that Paf was not ready to take on the enemy---even though the enemy had declared intent of war---.

The areas of incursion were known in advance---yet Paf was satisfied with a late reaction to just shoo them off so no confrontation takes place---.

In the day & date of modern weapons---Paf's mindset was still of 50 years old---. Nowadays enemy air strike force can decimate targets in pakistan from a range of over 100 miles---so that becomes the threat zone and not the LOC---and that is when the enemy has already declared an " intent of war ".

If there is " no intent of war " declared---then normal boundary lines are fine---but when " military action " is declared---then any enemy aircraft taking off from their fields and coming towards you are bringing a threat of war to you---and then you must do what the Israelis do---.

The issue over here is when the decision was made to go in on the 27th on our terms and condition---then all enemy aircraft targetted should have been decimated with asking FOR SECONDARY permission from HQ---.

That permission should have been granted in advance---knowing very well that we will expose our technical & tactical assets---so our strike shouLD be the STRIKE OF THE HAMMER OF THOR.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

What I stated was that Paf was not ready to take on the enemy---even though the enemy had declared intent of war---.

The areas of incursion were known in advance---yet Paf was satisfied with a late reaction to just shoo them off so no confrontation takes place---.

In the day & date of modern weapons---Paf's mindset was still of 50 years old---. Nowadays enemy air strike force can decimate targets in pakistan from a range of over 100 miles---so that becomes the threat zone and not the LOC---and that is when the enemy has already declared an " intent of war ".

If there is " no intent of war " declared---then normal boundary lines are fine---but when " military action " is declared---then any enemy aircraft taking off from their fields and coming towards you are bringing a threat of war to you---and then you must do what the Israelis do---.

The issue over here is when the decision was made to go in on the 27th on our terms and condition---then all enemy aircraft targetted should have been decimated with asking FOR SECONDARY permission from HQ---.

That permission should have been granted in advance---knowing very well that we will expose our technical & tactical assets---so our strike shouLD be the STRIKE OF THE HAMMER OF THOR.

I am not going to argue regarding what they should have done to pre-empt the IAF strike in the first place or to shoot the intruding aircraft.

I am actually asking about your assertion that PAF disclosed their tactics somehow to IAF in their response to their strikes in KPK. You have raised this point multiple times and that is what I want to understand from your point of view about these secret capabilities that PAF has.

How would, PAF having decimated their ground targets, in anyways preclude IAF from knowing about whatever tactics we used vs not destroying their ground targets and just send a message.

And the second part of my question relates to above on the repercussions side. Can you tell me what those would have been (keeping in mind the sole purpose of this is not divulging our secret tactics to the enemy)? Would you go for no response post-Balakot (already a no from you), destroy all 4 targets (your favored response but still divulges all our tactics) or go in half-cocked and maybe lose a couple of aircraft since you didn't bring in any supporting elements to the fight?

Mind you, IAF has access to all technologies we do as well as training opportunities in Europe, Asia and America and they have actively participated in all these exercises that Pakistan has more or less to learn how to manage a battle space and employ your assets. If they didnt, it is by no means a lack of understanding but just incompetence of the leadership (which was let go) and that is not something PAF would bank on anyways. We would expect to prepare and train for an enemy just as capable, if not more, than us.

 

[MastanKhan]

I am not going to argue regarding what they should have done to pre-empt the IAF strike in the first place or to shoot the intruding aircraft.

I am actually asking about your assertion that PAF disclosed their tactics somehow to IAF in their response to their strikes in KPK. You have raised this point multiple times and that is what I want to understand from your point of view about these secret capabilities that PAF has.

How would, PAF having decimated their ground targets, in anyways preclude IAF from knowing about whatever tactics we used vs not destroying their ground targets and just send a message.

And the second part of my question relates to above on the repercussions side. Can you tell me what those would have been (keeping in mind the sole purpose of this is not divulging our secret tactics to the enemy)? Would you go for no response post-Balakot (already a no from you), destroy all 4 targets (your favored response but still divulges all our tactics) or go in half-cocked and maybe lose a couple of aircraft since you didn't bring in any supporting elements to the fight?

Mind you, IAF has access to all technologies we do as well as training opportunities in Europe, Asia and America and they have actively participated in all these exercises that Pakistan has more or less to learn how to manage a battle space and employ your assets. If they didnt, it is by no means a lack of understanding but just incompetence of the leadership (which was let go) and that is not something PAF would bank on anyways. We would expect to prepare and train for an enemy just as capable, if not more, than us.

Hi,

I am not talking about the ground assets---I was addressing the enemy air assets---. Thank you.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

I am not talking about the ground assets---I was addressing the enemy air assets---. Thank you.

Are you trying to skirt the issue? You have been raising a point on us giving away our tactics over and over again (A-A ones sure). I am asking you in very plain terms so there is no misunderstanding now, explain under what scenario would that not have happened post-Balakot strikes.

 

[MastanKhan]

Are you trying to skirt the issue? You have been raising a point on us giving away our tactics over and over again (A-A ones sure). I am asking you in very plain terms so there is no misunderstanding now, explain under what scenario would that not have happened post-Balakot strikes.

Hi,

I have already answered---. If you are not capable of understanding---and this is not the first time---then it is not my problem---.

I have very clearly stated my point---.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Mastan Khan where do you come up with these bizarre sequence of events. You claim to know everything but when someone questions you become like a spoiled little stubborn kid. I can’t help but ask you how old are you?
Do you even have a military knowledge or you just like to shit all over to piss people off. Just wondering .....