Russsian lease of Nuke subs to INDIA

[miroslav]

Russia to lease two nuke submarines to India: report

Moscow, Dec. 7 (PTI): India will get two 'Shchuka-B' class nuclear submarines from Russia on lease and an Indian crew has already arrived here for training as part of the aircraft-carrier Admiral Gorshkov deal, a media report said on Tuesday.

Two 'Shchuka-B', also known as Akula, are at different stages of construction since the collapse of Soviet Union and could be leased to India for ten years in estimated USD 1.8 billion deal after their simultaneous completion, Russian daily 'Kommersant' reported.

Due to slippage in the indigenous Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project for the development of S-2 nuclear submarine, India is leasing the two submarines as part of the package deal on the acquisition of Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, the daily said.

It said that about 200 Indian naval officers have arrived in Russia in October for a course at Russian nuclear submarine fleet's North-West training centre at Sosnovy Bor near St. Petersburg, the paper wrote.

India earlier had received Charlie class K-43 nuclear submarine from ex-Soviet Union, which was known as 'INS Chakra', on lease.

Kommersant wrote that at that time Indian crew did not have access to the reactor of INS Chakra, which was manned by Soviet naval personnel.

The daily also said that Moscow is helping India in designing the nuclear reactor for the ATV, which resembles Russian submarine of Project 09710 'Samara' class (NATO code name Akula-II).

Link

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Shchuka B-class [NATO name 'Akula'] Statistics

DIMENSIONS: 110.23 m by 13.6 m by 13.78 m

WEIGHT: 8,632 tons surfaced, 12,770 tons submerged.

POWER PLANT: 1 OK-650B pressurized water reactor, 190 Mw; 1 Type GT3A steam turbine. The Shchuka B can maintain a surface speed of 11.2 knots and a submerged speed of 33.3 knots.

HULL SYSTEMS: The Shchuka B-class [NATO name 'Akula'] submarine has a double-hulled configuration, consisting of a pressure hull and an outer hull. There are seven watertight compartments within the pressure hull. Maximum operational diving depth is 600 m.

WEAPONS: The Shchuka B is an attack submarine (SSN), but it is capable of carrying nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. Submarines of this class have four 650 mm torpedo tubes and four 533 mm torpedo tubes (the most recent versions of the Shchuka B have six tubes.) The 650 mm tubes can be fitted with liners to allow additional launch capability for 553 mm munitions. A submarine can carry up to 40 weapons.

LAND ATTACK CRUISE MISSILES

RK-55 Granat (SS-N-21, NATO name 'Sampson&#39 land attack cruise missiles.

The Granat has a 200 kt nuclear warhead. The missile is 8.09 m long, 0.77 m in diameter, weighs 1,700 kg, and has a range of 3,000 km. It is launched from 533 mm torpedo tubes and can be launched from a submerged submarine.

ANTISHIP MISSILES AND TORPEDOES

Type 86R and/or Type 88R(SS-N-16 NATO name 'Stallion&#39 antiship missiles and/or torpedoes.

Type 88R (SS-N-16) missiles are 6.7 m long, 0.53 m in diameter, and weigh 1,850 kg. The missile has two configurations used on submarines - Vodoley and Veter. Vodoley carries a 5 kt nuclear warhead. Veter carries a Type 40 torpedo. Type 88Rs have a range of 50 km. The missile is launched from a 650 mm torpedo tube and flies to its target using a solid-fuel booster.

http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/020218st.htm

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Indian Lease of Akula's

India’s interest in leasing a pair of Type 971 SSNs is based in part on the slow progress in the Advanced Technology Vessel. Reports are in conflict as to whether the submarines in question are the improved Akula or the Akula-II. There are a pair of both types in a state of partial completion.

As of November 2001 it was reported that the the terms of lease for a single Akula II/Schuka-B class nuclear-powered submarine had been finalized in September 2001. The submarine, to be leased for three years at a price of $25 million for it, was expected to arrive in Vishakapatnam in early 2002. However, as of February 2002 the Russian submarines were slated to begin service in the Indian Navy in 2004 under a five-year lease. India was to help finance the construction of the two new Akula class boats with the proceeds allowing Russia to complete the first Type 855 SSN. At that time no agreement had been reached on the transfer of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, the proposed lease of two Akulas, or the purchase of four Tu-22M Backfire bombers.

As of mid-2002 the Indian Ministry of Defence was saying little about a move to lease-purchase two Project 971 class nuclear submarines from Russia. But negotiations were reported to be at an advanced stage and India's commitment could include providing money to enable Russia to complete construction work on the subs. The subs in question were believed to be of the Project 971 improved Akula-II class.

On 20 January 2004 India finalized the purchase of the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov after over a decade of negotiations. But Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov and Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes did not reach agreement on other weapons, such as the Tu-22 Backfire bombers or Akula-class nuclear submarines.

By mid-2005 India appeared set to get at least two Akula class subs on lease — with the option to buy them— from Russia by end of 2005. The construction of a training center for the Indian defence officers in Sosnovy Bor, west of St Petersburg, confirmed Russia’s intentions to lease nuclear submarines to India. The international center started training 300 Indian Naval officers by mid-September 2005. This number suggested 4 Akula crews (2 on, 2 off duty rotations.) The leasing/buying of Akulas would train crews and augment force levels as the ATV goes into serial production.

The two Akulas, one said to be 70-85% complete and the other said to be 40-60% complete, would cost India some $400m. The leasing costs would amount to some $25m a year. The construction of both submarines and training of the crews could run up to around $2 billion. Meanwhile, this article confirms that a Russian Akula-I class submarine will participate in the Russia-India exercises this fall. 5. There are also rumors from reputable sources (this other defense reporter being the other most highly respected/accurate one) saying that the Indian indigenous submarine project ATV is almost ready, and was built with Russian help. My own gut feeling is the Akulas would likely be leased (not bought) until A total of 5-6 ATV submarines are projected to be constructed by 2020.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/971.htm

Also see the Specifications of Project 971 Shuka-B Bars-class

Thanks,

Miro

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Project 971 Shuka-B Bars-class in the Russian Navy Service

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Thanks,

Miro

 

[EagleEyes]

Is India also recieving Granat land attack nuclear tipped cruise missile with this submarine? The cruise missile has a range of 3000KM&#33;&#33;

I would say it is a great idea actually. India currently has one nuclear submarine already INS Chakra, the addition of two more nuclear submarines will give india a great advancement to counter Chinese navy threats.

The deal is of 1.8 Billion USDs how much does a nuclear submarine really cost if you buy it, and what are the conditions of leasing the submarines, can they be used in the war? (They should be.)

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by WebMaster@Dec 7 2005, 05:25 PM
Is India also recieving Granat land attack nuclear tipped cruise missile with this submarine? The cruise missile has a range of 3000KM&#33;&#33;

[post=4558]Quoted post[/post]​

I don&#39;t think so.

Till date no such reports have been heared by me.

But you never know.

I would say it is a great idea actually. India currently has one nuclear submarine already INS Chakra, the addition of two more nuclear submarines will give india a great advancement to counter Chinese navy threats.

No we don&#39;t have INS Chakra. It was a Charlie-I class submarine which was leased from Russia for 3 years between 1987 to 1990.

Also note the point that Indian crew was not allowed to access the reactor.

The deal is of 1.8 Billion USDs how much does a nuclear submarine really cost if you buy it, and

Both the subs are half built and we are leasing them for 10 years with option to buy the same.

The IN is waiting for the ATV. If it is successful and if we can replace these subs with few more ATV&#39;s then India might returrn it back but we never know what will happen in the time span of 10+ years.

what are the conditions of leasing the submarines, can they be used in the war? (They should be.)

Offcourse.

This time all the conditions are in favor of India.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[EagleEyes]

Miro just to let you know.

India earlier had received Charlie class K-43 nuclear submarine from ex-Soviet Union, which was known as &#39;INS Chakra&#39;, on lease.

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by WebMaster@Dec 19 2005, 10:18 AM
Miro just to let you know.

India earlier had received Charlie class K-43 nuclear submarine from ex-Soviet Union, which was known as &#39;INS Chakra&#39;, on lease.

[post=4578]Quoted post[/post]​

So when did I denied that????

Read my post carefully again

No we don&#39;t have INS Chakra. It was a Charlie-I class submarine which was leased from Russia for 3 years between 1987 to 1990.

Also note the point that Indian crew was not allowed to access the reactor.

It came against your following post.

India currently has one nuclear submarine already INS Chakra

You said India currently has.

I just corrected it and replied that we had.

Thnaks,

Miro

 

[EagleEyes]

Thanks mate, i didn&#39;t properly understand you.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

WOOH&#33;&#33; What is this&#33; Now india is to be getting 2 more nuclear submarines noo&#33; That is a rip off for Pakistani navy... not to mention if you look at these subs, agosta looks nothing against it.

 

[Saad]

Originally posted by mysterious@Dec 20 2005, 05:30 PM
WOOH&#33;&#33; What is this&#33; Now india is to be getting 2 more nuclear submarines noo&#33; That is a rip off for Pakistani navy... not to mention if you look at these subs, agosta looks nothing against it.

[post=4642]Quoted post[/post]​

Well thats not true, I heard some where that Agosta can be modified to be a nuclear sub or something like that.

 

[EagleEyes]

I heard the nuclear Agosta submarines have a letter C, whereas we dont have one. So yes we need a nuclear submarine rather relying on conventional submarines versus nuclear submarines.

 

[miroslav]

No offence but world is yet to see the nuke powered Agosta&#39;s.

Also not to forget the PN budget.

Akula&#39;s are known as the best attack nuke powered subs.

Even the USN is scared of them coz they are just hunter killers no SLBM or nuke missile shit.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[Jag]

Miro, any idea how this lease agreeement works? For example, if some mishap happens who is responsible, the user or the owner? understand handling of such is not taken for granted but accidents happen and if the equipment is use in war time and if lost, i suppose the whole price of the equipment is to be paid.

I suppose this things don&#39;t come with insurence.

Cheers

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Jag@Dec 22 2005, 07:28 AM
Miro, any idea how this lease agreeement works? For example, if some mishap happens who is responsible, the user or the owner?  understand handling of such is not taken for granted but accidents happen and if the equipment is use in war time and if lost, i suppose the whole price of the equipment is to be paid.

I suppose this things don&#39;t come with insurence.

Cheers

[post=4697]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah accidents happens and with Russian nuke subs it definately happenes.

I dont know much terms and conditions but few facts.

Both subs are made upto 70% and 50% respectively. Since Russia dont have money to complete the project they want Indian assistance.

India wants the naval men to get training on these subs for the desi ATV subs.

India is looking forward to lease these subs for 10 years with option to buy so by the time ATV picture will be clear. If the sub works then we can return the Russian subs and if now we can buy them.

Not to forget the first Pakistani submarine (PNS Ghazi) was leased from US.

Let&#39;s not talk more about Ghazi.

Miro