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Russia's Putin says NATO should stay in Afghanistan

putin-bear.jpg

Putin is always right

Best outcome is Afghanistan become Afghania province a legal part of Pakistan and Pakistan Army and Nuclear weapons protection
End from the none sense
 
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putin-bear.jpg

Putin is always right

Best outcome is Afghanistan become Afghania province a legal part of Pakistan and Pakistan Army and Nuclear weapons protection
End from the none sense
while looking for strategic depth you made pakistan itself a reverse strategic depth.The war that was limited to west of durand line has already crossed the indus long back.
 
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putin-bear.jpg

Putin is always right

Best outcome is Afghanistan become Afghania province a legal part of Pakistan and Pakistan Army and Nuclear weapons protection
End from the none sense

You have raised an interesting point and I know what you are talking about.

I believe Pakistan deserves to be rewarded for taking care of all those Afghanistani refugees for more than a whole generation (34 years).

Insh'Allah we will be rewarded for taking care of the Afghanistani refugees for a very long time.
 
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Putin is always right

Best outcome is Afghanistan become Afghania province a legal part of Pakistan and Pakistan Army and Nuclear weapons protection
End from the none sense

Hey “Top Gun”,

You've already tried that but ended up landing on your face. In the process, you've also awakened millions of Afghans into recognizing the nature of our sworn enemy. Back in the 1960's, our national leaders were disappointed to see the ease with which Pakistan was able to galvanize support from among rural Afghans to fight what they claimed to be "Hindu infidels" in India. These were popular and well-respected Afghan leaders whose public servants were well received as a source of pride when visiting any remote corner of the country. Yet they were at a loss to explain to hot-headed Afghans that the Indians were our friends. Had they openly declared war on Pakistan, they'd have received support from both sides of the Durand line without question. However, they found their Achilles heel with Pakistan’s exploitation of Islam in diverting the Afghan public’s attention away from their actual enemy.

Today, you’d be hard pressed to get even Mullah Omar to support your grumblings against India.

Pakistan unmistakably saw in its perpetual state of war with India an ongoing opportunity to secure military support from China whilst developing Afghan proxies in the name of Islam against their own country. In the process, your leaders gradually began moving away from the American orbit until the foolhardy Soviet supported Afghan Communists launched a coup as I’ve outlined in a past commentary. In view of the immense Afghan rejection of this movement, the Soviets intervened directly to support their cronies as you milked the Americans while shamelessly empowering your own proxies to annihilate Afghanistan.

Yet you miscalculated, for it was only during the second half of the 1980’s that the Americans saw in Ahmed Shah Massoud - a one time asset who had fallen out with Pakistan – an opportunity to “even the ground” in Afghanistan. Bypassing their Pakistani “allies”, the Americans began providing direct support to Massoud, hence the underlying reason for your military’s hatred of him. It burns you leaders that an Afghan from Panjsher who was once rejected by the ISI in preference for their carefully nurtured assets from among our own Pashtuns, ended up fighting against them in defense of Afghanistan. Did your people not know that even the best of plans as devised by evil-doers are undone by God’s own grand plan? How many variables do you think you would need to consider for a long term plan to work?

The Pakistanis wanted to rule Afghanistan through their murderous proxy, Gulbudeen Hekmatyar, whilst the Americans ended up working with Massoud in opposition to Pakistan’s non-negotiable whims. Much like today, you were apparently “allies” during the 1980’s. Contrary to the then UN representative for Afghanistan - Diego Cordovez – asserting that the Americans were bent on prolonging the Afghan-Soviet war (see: "Out of Afghanistan"), available evidence now helps us make a reasonable assumption that they might have engaged directly with the USSR to help patch up a Mujahedeen government in alliance with some Communists for a transitional post-Communist Afghan government. Why? To prevent an ambitious Pakistani military that was drunk on a binge of grandiose delusions. As we all know and for wider reasons I shall not elaborate here, that government failed as the then Prime Minister Hekmatyar as prodded along by Pakistan waged a destructive war against the then Defense Minister Massoud. Once Hekmatyar and his backers in the Pakistani military and intelligence were defeated in battle at a heavy cost to Afghan civilians, you then went on to back a village idiot like Mullah Omar whilst propagating the Taliban as a force for badly needed peace and stability. Your leaders also cunningly invited the popular Afghan King’s son-in-law – Sardar Wali Khan – to visit Afghan refugees in Pakistan and if only to use his presence for propagating the Taliban as a movement for the restoration of the Afghan Monarchy. Given their seeming birth place in Kandahar, many Afghans including myself took that bait, hook, line, and sinker. We had no way of knowing that the weapons that Massoud was receiving from Russia were in fact purchased by the Americans (see: “Ghost Wars”). In other words, the Americans and the Russians were working together in opposition to what they clearly saw by then as a common threat. Are you with me?

As dear old George Bush once comically fumbled with the words, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me”, we Afghans are not about to give your Taliban servants the light of day. It is the end of the line for them as a major movement. We shall embrace as fellow citizens those Taliban who earnestly seek peace, but ISI agents like the Haqqanis will be skinned alive and fed to the dogs if caught. As for those Afghans who’ve axes to grind with the current government or elements therein, they are already kicking out the Taliban from their regions and may form a mass movement of their own, inshAllah.

Vladimir Putin has been supporting the developments in Afghanistan that have led to the current status quo for a very long time. Today, he sees a plural Afghan political structure developing and with a new sense of Afghan nationalism growing among our youth. He recognizes that the Americans are going to keep an indefinite presence capable of repelling any Pakistani adventurism via proxy in case the young Afghan military were to fall short. Putin can not forget that a far less popular Najib government that his own predecessors had left behind continued to repel the Mujahedeen for a good two years until he was no longer able to pay for his soldiers as the Soviets went Bankrupt and declared Perestroika. Najib’s modest success lay in the fact that he had ditched Communism for a more Nationalist government that was in fact energized with Afghans outside of his party joining him. Yet compared to that government, today’s
Afghanistan is far better placed in any measure of comparison. For reasons that are open for debate, it is the Americans who are most responsible for undermining the Karzai government and not the Taliban or their bubble-headed sponsors. Be that as it may, today’s Afghanistan is a big platform that is about to become even broader, noisier, perhaps even more violent, but most likely all the more resilient in the longer term.

Now “Top-Gun”, try and impress me again with your delusions of grandeur. If the Pakistanis had the courage and willpower to acquire Afghanistan, you’d have done it long ago. Using Afghans against Afghans through deceit was your single most courageous act by far. Precisely what are you going to do when we are capable of returning your misery in kind? The Syrian Baathists used to support the terrorist Kurdish Communists against Turkey for many years. Now that the tables have turned, who is laughing?

One day – like the Russians - Pakistanis too are going to have to ask their unelected military leaders as to how they’ve managed to get them to where they are today. The Afghan Parliament has just passed a vote of no confidence and sacked both the Defense and Interior Ministers. “Top-Gun”, do you suppose this can happen in Pakistan today?
 
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^^

Your ANA forces are being infiltrated by Pakistani recruits as we speak. I'd say the military is doing a hell of a job.

Remember you friends the Indians supported the Northern Alliance. We will not allow the Afghans to be used again our nation. Other than that we hope to see your country prosper.
 
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You've already tried that but ended up landing on your face. In the process, you've also awakened millions of Afghans into recognizing the nature of our sworn enemy. Back in the 1960's, our national leaders were disappointed to see the ease with which Pakistan was able to galvanize support from among rural Afghans to fight what they claimed to be "Hindu infidels" in India. ....

petty bickering from some Pakistani posters that brings pettiness from Afghan side as well. What a shame.

Oh brother, come out of your stuck-in-the-past mentality and look around.

Afghans themselves are the "sworn enemy" of Afghanistan. No one but Afghanis can destroy their country or make something out of it.

If Afghanis are united, no one can come in Afghanistan against their will.

But sadly, Afghanis are anything but united.

Ever Ruskies and European army boot has come and raped Afghanistan for so many decades that one cannot even count.

So please focus on Afghanistan. Find your enemies there.

Pakistan is really really low on the list countries that have raped and destroyed Afghanistan.

In fact Pakistan is the only country in the region that does the following positive things for Afghanistan.

1. Duty free cheapest imports for your land locked Afghanistan. Ask Iran or others to match Pakistani rates please.
2. Pretty much 90% of food grain, petrol, and medicine for Afghanis, comes from or through Pakistan.
3. Pakistan is the first stop for Afghanis fleeing from violence and persecution. We provide healthcare, food and shelter. Sure UN and others come in, but the most important thing the land is provided by Pakistan.


Please do not take offense of this. These are not boasting by a Pakistani but simply a recognition that our mutual dependence is too much to be destroyed by some idiotic statements by people from either side.

It is time to end this bickering. Afghanis are only 20 million or less. Kind of the same size as one large size Pakistani city.

That's why it is important for Pakistan to promote peace and prosperity in Afghanistan instead of supporting in any which way the rabid Taliban. This will be good for Afghanistan AND Pakistan.

Lastly please keep Indian specific references out of this discussion. It just makes the matters worse for BOTH of us.

peace,.
 
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Not trolling here....Does anyone ever noticed the high intensity in putin's eyes just like of that of a serial killer.I know he was with KGB may be he was serial killer with KGB for once.Any thoughts on this????

u can tell a lot by looking at hands,hair and face. The Eyes are usually inanimate in a military professional..it comes form long hours of doing nothing.

At first glance ,one can deduce hes has military indoctrination, but his eyes are exactly like a politicians.
A serial killer never ha high intensity or active staring eyes if thats what u mean.
i assume its all media representation ,from what ur deducing ur conclusion.





@on topic :

Lol Pakistani psyco optimists got trolled.. looks like it is the new Russian Pro American policy thts showing its colors, first it was some movement wrt syria and now this.
 
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^^

Your ANA forces are being infiltrated by Pakistani recruits as we speak. I'd say the military is doing a hell of a job.

You don't say....do you suppose it'll be as bad as the attack on the Pakistan Naval Station at Mehran?

Remember you friends the Indians supported the Northern Alliance. We will not allow the Afghans to be used again our nation. Other than that we hope to see your country prosper.

Try mouthing off at an Afghan with your thick Pakistani accent about what you will and will not "allow" him to do....just one Afghan....baby steps first....take it as a learning experience....
 
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petty bickering from some Pakistani posters that brings pettiness from Afghan side as well. What a shame.

Apparently, given the weight of your response, you’d know all about “pettiness”, but don’t let that bother you…

Oh brother, come out of your stuck-in-the-past mentality and look around.

Last I checked, Pakistan’s war on Afghanistan is both past and present.

Afghans themselves are the "sworn enemy" of Afghanistan. No one but Afghanis can destroy their country or make something out of it.

If Afghanis are united, no one can come in Afghanistan against their will.

But sadly, Afghanis are anything but united.

Well said, I totally agree with you, although I doubt that a Pakistani would appreciate why “the tree of liberty needs to be sprinkled with the blood of patriots” every now and then. Afghans are a free, strong willed and independent minded people, dignified with a willingness to fearlessly fight any foreign or domestic predator. On this point, I would in fact not seek to change an atom's weight from my people. This is not to say that change on its own is bad, although it needs to come from among our people as grass root impulses. It is only then that the glorious people of Afghanistan will thrive. We were progressing fine until some from among us impatiently ignored our history by seeking to force change upon our people in light of an alien ideology. For that, we’ve willingly cannibalised ourselves and I'll be the first to burden myself with the weight of our collective follies.

What I've written is far from a complaint directed at what indeed amounts to a feeble enemy that barely compares to the pinky toe of those who dared conquer Afghanistan in the past. We Afghans used to feel silly when finding ourselves actually discussing a foe in Pakistan while trying to be serious, although the last couple of decades forced upon us a sobering humility when realizing the ease with which our enemies used our own against us. You got us there and we've ourselves to blame for it.

What I wrote is a mere reflection of the fact that Pakistan has done everything possible to add fuel to and prolong the war in Afghanistan by aiding, abetting and directing people that haven’t the capacity to form any meaningful government, let alone an inclusive one. The Haqqanis for one are no more than common criminals, albeit incredibly brutal. Gulbudeen Hekmatyar wasn’t much better, given that he had a record for murdering a fellow student in Kabul back in the 1970’s. Neither of these people represent grass root Afghan movements supported by the will of the Afghan population, and if it were left to the Afghans alone, we’d have dealt with them long ago. It was not the Afghan people that empowered these thugs and it’s not our people who are giving them safe havens. Sure they are ethnically Afghan, but in retrospect, do you seriously believe that we can’t find murderers and criminals inside Pakistan to kill their own people for wealth and power? No nation on the face of this Earth is immune from such people. To argue to the contrary is an excercise in adolecent stupidity.

Be that as it may, I suppose you expect me to forget for a moment that you are a Pakistani whose founding father was a puppet who had betrayed his fellow Indians and their nationwide independence from the British Raj by preferring to remain their vassals instead. I guess I'd also have to pretend to forget for a while that both Pakistan’s first Defence Minister and head of ISI were Englishmen whose allegiance lay with the Crown rather than Mohammed Ali Jina. As impulsive as it might be to nudge you to the contrary, I shall also try and forget Muslim Punjab’s betrayal of their co-ethnic non-Muslim brethren in light of your forefathers' submission before the conquering Arabs whose leader Jinna once referred to as the “First Pakistani”, hence an insult and betrayal of your pre-Islamic identity. Should I go on with how your leaders betrayed their people by willingly submitting themselves before every Central Asian ethnic leader to have crossed the Indus?

Ever Ruskies and European army boot has come and raped Afghanistan for so many decades that one cannot even count.

So please focus on Afghanistan. Find your enemies there.

Why for a moment there, I thought you were discussing Pakistan here. Is it my imagination that you were ruled as inferior servants of the British Raj for over 150 years? Is it also my imagination that your people are whining today about your military’s about-face to American demands post 9/11?

Pakistan is really really low on the list countries that have raped and destroyed Afghanistan.

In fact Pakistan is the only country in the region that does the following positive things for Afghanistan.

1. Duty free cheapest imports for your land locked Afghanistan. Ask Iran or others to match Pakistani rates please.
2. Pretty much 90% of food grain, petrol, and medicine for Afghanis, comes from or through Pakistan.
3. Pakistan is the first stop for Afghanis fleeing from violence and persecution. We provide healthcare, food and shelter. Sure UN and others come in, but the most important thing the land is provided by Pakistan.


Marvellous, how in the world did I ever miss the sunshine coming out of every Pakistani’s backside?
 
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Well said, I totally agree with you, although I doubt that a Pakistani would appreciate why “the tree of liberty needs to be sprinkled with the blood of patriots” every now and then. Afghans are a free, strong willed and independent minded people, dignified with a willingness to fearlessly fight any foreign or domestic predator. .....

Good. Let's focus on what we agree on.

Afghans should work with fellow Afghans who are willing to help form a stable government and be diplomatic with Afghan factions who are anti-Karazahi.

Blaming Russia, America, NATO, Pakistan, India, Iran etc. is simply counter productive (especially from Afghan POV).

peace

p.s. I'll stick to the "no-bickering" point so every attack on Pakistan as per your post is simply ignored.
 
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....I guess I'd also have to pretend to forget for a while that both Pakistan’s first Defence Minister and head of ISI were Englishmen whose allegiance lay with the Crown rather than Mohammed Ali Jina. ...

Oh dear poster,

Be a proud Afghan and not a lowly-Indian-brown-noser. There are billion+ Indians to project Indian stuff, why does an Afghan feel the need to be an Indian lackey? Boggles my mind.

I agree that Pakistan hired some Britishers (army and civilians) in early years.

But as an honest Afghan you should know that the so-called independent India's governor general was Lord Mountbatten, sitting at the very top of Nehru, Gandhi and the whole India.

So at best your statements as an Indian are "pot calling a kettle black".

If you are true Afghan (and I don't doubt it) then focus on Afghanistan please.

Pakistanis should be at peace with Indians but if they want to have $hitey things with India, well let Pakistanis take care of that side.

Hope you don't take any of my comments as personal attack on an attack on Afghanistan.

peace.
 
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In his position as the President of Russia Putin cannot possible troll. He is rightfully asking NATO to bottle up the fanatics in Afghanistan. If they win over NATO the fanatics will spread their fight to the neighbouring Muslim countries and to a part of Muslim regions of Russia and China. Putin may feel it is necessary to defeat fanatism in the land that initiated fanatism, albeit, with USSR push decades ago.
 
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You don't say....do you suppose it'll be as bad as the attack on the Pakistan Naval Station at Mehran?



Try mouthing off at an Afghan with your thick Pakistani accent about what you will and will not "allow" him to do....just one Afghan....baby steps first....take it as a learning experience....

My thick Pakistani accent? You are a funny guy. I have done it many times already in Pakistan and here in Ny. I fear nobody except god. When someone is wrong they are wrong. I know enough Afgans that would spit on Tajik communists like you. They blame you for leaving their land, not us for giving them some.
 
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^^

Your ANA forces are being infiltrated by Pakistani recruits as we speak. I'd say the military is doing a hell of a job.

Remember you friends the Indians supported the Northern Alliance. We will not allow the Afghans to be used again our nation. Other than that we hope to see your country prosper.
It can work other way too.double edge sword.
 
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