Russia's 5G fighter to be '3 times cheaper than foreign analogs

[SBD-3]

What is SC? What features are unavailable on the F-35?

I wasn't expecting that......it is an abbreviation of Super Cruise

 

[Dark Angel]

even with delays and all the late stuff!! well honestly I doubt the first statement as USAF gets one F-22A in 200 Mios so addressing this PAK-FA will only cost 67 Mio?....well any sane man with adequate knowledge of technology would question such a claim like how?...the reasons I can think of are
1) Russians are getting/developing every input virtually free. (Not Possible)
2) Russians are not paying the development expenditures (Not Possible Either)
3) Russians expect that they will flood the market with PAK-FA like Mig-21 (not possible either as it will not only entail serious threats to local tech and intense competition from JSF)
4) The Aircraft is not a true fifth gen as uptill now the fifth gen are costing almost 120 Mio (JSF) a piece. If it is a 5th gen, then such a claim should prompt India to abandon MRCA/MKI purchases in favor for much more worthwhile PAK-FA. (There are no signal for this as well)

I will post my thought about 2nd statement only after conducting a reasonable research

The cost of one F-22 is $350 million dollars ....F-22 is a failed project and a shame on US congress see the video before commenting

 

[SBD-3]

The cost of one F-22 is $350 million dollars ....F-22 is a failed project and a shame on US congress see the video before commenting



YouTube - Wastefull F-22 fighter Jet By GOP Congress Rachel Maddow

yeah still 4,5,6 F-15Cs of USAF can't mess with a single failed project here is the experience of real F-22 pilot
mark his word,"its usually 4,5,6 of them and still its not a fair fight"

 

[Dark Angel]

Check this out

Dont belive the maker cause he will not say i am inferior to anyone looool

 

[SBD-3]

Check this out


YouTube - Eurofighter Typhoon beat the F-22




Dont belive the maker cause he will not say i am inferior to anyone looool

lemme add to your information that even a USAF EA-18G as well as an F-16 have also scored kills against F-22......F-22 is not invincible....yet it is the ultimate destination. Why UK is interested in JSF? considering Trench III typhoon will have considerable MR capabilities they still weigh JSF as more significant. JSF and F-22 are still more value than Typhoon. Why Japan, Australia and many other countries were willing to bear costs for even "watering down" F-22 inorder to get an export version of this bird....the reputation does not build in air my man

 

[sancho]

What is SC? What features are unavailable on the F-35?

Supercruise, TVC, super manouverability..., check the graphic and compare how much points F22 and Pak Fa have in common and F35 has not:

Just to make it clear, I don't think that EF is a 5. gen fighter, but the it is hard to say what capabilities you need to be in that class, where does the F15SE for example fit in?

Indeed agreed....but yet considering the both PAK-FA the most of the specs quoted on respectable web sources are a reflection of SU-27 and yet I am not able to find any discrete specs so that one may make an informed decision about the two aircraft....having said so I still believe that F-35 is much more sophisticated than PAK-FA on systems front (trimming out physical attributes SC, Twin Engine etc)

Which should be not surprising, because it is meant to replace exactly those older Flankers, if you search for F35, you will also often find that it is more capable in this and that field to F16, that it mainly will replace.
Pak Fa made its first flight only a few month ago and at the moment even all the experts of aviation magazines, are estimating its capabilities only on what they have seen so far. You have to be a little more patient till more details and specs will come out, for a comparison.
There is simply too much unkown so far and not even at Pak Fa only! Russia is developing several new weapons for Pak Fa and we have only speculations about their performance too.

 

[sancho]

Check this out


YouTube - Eurofighter Typhoon beat the F-22




Dont belive the maker cause he will not say i am inferior to anyone looool

Hi, check the MMRCA thread and the articles I posted regarding Rafale vs F22 and vs EF, could be interesting too!

 

[Dark Angel]

lemme add to your information that even a USAF EA-18G as well as an F-16 have also scored kills against F-22......F-22 is not invincible....yet it is the ultimate destination. Why UK is interested in JSF? considering Trench III typhoon will have considerable MR capabilities they still weigh JSF as more significant. JSF and F-22 are still more value than Typhoon. Why Japan, Australia and many other countries were willing to bear costs for even "watering down" F-22 inorder to get an export version of this bird....the reputation does not build in air my man

1)Well u dont need to add anything to my info as i already know the incidents abt EA-18G and F-16

2) JSF has lot of features which differ from EF and vice-versa

3) I dont know abt your view but most of the AF keep their inventory diverse and updated including IAF

4) after all the US congress blunders were released no one wanted F-22 with a tag of $350 million

 

[sancho]

lemme add to your information that even a USAF EA-18G as well as an F-16 have also scored kills against F-22......F-22 is not invincible....yet it is the ultimate destination. Why UK is interested in JSF? considering Trench III typhoon will have considerable MR capabilities they still weigh JSF as more significant. JSF and F-22 are still more value than Typhoon. Why Japan, Australia and many other countries were willing to bear costs for even "watering down" F-22 inorder to get an export version of this bird....the reputation does not build in air my man

Of course stealth is an advantage and the more such fighters will be developed, the better their techs will be, but we have to keep in mind that, if these fighters will be detected, they will lose most of these advantages and then even 4. gen fighters will be very dangerous. The F35 is imo count too much on stealth its techs like AIM 9X and avionics, that's why it lacks in flight performance. If latest fighters like EF and Rafale will be on par with F22 in WVR, they will clearly beat the F35.

Ok time to sleep now, G8 and btw I answerd you regarding the C130J too!

 

[SBD-3]

1)Well u dont need to add anything to my info as i already know the incidents abt EA-18G and F-16

2) JSF has lot of features which differ from EF and vice-versa

3) I dont know abt your view but most of the AF keep their inventory diverse and updated including IAF

4) after all the US congress blunders were released no one wanted F-22 with a tag of $350 million

well you are right.....but then you should have done a more comprehensive analysis rather than "indication".
oh just one more point.....What I think is that World airforces are concentrating on lesser platforms rather than diverse platforms...
USAF F-22 and JSF
IdAF F-15 and JSF
UAE F-16E and rafaels
KSA F-15s and EF
PLAAF JXX,J-10,J-11
PAF FC-20, F-16,JF-17
having a diverse fleet will expose AFs to greater maintainence headache higher operating cost.

 

[Super Falcon]

well so what paf has in their mind russia and usa nver sell their top stuff to pakistan than what pakistan can do

 

[SBD-3]

well so what paf has in their mind russia and usa nver sell their top stuff to pakistan than what pakistan can do

I guess we already have a discussion on this issue in military aviation

 

[Moscow]

Now Just compare
F-22 Cost= 65 Billion (very conservative estimate) (some site refer to 189 Bio as total project cost)
JSF=F-35’s Projected Cost Now $382 Billion, Up 65 Percent (similar case with PAK-FA)
JXX= USD 30 Billion
PAK-FA= 8-10 Billion only(even considering 4 years delay)

really looking at the statistics it seems that Russkies are cracking a joke

now i will tell you what the joke is

check putins interview yesterday _ 30 billion has been pumped into the project and the full development needs 30 billion more now do your maths
dont underestimate the russian defence industry they will not give you money figures... and see the interest of putin this project will get unlimited funds

 

[Avatar]

1-well I am living in the same world as you are....but looking at your argument....should I imply that It is possible to create a AESA radar in the same cost of MSA? or creating a cutting edge digital avionics should cost the same as traditional one?
2-Russians are expecting mass production by 2015-2016. And there is no reason for IAF to look for 2020-2025 as HAL would produce it for IAF rather than Russian plant

I dont know about the cost of the radar. The complete package will be available for between 90-120 million USD. From what I know, the Radar will be one of the most advanced features of the PAK-FA.
The costs might have reduced because of expertise and new production strategies. Russia has been researching this for decades and they always knew if they want success then they have to use the money in the most efficient manner.

Based on the current industrial infrastructure, I dont think India has the capability to produce beyond 35-50 jets a year. I dont know about Russia. 500 is no small order and Russians would get their variant a little sooner than India.

 

[ptldM3]

Now Just compare
F-22 Cost= 65 Billion (very conservative estimate) (some site refer to 189 Bio as total project cost)
JSF=F-35’s Projected Cost Now $382 Billion, Up 65 Percent (similar case with PAK-FA)
JXX= USD 30 Billion
PAK-FA= 8-10 Billion only(even considering 4 years delay)

really looking at the statistics it seems that Russkies are cracking a joke

It's 30 Billion dollars and that is just the esstimated cost, the final cost may soar well above the esstimated cost. You also fail to understand the economics of building aircraft in Russia and building an aircraft in the US; cheaper labor and efficiency is why the pa-fa is realatively cheap, build the same aircraft in the US and the price will atleast double or tripple.