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Russia's 5G fighter to be '3 times cheaper than foreign analogs

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Russia's fifth generation fighter will be about three times as cheap as its foreign analog, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Thursday.

He observed the test flight of a prototype fighter and later talked to the pilot, Sergei Bogdan.

"It will be a machine superior to our main competitor, the F-22, in maneuverability, armament and range," Putin said.

"Also in morale," the pilot added.

"Above all else," Putin said smiling.

Bogdan said it was the fighter's 16th test flight and more would follow shortly.

The prime minister said 30 billion rubles (around $1 billion) had already been spent on the project and another 30 billion would be required to complete it, after which the engine, weaponry and other components would be upgraded.

He said, factoring in modernization and upgrades, the fighter will have a service life of 30-35 years.

Russia's only known fifth-generation project is Sukhoi's PAK FA and the current prototype is the T-50. It is designed to compete with the U.S. F-22 Raptor, so far the world's only fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II.

Russia has been developing its newest fighter since the 1990s. The country's top military officials earlier said the stealth fighter jet with a range of up to 5,500 km would enter service with the Air Force in 2015.

The PAK FA is to be armed with next-generation air-to-air, air-to-surface, and air-to-ship missiles, and has two 30-mm cannons.


:sniper::sniper::sniper::victory::victory::::victory::flame::flame::flame:


Russia's 5G fighter to be '3 times cheaper than foreign analogs' | Russia | RIA Novosti
 
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3 times cheaper than the f-22? which price estimate are they using?
 
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The FGFA will cost in the same range of Eurofighter Typhoon (counting inflation)

How I wish India takes a active part in this program and understands the critical technology of Stealth and Engine design.
:cheers:
 
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Russia's fifth generation fighter will be about three times as cheap as its foreign analog, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Thursday.

He observed the test flight of a prototype fighter and later talked to the pilot, Sergei Bogdan.

"It will be a machine superior to our main competitor, the F-22, in maneuverability, armament and range," Putin said.

"Also in morale," the pilot added.

"Above all else," Putin said smiling.

Bogdan said it was the fighter's 16th test flight and more would follow shortly.

The prime minister said 30 billion rubles (around $1 billion) had already been spent on the project and another 30 billion would be required to complete it, after which the engine, weaponry and other components would be upgraded.

He said, factoring in modernization and upgrades, the fighter will have a service life of 30-35 years.

Russia's only known fifth-generation project is Sukhoi's PAK FA and the current prototype is the T-50. It is designed to compete with the U.S. F-22 Raptor, so far the world's only fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II.

Russia has been developing its newest fighter since the 1990s. The country's top military officials earlier said the stealth fighter jet with a range of up to 5,500 km would enter service with the Air Force in 2015.

The PAK FA is to be armed with next-generation air-to-air, air-to-surface, and air-to-ship missiles, and has two 30-mm cannons.


:sniper::sniper::sniper::victory::victory::::victory::flame::flame::flame:


Russia's 5G fighter to be '3 times cheaper than foreign analogs' | Russia | RIA Novosti

even with delays and all the late stuff!! well honestly I doubt the first statement as USAF gets one F-22A in 200 Mios so addressing this PAK-FA will only cost 67 Mio?....well any sane man with adequate knowledge of technology would question such a claim like how?...the reasons I can think of are
1) Russians are getting/developing every input virtually free. (Not Possible)
2) Russians are not paying the development expenditures (Not Possible Either)
3) Russians expect that they will flood the market with PAK-FA like Mig-21 (not possible either as it will not only entail serious threats to local tech and intense competition from JSF)
4) The Aircraft is not a true fifth gen as uptill now the fifth gen are costing almost 120 Mio (JSF) a piece. If it is a 5th gen, then such a claim should prompt India to abandon MRCA/MKI purchases in favor for much more worthwhile PAK-FA. (There are no signal for this as well)

I will post my thought about 2nd statement only after conducting a reasonable research
 
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even with delays and all the late stuff!! well honestly I doubt the first statement as USAF gets one F-22A in 200 Mios so addressing this PAK-FA will only cost 67 Mio?....well any sane man with adequate knowledge of technology would question such a claim like how?...the reasons I can think of are
1) Russians are getting/developing every input virtually free.
2) Russians are not paying the development expenditures
3) Russians expect that they will flood the market with PAK-FA like Mig-21
4) The Aircraft is not a true fifth gen as uptill now the fifth gen are costing almost 120 Mio (JSF) a piece. If it is a 5th gen, then such a claim should prompt India to abandon MRCA/MKI purchases in favor for much more worthwhile PAK-FA.

I will post my thought about 2nd statement only after conducting a reasonable research

It really is not a big factor if the initial build cannot take on F22. There are just 300 of them anyway. In the South Asia region, it wont be far to claim a monopoly of the 5th Gen for a long time to come.
:cheers:
 
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even with delays and all the late stuff!! well honestly I doubt the first statement as USAF gets one F-22A in 200 Mios so addressing this PAK-FA will only cost 67 Mio?....well any sane man with adequate knowledge of technology would question such a claim like how?...the reasons I can think of are
1) Russians are getting/developing every input virtually free. (Not Possible)
2) Russians are not paying the development expenditures (Not Possible Either)
3) Russians expect that they will flood the market with PAK-FA like Mig-21 (not possible either as it will not only entail serious threats to local tech and intense competition from JSF)
4) The Aircraft is not a true fifth gen as uptill now the fifth gen are costing almost 120 Mio (JSF) a piece. If it is a 5th gen, then such a claim should prompt India to abandon MRCA/MKI purchases in favor for much more worthwhile PAK-FA. (There are no signal for this as well)

I will post my thought about 2nd statement only after conducting a reasonable research

What world are you living in dude ?

You say it's not a 5th gen just because it's cheaper than JSF. Since when did cost become a factor for validating 5th gen aircrafts ?

Besides, I dont think it will be THAT much cheaper.

Secondly, the PAK FA is expected to be ready in 2015-2016. From then it should take at least a decade for both the respective air forces to induct their respective orders. So we're looking at 2020-2025.

On the other hand, MRCA will be inducted within 5 years of the point the decision is made. The first aircrafts shall be inducted in IAF by the time Russian 5th gen begins production.

Different aircraft have different roles. The current Air Force is sufficient for all realistic threats, but less than what was the prescribed strength.

Edit: India, China, Japan are some countries pursuing 5th Gen fighters in the Asian continent. India might have the lead on this one but in the long run everyone (that matters) will have the technology. This will also be a significant leap in India's defence capabilities.
 
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T-50 / Project 701 / PAK FA - Program
[Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi]

The government commission decided on 26 April 2002 to choose the Sukhoi holding company as the head company to develop and produce the fighter of the fifth generation. The prototype of the PAK FA was to take-off in 2006 and that in 2010 the aircraft was to be ready for series production. The first deliveries, both for Russian armed forces and for export, were to be possible in 2011-12. The new airplane was proposed to be brought from the concept design to a prototype series in less than 9 years. Historically, fourth and fifth generation fighters have not been created in less than 15 years. The Russian government had promised to allocate 1.5 billion dollars for the PAK FA through 2010. But the Russian Air Force was receiving less than 200 million dollars a year during this period, and would spend it primarily on other needs.

The prices and sources of funding will determine the destiny of the whole program. As of 2002 officials agreed that the initial phase of the program would cost $1.5 billion. However, $1.5 billion was the sum needed for creating a new generation of avionics for the fighter (considering the fact that pre-production models of the phased array have already been produced, and would soon be tested). And finally, designers would have to spend several hundred millions of dollars on creating a new airframe.

The new fighter's exterior design was approved on December 10, 2004.

The development of an engine for the fifth generation jet fighters involved two big companies, NPO Saturn (in consortium with UMPO) and FSUE Salyut, which are participating in this project and competing against each other to win the state-guaranteed order. The project is being implemented in two stages: firstly through upgrading the fourth-generation AL-31F engine and, secondly, the development of a basically new configuration of the fifth-generation engine. The consortium led by NPO Saturn was the winner of the first stage and their engine design will be installed on the first PAK FA engine prototypes. Their procurement was scheduled for 2010. However, installation of the unit developed by Salyut on the modernised Su-27 jet fighter had already been carried out since December 2006.

The financing for the first stage was considerably lower than the funds planned by the government to finance the second stage (according to unofficial information US$500m and US$2–3bn, respectively). Completion of the AL-41F engine (by 2007 with a readiness of 30 percent) would require, in the opinion of the boss of Rosaviakosmos, 600 - 800 million dollars. Saturn said that launching of production of the AL-41F engine would take $150 million. An improved version of the AL-31F will be used on the aircraft originally (though it is not clear how these heavy motors are reconciled with the concept of a 20-ton fighter). The upgrade of these engines will require expenditures of 1.2-1.5 billion dollars.

State financing would cover not more than 20-22 percent of the cost of the development of the PAK FA. It will thus be necessary to draw extrabudgetary sources of funding, lending the development program a principle of openness for international cooperation. In the opinion of experts, export income, if it is taken from the plants, can provide not more than 1 billion dollars. It is maintained that the insufficient amounts can be received from foreign partners.

The plane's development was to be conducted with a view of achieving a reasonable compromise between its cost and combat efficiency, and take into account the market demand. It was estimated by Russian sources that export sales of the new warplane must reach 500 to 600 fighters at a price of $35 to $40 million each to make production of the new aircraft profitable.

According to some reports, India and Russia agreed to jointly develop this fifth-generation fighter, under a scheduled entry into service in 2009. This would be the first such joint development venture between the two countries. There was little chance that Russia would have fifth-generation pursuit planes of its own. Development and construction of a fifth-generation fighter would require about $20 billion dollars, and as of early 2004 it was unlikely that the government will appropriate financing of this scale. "The problem is that economic and military authorities in this country live in parallel spaces and have no common approach to problems," according to Deputy Director of the analytical department of the Political and Military Analysis Institute Alexander Khramchikhin.

According to a report on 09 January 2008, the general director of the company "Sukhoi" Michael Pogosyan said the tests were officially planned for 2009, and “closer to 2015” its serial production must start. In general all goes according to the schedule, he said. "Now we are at the stage of constructing pre-production models of the plane. It is necessary go step by step through the stages which are directly linked to the preparation of the flight tests".

On 03 April 2008 RIA Novosti reported that Russia planned to begin flight tests of the new fifth-generation fighter in 2009. "The development of a fifth-generation Advanced Tactical Frontline Fighter is being carried out under the Sukhoi PAK FA project," Russian industry and energy minister Viktor Khristenko said in a report posted on the ministry's website. "The flight tests of the aircraft are scheduled to begin in 2009," he said. The new fighter aircraft, which will feature high maneuverability and stealth to ensure air superiority and precision in destroying ground and sea targets, will be built at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft-manufacturing plant in Russia's Far East.

In the Summer of 2009, the fighter's design was approved, and the prototype blueprints were delivered to the KNAAPO aircraft building company based in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, where three experimental fighters would be built for testing. On 07 July 2008 Air Force commander Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin said "We will begin test flights [of the new fighter] in 2009, and hope to receive the aircraft in 2013". In February 2009, the first prototype was constructed. After the plane was successfully tested on the runway, a decision was made to stage the maiden flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, rather than in Moscow.

The maiden flight of the first Russian fifth-generation fighter jet was completed successfully on Friday morning, 29 January 2010 at Komsomol'sk-na-Amur. The test pilot of the Russian Federation Sergey Bogdan piloted the aircraft. The prototype PAC[FA] conducted a flight of 47 minutes and completed landing on the takeoff and landing strip of the factory airfield. The flight passed successfully, in complete agreement with the flight mission. “In the course of flight we conducted the primary estimation of the aircraft handling, work of engine and main systems, aircraft produced regular harvesting and landing gear lowering. Aircraft showed well itself in all stages of the flying program outlined by us. It to easily and comfortably govern”, noted Sergey Bogdan.

“Today we approached the execution of the flight test program of the aircraft of the fifth generation. This is the great success of Russian science and design thought. After this reaching stands the cooperation more than hundred subcontracting enterprises, our strategic partners. Program PAC[FA] derives Russian aircraft construction and adjacent branches to the qualitatively new technological level. These aircraft, together with the modernized aviation complexes of the fourth generation will determine the potential of Russian VVS during the next decades. Into the plans of company “Sukhoi” enters further development of program PAC[FA], at which we will work together with the Indian partners. I am confident, that our joint project will exceed western analogs on the criterion cost- effectiveness and will make it possible not only to strengthen the defense power VVS of Russia and India, but also will be occupied worthy place on the World Market”, said the Director-General of joint stock company “company “Sukhoi” Mikhail Pogosyan, commenting on the beginning of flight tests.

As of early 2010 the newest combat aircraft were planned to be mass produced in Komsomolsk-on-Amur from 2015-2017. At that time, a total production run of at least 150-200 aircraft for the Russian Air Force and 200 aircraft for the Indian Air Force was envisioned. The Russian forces have a stated requirement for 420 aircraft to equip 10 regiments, each with 36 combat aircraft and six trainer-combat aircraft. As of 2006 Sukhoi hoped to achieve export sales of 500-650 aircraft. In January 2010, according to Ruslan Pukhov of the Center for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, the PAK-FA might gain one third of the total market for such aircraft, competing with both the F-22 and the F-35. As of early 2010 total developmental costs were estimated at about $8-10 Billion, at which time the unit cost was estimated at about $100 Million.

Lieutenant Colonel Marcel de Haas, Russian security researcher at the Netherlands Institute of International Relations Clingendael, was not convinced of the plane's bright future. "My impression is that this new fighter plane is also more propaganda than a real expectancy," he told Reuters.

Now Just compare
F-22 Cost= 65 Billion (very conservative estimate) (some site refer to 189 Bio as total project cost)
JSF=F-35’s Projected Cost Now $382 Billion, Up 65 Percent (similar case with PAK-FA)
JXX= USD 30 Billion
PAK-FA= 8-10 Billion only(even considering 4 years delay)

really looking at the statistics it seems that Russkies are cracking a joke:coffee:
 
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What world are you living in dude ?

You say it's not a 5th gen just because it's cheaper than JSF.
Since when did cost become a factor for validating 5th gen aircrafts ?
Besides, I dont think it will be THAT much cheaper.

Secondly, the PAK FA is expected to be ready in 2015-2016
. From then it should take at least a decade for both the respective air forces to induct their respective orders. So we're looking at 2020-2025.

On the other hand, MRCA will be inducted within 5 years of the point the decision is made. The first aircrafts shall be inducted in IAF by the time Russian 5th gen begins production.

Different aircraft have different roles. The current Air Force is sufficient for all realistic threats, but less than what was the prescribed strength.
1-well I am living in the same world as you are....but looking at your argument....should I imply that It is possible to create a AESA radar in the same cost of MSA? or creating a cutting edge digital avionics should cost the same as traditional one?
2-Russians are expecting mass production by 2015-2016. And there is no reason for IAF to look for 2020-2025 as HAL would produce it for IAF rather than Russian plant
 
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A comparison with the SU-35 and other MRCA competitors will give an answer to this problem
 
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even with delays and all the late stuff!! well honestly I doubt the first statement as USAF gets one F-22A in 200 Mios so addressing this PAK-FA will only cost 67 Mio?....well any sane man with adequate knowledge of technology would question such a claim like how?...the reasons I can think of are
1) Russians are getting/developing every input virtually free. (Not Possible)
2) Russians are not paying the development expenditures (Not Possible Either)
3) Russians expect that they will flood the market with PAK-FA like Mig-21 (not possible either as it will not only entail serious threats to local tech and intense competition from JSF)
4) The Aircraft is not a true fifth gen as uptill now the fifth gen are costing almost 120 Mio (JSF) a piece. If it is a 5th gen, then such a claim should prompt India to abandon MRCA/MKI purchases in favor for much more worthwhile PAK-FA. (There are no signal for this as well)

I will post my thought about 2nd statement only after conducting a reasonable research

Hi, hasnain0099

First of all, if F22 cost "only" $200 millions, the US would still produce it! In reality it costs between $250 and 300 million each, so if Pak Fa would cost 3 times less, that's still between $80 to 100 millions.
Secondly, from what we could see and get from reports so far, you really can't say it wouldn't be a 5. gen fighter!
It is designed for stealth (wing, or airframe design), has internal weapon bays. It was reported that it already achieved SC, even with the S117 engine and the latest prototypes even have TVC.
These all are features of 5. gen fighters and some of them are not even available at F35! What we don't know so far is, how good, or bad he radar and avionics are, but again not even the F35 avionics are ready yet, so that is no reason to say it is not a 5. gen fighter.

The only point where we can discuss about is the engine part (coverings and nozzels) and if it has a ducted air intake, or features radar blockers, because the should be improved to be comparable. But as we know, these are only early prototypes and the final version will get a totally new engine.

However, so far Russia can be very proud of what they achieved and I hope that we will join them soon to build our own version!
 
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The FGFA will cost in the same range of Eurofighter Typhoon (counting inflation)

No it won't...the conservative estimate at the time of the first flight was 100 million per jet. As always the final price is always higher than the initial estimate.
 
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Hi, hasnain0099


It is designed for stealth (wing, or airframe design), has internal weapon bays. It was reported that it already achieved SC, even with the S117 engine and the latest prototypes even have TVC.
These all are features of 5. gen fighters and some of them are not even available at F35!

What is SC? What features are unavailable on the F-35?
 
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Hi, hasnain0099

First of all, if F22 cost "only" $200 millions, the US would still produce it! In reality it costs between $250 and 300 million each, so if Pak Fa would cost 3 times less, that's still between $80 to 100 millions.
Secondly, from what we could see and get from reports so far, you really can't say it wouldn't be a 5. gen fighter!
It is designed for stealth (wing, or airframe design), has internal weapon bays. It was reported that it already achieved SC, even with the S117 engine and the latest prototypes even have TVC.
These all are features of 5. gen fighters and some of them are not even available at F35! What we don't know so far is, how good, or bad he radar and avionics are, but again not even the F35 avionics are ready yet, so that is no reason to say it is not a 5. gen fighter.

The only point where we can discuss about is the engine part (coverings and nozzels) and if it has a ducted air intake, or features radar blockers, because the should be improved to be comparable. But as we know, these are only early prototypes and the final version will get a totally new engine.

However, so far Russia can be very proud of what they achieved and I hope that we will join them soon to build our own version!

Indeed agreed....but yet considering the both PAK-FA the most of the specs quoted on respectable web sources are a reflection of SU-27 and yet I am not able to find any discrete specs so that one may make an informed decision about the two aircraft....having said so I still believe that F-35 is much more sophisticated than PAK-FA on systems front (trimming out physical attributes SC, Twin Engine etc)
 
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Now Just compare
F-22 Cost= 65 Billion (very conservative estimate) (some site refer to 189 Bio as total project cost)
JSF=F-35’s Projected Cost Now $382 Billion, Up 65 Percent (similar case with PAK-FA)
JXX= USD 30 Billion
PAK-FA= 8-10 Billion only(even considering 4 years delay)

really looking at the statistics it seems that Russkies are cracking a joke:coffee:

As of 2010 the cost is 10 billion with years to go before the plane is in production...India alone is expected to put 5 billion in to develop the spin off FGFA(?). So we can be pretty sure the costs are going to be pretty steep.
 
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