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Russians 'send in big guns to sell arms to Egypt'

BLACKEAGLE

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CAIRO, Nov. 5 (UPI) -- The Russians have been quick to exploit U.S. President Barack Obama's Oct. 9 suspension of hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Egypt.
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Moscow's military intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Vyacheslav Kondrashov, reportedly visited Cairo seeking to restore a strategic dialogue between the Kremlin and Cairo after a four-decade break and to discuss Egypt's military requirements in the event of tougher U.S. action in response to the Egyptian army's July 3 ouster of the country's first Islamist president, Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the killing of hundreds of his supporters.

Egypt's relations with the United States nosedived after the Obama administration froze delivery of four Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets, 10 Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopters and kits for 125 General Dynamics Land Systems M1A1 Abram tanks, along with some $260 million of the $1.3 billion in U.S. military Cairo gets every year.

Washington says the cutoff will not be permanent, but relations between Washington and Cairo, already troubled by Washington's effort to secure a rapprochement with Iran, have swiftly chilled, jeopardizing an alliance that played a major role in stabilizing the Middle East for much of the last 30 years.

Israel's Debkafile website, which is widely believed to have links with Israeli intelligence, said that Kondrashov, head of Russia's GRU military intelligence and deputy chief of the general staff, said Egypt asked Moscow to provide the type of weapons the Pentagon refused to supply, including medium-range ballistic missiles that cover most of the Middle East, including Iran.

Debkafile suggested that the weapon Egypt's generals "are most likely after" is Russia's new SS-25 road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile which has a reputed range of 2,000 miles and which the Russians recently tested.

Military analysts say Moscow probably isn't very keen on supplying such advanced systems to Egypt as that would aggravate Washington and would add a new layer of complexity to the highly volatile security crisis in the Middle East.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is determined to restore the influence Moscow had in the Arab world during the Cold War, with arms sales an important element in that drive.

Kondrashov's response on the missile issue is not known. But Debkafile reported he said Moscow is prepared to offer the Egyptian generals long-term credit on easy terms to finance any arms package on which agreement is reached.

Kondrashov's Oct. 28 arrival in Cairo, at the head of a large military delegation, was the first such visit since the late President Anwar Sadatexpelled Egypt's Soviet allies in 1972, a precursor to his eventual shift to the United States and Egypt's switch from Soviet to U.S. military hardware.


The Sunday Times of London said the Egyptians would like to acquire the new generation of anti-tank weapons Russia is now producing and want upgrades for the Soviet-era tanks and other equipment is still has in its military inventory.

However, much of that equipment is aging or obsolete, and it's difficult to determine why the Egyptians would want to bother with upgrades, when they might be in a position to acquire top-of-the-line systems from Moscow.

However, in 2006, the Egyptians reportedly had Russia's Oboronitelnye Sistemy, or Defensive Systems, overhaul the S-125 surface-to-air missile system it had bought years earlier from Moscow to modern standards and renamed the S-125 Pechora 2M, a far more powerful and effective weapon designated SA-3A Goa by NATO.

These are still in the Egyptian air-defense inventory. Israeli warplanes reportedly targeted Syrian S-125s acquired from Russia in a raid on the port of Latakia Oct. 30.

There's also been speculation that the Russians, who maintain a limited naval facility at the Syrian port of Tartus may seek to obtain a larger base at an Egyptian port on the Mediterranean, where Putin apparently seeks to establish a permanent Russian naval presence.

Egyptian strongman Gen. Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi, the defense minister and army chief, has shown no sign of backing off his harsh crackdown on Morsi's Islamist supporters, and indeed there are reports it is intensifying.

Wayne White, a former deputy director of the State Department's Middle East intelligence office, observed: "The F-16s and tanks are not relevant to the ongoing repression, so this action may not do anything to reduce it."
Russia seeks to restore military links with Egypt, sell arms - UPI.com

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Why would Egypt want ballistic missiles?

The only reason I could think of is quite a wild one. In case of wider nuclear proliferation in the ME (specifically Iran-Saudi) region the Egyptian Armed Forces may deem it necessary to develop (or purchase) nuclear weapons. The range of the Topol puts Iran firmly in range. Although Egypt already has a limited amount of long range ballistic missiles which are from Field Marshal. Abugazzallah's time. Their status is unknown. The expansion of Egypt's ballistic missile program (recently) is also odd to me. WILD!

I wonder what might these arms be. :/

Everybody is being shtuum which is annoying. I've heard that the deals will only involve weapon systems destined for the Air Defence forces, Air Force, and Navy. Patience is a virtue (apparently).
 
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The only reason I could think of is quite a wild one. In case of wider nuclear proliferation in the ME (specifically Iran-Saudi) region the Egyptian Armed Forces may deem it necessary to develop (or purchase) nuclear weapons. The range of the Topol puts Iran firmly in range. Although Egypt already has a limited amount of long range ballistic missiles which are from Field Marshal. Abugazzallah's time. Their status is unknown. The expansion of Egypt's ballistic missile program (recently) is also odd to me. WILD!



Everybody is being shtuum which is annoying. I've heard that the deals will only involve weapon systems destined for the Air Defence forces, Air Force, and Navy. Patience is a virtue (apparently).

I don't get it. So Israel has had a nuclear arsenal for over 40 years now and Arabs didn't make a single move. Now Iran which as of now only still have nuclear reactors and enriched uranium somehow causes the Arab world to tremble in fear and exercise their military options. Ha. Do Arabs seriously believe Iran is coming for them? This is a wild thought. Iran is looking at the history of the Middle East and realize how essential nuclear weapons are for a stable secure nation. They don't want Iraq to happen to them. Who cares of they want to balance power in the region. As long as they don't go too far it's within their right to exercise a policy that favors independent strategies over a US and West dominated political dilemma which is unpopular amongst Arabic people's as well.

Sometimes I wonder, if their suspected quest for nuclear weapons causes Arabic nations to restrategize and move towards making beneficial advances for their own people I like that. But, Iran is ahead in this game. They knew they would have to be dependent on their own missiles. If they prove to the world they can be self sufficient militarily this is what draws them further from military confrontation. They have their own guidance and strategy. It doesn't rely on actual western tactics or weapons. Now that they've reverse engineered many weapon systems it's only for their benefit.

If what you say is true then I really don't understand you people...and this is coming from an Arab. It just sounds retarded.
 
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I don't get it. So Israel has had a nuclear arsenal for over 40 years now and Arabs didn't make a single move. Now Iran which as of now only still have nuclear reactors and enriched uranium somehow causes the Arab world to tremble in fear and exercise their military options. Ha. Do Arabs seriously believe Iran is coming for them? This is a wild thought. Iran is looking at the history of the Middle East and realize how essential nuclear weapons are for a stable secure nation. They don't want Iraq to happen to them. Who cares of they want to balance power in the region. As long as they don't go too far it's within their right to exercise a policy that favors independent strategies over a US and West dominated political dilemma which is unpopular amongst Arabic people's as well.

Sometimes I wonder, if their suspected quest for nuclear weapons causes Arabic nations to restrategize and move towards making beneficial advances for their own people I like that. But, Iran is ahead in this game. They knew they would have to be dependent on their own missiles. If they prove to the world they can be self sufficient militarily this is what draws them further from military confrontation. They have their own guidance and strategy. It doesn't rely on actual western tactics or weapons. Now that they've reverse engineered many weapon systems it's only for their benefit.

If what you say is true then I really don't understand you people...and this is coming from an Arab. It just sounds retarded.
Shias can never do a thing which does not effect real islam in one way or other. their weapons are not for jews. remember they are cunning.
 
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So Israel has had a nuclear arsenal for over 40 years now and Arabs didn't make a single move.

The majority of Arab nations were not (and are not) threatened by the Israeli bomb as they weren't targets, simply because they had no (real) standing armies (at the time 1948-1979) and the majority didn't border the Zionist state. Egypt delved into the possibility of nuclear armament but funds had to be re-appropriated (some argue they were never provided in the first place) after 1967. Several other Arab states started nuclear programs which ultimately failed due to several factors (including Israeli military action).

Now Iran which as of now only still have nuclear reactors and enriched uranium somehow causes the Arab world to tremble in fear and exercise their military options. Ha. Do Arabs seriously believe Iran is coming for them? This is a wild thought.

Personally, I have nothing against the Iranian nuclear program. I have my doubts whether they are truly pursuing its civilian application alone but no evidence has been provided by any agency or state which can prove otherwise so I can't really fault them or attack them. The Iranian regime does have a history in battling with Arab (Sunni) regimes and I believe that the current Arab leadership believes that if given a chance the Iranian regime will go for them as they did for Saddam. Whether there's any reality to this is unknown.

Iran is looking at the history of the Middle East and realize how essential nuclear weapons are for a stable secure nation.]

I don't agree with that. I am completely against nuclear (WMD in general) armament both in the middle east and globally. I also don't agree with your analysis that to have a stable and secure nation in the middle east nuclear armament is required or that it would in any way change the dynamics (for good) of the region. A little example, if the Syrian regime had succeeded in their nuclear armament program and acquired the bomb would of the Syrian revolt not happened? would those nuclear weapons be safe and secure? analysts worry about Pakistan's nukes and compared to Syria its much more stable.

A ME where everyone has the bomb is one in which a thermonuclear war will be triggered.

They don't want Iraq to happen to them.

Even with nukes I don't think Iraq could have avoided what happened to it. Delayed, maybe. Saddam was played all along and his actions provided the impetus for invasion.

Who cares of they want to balance power in the region. As long as they don't go too far it's within their right to exercise a policy that favors independent strategies over a US and West dominated political dilemma which is unpopular amongst Arabic people's as well.

Who says what they're willing to offer is more attractive to Arab nations?

Changing the dominatrix from one to another is not going to solve the regions ills.

Sometimes I wonder, if their suspected quest for nuclear weapons causes Arabic nations to restrategize and move towards making beneficial advances for their own people I like that. But, Iran is ahead in this game. They knew they would have to be dependent on their own missiles. If they prove to the world they can be self sufficient militarily this is what draws them further from military confrontation. They have their own guidance and strategy. It doesn't rely on actual western tactics or weapons. Now that they've reverse engineered many weapon systems it's only for their benefit.

The only threat Iran possesses is its ballistic missiles and the threat of nuclear armament. Conventionally they are no match for either the Israelis or any built up Arab nations. In order to catch up to said nations will take decades due to the sanctions placed upon them.

If what you say is true then I really don't understand you people...and this is coming from an Arab. It just sounds retarded.

As retarded as the Sunni vs Shia fights I see going on every single day on this forum. As a third party (Agnostic) I cant help but feel for the Umma which has been split ever since an Ottoman Khalif decided to label the Shias Khwarij in order to justify his imperial greed.

Shias can never do a thing which does not effect real islam in one way or other. their weapons are not for jews. remember they are cunning.

You need to differentiate between Jews and Zionists, they aren't mutually exclusive. The days of armament for war are over, we arm ourselves in case of war.
 
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Shias can never do a thing which does not effect real islam in one way or other. their weapons are not for jews. remember they are cunning.
And those of Israel are not for their neighbors either. Israel and Iran have a common threat, and is not the Arabic States...All that crap between Shia and Sunni is BS.
 
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Why would Egypt want ballistic missiles?

Strike Ethiopia strategic Assets and Dams if negotiations fail , Egypt already produces 1400 Km Ballistic missiles named Badr since 1995 , recently their Ballistic missile production and testing facility was upgraded with Chinese and North Korean Assistance.

If Russia agrees to sell their 2500 km new missile to Egypt then Egypt would effectively be capable of striking any part of Ethiopia apart from the fact a Russian/Egyptian Alliance would shield Egypt from UN sanctions in the event they strike Ethiopia .

This might explain why Egypt went down on Hamas recently so as to make Israel pressure US in future to remain neutral in the Event Egypt strikes Ethiopia. 
And those of Israel are not for their neighbors either. Israel and Iran have a common threat, and is not the Arabic States...All that crap between Shia and Sunni is BS.

Shia Sunni conflict will go on for decades , at some point Israel will rape lebanon and Syria once Sunnis and Shia completely exhaust each other out . 


Future wars in middle east will be over water resources
 
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Strike Ethiopia strategic Assets and Dams if negotiations fail , Egypt already produces 1400 Km Ballistic missiles named Badr since 1995 , recently their Ballistic missile production and testing facility was upgraded with Chinese and North Korean Assistance.

If Russia agrees to sell their 2500 km new missile to Egypt then Egypt would effectively be capable of striking any part of Ethiopia apart from the fact a Russian/Egyptian Alliance would shield Egypt from UN sanctions in the event they strike Ethiopia .

This might explain why Egypt went down on Hamas recently so as to make Israel pressure US in future to remain neutral in the Event Egypt strikes Ethiopia. 


Shia Sunni conflict will go on for decades , at some point Israel will rape lebanon and Syria once Sunnis and Shia completely exhaust each other out . 



Future wars in middle east will be over water resources

I think you might be right about Ethiopia, I wasn't considering that when I first came into this thread. I agree with frogman on some things as well.

I'm not sure how that relates to Hamas though. Egypt can get support on their own or get Saudi Arabia to pressure the US.

Egypt has diplomatic ties with Israel because they want to. Their people not so much. Either way I don't think Egypt should conduct itself in that manner.

What they're doing against Gaza, not just Hamas, they are strangling all citizens of the strip just because. There's no excuse to their actions. The Sinai is a result of their own policy against their own citizens.
 
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Future wars in middle east will be over water resources

Not the topic is it.

Civilizations that have prospered for thousands of years due to rivers won't be dieing off easily as you believe.
Besides, take on note groundwater, build all the dams you want and the ground will still be rich in water, then beside rivers there is seawater to desolate, how do you think the dry Arabian peninsula gets water ? If they can get water, are you really worrying yourself about fertile lands like Egypt Iraq Syria ?
 
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Not the topic is it.

Civilizations that have prospered for thousands of years due to rivers won't be dieing off easily as you believe.
Besides, take on note groundwater, build all the dams you want and the ground will still be rich in water, then beside rivers there is seawater to desolate, how do you think the dry Arabian peninsula gets water ? If they can get water, are you really worrying yourself about fertile lands like Egypt Iraq Syria ?


The Ruling Nahayan familly of UAE are descendants of Qarmatian Ismaili and Egypt was a centre of power for ismali during fatimid rule for around 500 years where famous ismali historical figures have been buried , they were the ones who founded and built the azhar .

The religious importance of Egypt for Nahayan family explains why UAE has 20 billion investment portfolio in Egypt .

The Druze for instance follow Al hakimb be amr allah who was an Egyptian fatimid ruler.

Syria and Iraq mean nothing to UAE ruling family , Egypt is for historical reasons to do with their own religious background
 
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The Ruling Nahayan familly of UAE are descendants of Qarmatian Ismaili and Egypt was a centre of power for ismali during fatimid rule for around 500 years where famous ismali historical figures have been buried , they were the ones who founded and built the azhar .
Offtopic.

The religious importance of Egypt for Nahayan family explains why UAE has 20 billion investment portfolio in Egypt & Egypt is for historical reasons to do with their own religious background
Nice to know that family owned UAE can use the money for personal pleasures.

The Druze for instance follow Al hakimb be amr allah who was an Egyptian fatimid ruler.
Ok.

Syria and Iraq mean nothing to UAE ruling family
We need them for what exactly ? sand ?
 
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