Russians better ally than Americans: Turkey may quit NATO

[KingWest]

The Ottoman Empire was in its last breath in the nineteenth century.
Then it was saved by the West, and then chose to ally itself with the West after WW2.
Maybe You will now claim now that Turkey alone would have beat the Soviet Union easily in 1946...

True, the reason why Turkey is in NATO is because Stalin threatened Turkey with an invasion after WW2

 

[what]

Why Turkey has to take sides and choose between two extremes? Be independent, leave NATO, that doesn't mean you have to join Russian camp, just don't be hostile to them.

America was blatantly involved in the failed regime change attempt in Turkey just recently. America and her allies are not saint either.

No one in the world can attack a NATO country. You get access to the best weapons etc too. Why would anyone want to trade that?

The Ottoman Empire was in its last breath in the nineteenth century.
Then it was saved by the West, and then chose to ally itself with the West after WW2.
Maybe You will now claim now that Turkey alone would have beat the Soviet Union easily in 1946...

First of all I doubt that they could have taken whole Turkey even as weak as the country was back then. Second I think the second there was a chance of that western Europe would have started arming the Ottomans.

No one in Europe or America wants to see Russians expanding especially not into the Mediterranean, not back then and not today.

 

[KingWest]

First of all I doubt that they could have taken whole Turkey even as weak as the country was back then. Second I think the second there was a chance of that western Europe would have started arming the Ottomans.

No one in Europe or America wants to see Russians expanding especially not into the Mediterranean, not back then and not today.

True, at the and of the 19th century. Everyone wanted a piece of the Ottoman lands. But the Brits could not afford the Russians to conquer Istanbul and gain access to the Mediterranean sea. If the Brits would be out of the picture, it is not farfetched to believe the Russians could occupy the whole Ottoman empire tho

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No one in the world can attack a NATO country. You get access to the best weapons etc too. Why would anyone want to trade that?



First of all I doubt that they could have taken whole Turkey even as weak as the country was back then. Second I think the second there was a chance of that western Europe would have started arming the Ottomans.

No one in Europe or America wants to see Russians expanding especially not into the Mediterranean, not back then and not today.

If Stalin occupied Turkey, he might consider deporting all Turks from Anatolia.
While the West ran some intelligence operations in the Warsaw Pact countries,
there was not an amazing success.
If the Soviet Union had control over todays Mediterranean and Black Sea coasts of Turkey,
I do not see there is much the West could do.

 

[Nefer]

If Stalin occupied Turkey, he might consider deporting all Turks from Anatolia.
While the West ran some intelligence operations in the Warsaw Pact countries,
there was not an amazing success.
If the Soviet Union had control over todays Mediterranean and Black Sea coasts of Turkey,
I do not see there is much the West could do.

You gave answer in a 1950s setting, While his argument is in the setting of 1850s.

And even in the 1950s setting, Stalin would not pursue beyond the straights, Unlike the eastern European nations Turkiye did not host a group of people ready to help Stalin from within Turkiye.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You gave answer in a 1950s setting, While his argument is in the setting of 1850s.

And even in the 1950s setting, Stalin would not pursue beyond the straights, Unlike the eastern European nations Turkiye did not host a group of people ready to help Stalin from within Turkiye.

I discussed both 1850 and 1950.
Stalin would invite people from other places to replace the deported Turks.

 

[LegionnairE]

Correction: Russians are a smaller pain in the arse.

We need to stop being naive and accept the fact that we don't have allies.

I dont care about your feelings about Russia and I dont want to even start about the negatives connected to an alliance with Russia and our relations to Europe and the EU. Russia does not regard PKK or YPG as terrorists, Americans do but try to act like YPG is different (while FBI, CIA acknowledge it).

Russia has supported PKK in the past.

Russia is supporting Armenia, Southern Cyprus.

Russia is occupying Crimea and parts of Georgia, this is a security matter for Turkey.

Russia violates Turkish airspace in the Black Sea from time to time.


Russia cannot be a Turkish ally, its just wishful thinking at best.

This.

To this day Russia doesn't recognize PKK as a terrorist organization.

Have you ever asked yourself. Is Turkey a trustable ally?

What? in what way Turkey has wronged America?

did we start a war in their backyard, say, Mexico?

With the current political chaos and with erdog. at the helm yes I can see that people may have some concerns about Turkey but in no way it can be as tracherous as its "allies"

 

[Nefer]

I discussed both 1850 and 1950.
Stalin would invite people from other places to replace the deported Turks.

First of he said

I think the second there was a chance of that western Europe would have started arming the Ottomans

Which is rich in its own right.

But what I said with regards to 1950 where I think you did not get my point.
During that era after WW2, the reason why countries like Yugoslavia, Hungary, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria joined the USSR. Is because they had an organized group of communists which were a majority part of the local resistance against the Nazi's. So after the WW2 those who were in the resistance got to power. This is why the East block turned Red.

Turkiye at that time had no such problem. And thus Stalin's army would have to fight in a terrain which was unfamiliar to theirs and we saw how that ended up a.k.a as Finland. And the deeper Stalin would like to go into Anatolia, The more equipment and manpower losses it will get, because Turkiye does not have the terrain which is suitable for their way of warfare. Also in literature the soviets planned to avoid a direct confrontation with Iran and Turkiye(besides the straights) probably for these reason, so instead they worked on educating subversive elements for those countries to make the country turn red in time and from within.

 

[LegionnairE]

First of he said


Which is rich in its own right.

But what I said with regards to 1950 where I think you did not get my point.
During that era after WW2, the reason why countries like Yugoslavia, Hungary, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria joined the USSR. Is because they had an organized group of communists which were a majority part of the local resistance against the Nazi's. So after the WW2 those who were in the resistance got to power. This is why the East block turned Red.

Turkiye at that time had no such problem. And thus Stalin's army would have to fight in a terrain which was unfamiliar to theirs and we saw how that ended up a.k.a as Finland. And the deeper Stalin would like to go into Anatolia, The more equipment and manpower losses it will get, because Turkiye does not have the terrain which is suitable for their way of warfare. Also in literature the soviets planned to avoid a direct confrontation with Iran and Turkiye(besides the straights) probably for these reason, so instead they worked on educating subversive elements for those countries to make the country turn red in time and from within.

You know that the USSR won the winter war despite the high casualities right?

 

[Nefer]

You know that the USSR won the winter war despite the high casualities right?

Yes, but with a 5 to 1 Causality rate and even though Finland lost, this did not mean that the Finland became part of the USSR, it lost territory and Finland itself continued to exist.

edit: and not to mention the tank loses

20-30 vs 1000-1200

 

[LegionnairE]

Yes, but with a 5 to 1 Causality rate and even though Finland lost, this did not mean that the Finland became part of the USSR, it lost territory and Finland itself continued to exist.

edit: and not to mention the tank loses

20-30 vs 1000-1200

fair enough

 

[HariPrasad]

So when Pakistan violates Indian arispace and India shoots the plane down does it make India the provocateur?
Is that how things go in India?

If That Was The Case Then Why Turkay Appologized?

 

[SALMAN F]

I dont care about your feelings about Russia and I dont want to even start about the negatives connected to an alliance with Russia and our relations to Europe and the EU. Russia does not regard PKK or YPG as terrorists, Americans do but try to act like YPG is different (while FBI, CIA acknowledge it).

Russia has supported PKK in the past.

Russia is supporting Armenia, Southern Cyprus.

Russia is occupying Crimea and parts of Georgia, this is a security matter for Turkey.

Russia violates Turkish airspace in the Black Sea from time to time.


Russia cannot be a Turkish ally, its just wishful thinking at best.

Russia have the right to support Cyrus against the turkish aggression same with Armenia

As for Crimea Russia doesn't occupy sh!t it's slavic european christian lands historically and geographically

 

[Melkor]

Russia have the right to support Cyrus against the turkish aggression same with Armenia

As for Crimea Russia doesn't occupy sh!t it's slavic european christian lands historically and geographically

What a load of Horse Sh!t.

 

[SALMAN F]

What a load of Horse Sh!t.

What did I say was wrong?!