What's new

Russian 'Stealth Destroyer' Just a Sales Gimmick?

DarK-LorD

BANNED
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
1,753
Reaction score
0
Russian 'Stealth Destroyer' Just a Sales Gimmick?
By Jeremy A. Kaplan
Published October 15, 2011

| FoxNews.com


Russia plans to begin constructing a new generation of "stealth" destroyers in 2012 that will form the backbone of the combat power of Russia's surface fleet, Russian newspaper Pravda reported.

But since much of Russia's income comes from arms sales and exports, that new stealth technology might be simply hype designed to sell boats, Thomas Fedyszyn, director of the Europe-Russia Studies Group at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, R.I. said.

"They're trying to sell this to India, Vietnam, Indonesia … as marketers, they would per force be required to make statements like this," he told FoxNews.com. (His opinions are his own, not that of the Naval War College, the academy noted.)

"The vast majority of warships built today boast stealthy features to one degree or another," agreed James Holmes, a fellow professor at the Naval War College specializing in Asian sea power. The U.S. has built stealthier ships for two decades, he said.

"Russia is already building stealthy ships for the Indian Navy," he told FoxNews.com.

The news echoes the August unveiling of Russia's first stealth fighter -- nearly two decades after the F-22 Raptor​ was unveiled, the first U.S. prototype stealth jet. Russia similarly described that plane as "the backbone" of the Russian air force, and of India's.

"Russia's cooperation with India on this project will help it promote the fifth-generation jet on the foreign market," Mikhail Pogosyan, president of United Aircraft Corporation, the state aviation holding company, told the RIA Novosti news agency.


Pravda nevertheless touted the technical might planned for the stealth destroyer: Over the next 20 years, the country plans to build 14 to 16 of the new destroyers, which will be outfitted with a variety of weapons, including anti-ships missiles, anti-submarine torpedoes, and cruise and anti-aircraft missiles. And it could replace three different types of vessel.

"It will leave behind large-anti-submarine ships with the help of state-of-the-art hardware. Its assault and anti-aircraft performance will outstrip present-day destroyers and guided-missile cruisers," a source from the Russian defense industry told Russian language newspaper Izvestia.

U.S. experts were less enthusiastic.

"I'm not persuaded that they will revolutionize surface warfare," Fedyszyn told FoxNews.com. "It's probably not a revolutionary stealth technology that makes them invisible to all things at all times," he said.

Russia does consider its navy a symbol of national pride and prestige, Holmes pointed out, clearly a second key motive behind the stealth boat hype.

How stealthy can a 10,000-ton ship be?

The sheer size of such a vessel would make it nearly impossible to make it absolutely invisible to every sensor, experts agreed. The improvements to the new Russian ships -- the exact type of stealth technology was not described -- were likely evolutionary tweaks similar to those put in place by other navies.

Every manufacturer making ships today is adding "stealth" technologies, from rubberized gaskets that silence pumps to softer, less-reflective angles to new materials that absorb radar signals rather than bounce them back.

"Everyone who's building ships these days is changing angles so they don't become radar beacons," Fedyszyn told FoxNews.com. "We build them stealthier than we used to build them."

Another form of stealth lies in heat dissipation. Modern stacks are designed to be cooler than they were made 25 years ago, when manufacturers simply didn't think about preventing a ship from showing up on infrared sensors.

"You have to have a much more powerful radar to pick up a 21st century destroyer than a 20th century destroyer," Fedyszyn added.

Ingalls Shipbuilding, the largest manufacturer of Arleigh Burke​ class destroyers for the U.S. Navy, has built several tweaks into the latest boats to boost stealth. A spokesman for Ingalls declined FoxNews.com requests for more information.

Invisibility technology is being built into countless military vehicles as well, notably the "invisible tank" being built by BAE Systems. One of the ways that company makes its tanks hide is Adaptiv -- an armor encasing that looks and feels as one imagines a dragon's scales to -- which turns tanks into chameleons, allowing them to disappear into the environment behind them.

That's easy to add to a tank. It's tougher on a destroyer.

"Could they also put in a completely radar absorbent material? Very unlikely," Fedyszyn told FoxNews.com.

The U.S. navy planned a next-generation destroyer of its own; called the Zumwalt class or DDG 1000, it was designed to be even stealthier than current generation destroyers -- and was largely cancelled due to cost overruns.

But that hasn't stopped shipmakers from quieting vessels and limited radar cross sections in every new generation.

"This isn't as big a story as the Pravda piece lets on. We've been incorporating stealth features for twenty years," Holmes told FoxNews.com

Read more: Russian 'Stealth Destroyer' Just A Sales Gimmick? | Fox News
 
.
Ok few problems with this Pravda ??? the Russian propaganda newspaper :cheesy: , whats next Russia with a Flying Stealth Tank with Lasers come on now.
 
.
Ok few problems with this Pravda ??? the Russian propaganda newspaper :cheesy: , whats next Russia with a Flying Stealth Tank with Lasers come on now.

What you doubt Russias ability to build Stealth Destroyers? Worlds leading navy's already build Stealth corvettes, so what the problem of building a Destroyers the only difference is that its a lot bigger.
 
. .
I mean whats the Hype

Even India is Building Stealth destroyers like the Kolkata class
Kolkata class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the point is that 7000 Ton Kokata class Will have the RCS of 1900 Ton Sukanya class , but it will not be invisible ,
It will just fool the enemy into thinking that it is facing a corvette or OPV and not a Destroyer
 
.
I mean whats the Hype

Even India is Building Stealth destroyers like the Kolkata class
Kolkata class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the point is that 7000 Ton Kokata class Will have the RCS of 1900 Ton Sukanya class , but it will not be invisible ,
It will just fool the enemy into thinking that it is facing a corvette or OPV and not a Destroyer

According to your own source the Kolkata will have some signature reduction features, but its not a fully fledged stealth ship.

The Kolkata class of guided-missile destroyers of the Indian Navy were conceptualized under Project 15A, and include land-attack capability as well as some signature reduction features.
 
.
According to your own source the Kolkata will have some signature reduction features, but its not a fully fledged stealth ship.

Well Kolkata class was Designed to have 60% Lower RCS than the 5000 Ton Rajput class , which it is meant to replace

Also something like the American Zumwait Class DDG 1000 cost like 3 Billion USD , which is 4 times the cost of Kolkata class
 
. .
...materials that absorb radar signals rather than bounce them back.
This is more true to ships than to aircrafts. The author unintentionally mislead the readers a little bit here with that 'bounce them back' phrasing.

Keep in mind that radar detection is essentially a stochastical process, fancy phrasing for statistics. The longer and more steady (constant) the target, the greater the certainty of determination at any frequency used and IN LESS TIME. Because an aircraft is a much more dynamic target than a steady ship, and in 3d versus 2d at that, the aircraft will benefit more from reflective and surface wave behavior controlling techniques than from absorbers. A ship is confined to a 2d environment, any impinging radar pulse train, say 100 pulses for example, will have a greater percentage of pulses inside this train reflected off the ship and made it back to the seeking radar with relatively predictable energy level per reflected pulse, in-phase, and Doppler characteristics, hence absorber will matter more on a ship.

The goal of 'stealth' is NEVER to bounce any signal back to the seeking radar, as in allowing the seeking radar to pick up these reflected signals. The goal is to either bounce them AWAY from source direction or absorb the impinging signal completely. The latter is not yet possible so it is a combination of absorption of some of the pulse's energy and bounce the rest away from source direction.

That is why the new Zumwalt class will have the RCS of a small tourist charter fishing boat. :tup:
 
.
how do you 'BOUNCE' radar signals away from a ship... ?
 
.
how do you 'BOUNCE' radar signals away from a ship... ?
I think you misunderstood me. The ship is bouncing REFLECTED signals away from the seeking radar's position. Remember, radar detection depends on reflections (or reflected signals) that came from a target. So if there is no detection of those reflected signals, there is no radar detection. If the target does not bounce (or reflect) anything at all, like a vampire in front of a mirror, then there is no radar detection.
 
.
So, you dont bounce the signals away from the ship, you change the angle of deflection so to say?
 
.
So, you dont bounce the signals away from the ship, you change the angle of deflection so to say?
Yes. That technique is called 'angled facetings' and you can see that technique most prominently on the F-117, less so on the current generation like the F-22, which as some 'angled facetings', but not as much.
 
.
Yes. That technique is called 'angled facetings' and you can see that technique most prominently on the F-117, less so on the current generation like the F-22, which as some 'angled facetings', but not as much.

Yeah, the F-117 did have very sharp solid angles and plane surfaces, the F-22 is MUCH more curvy than the Nighthawk.
 
.
"The vast majority of warships built today boast stealthy features to one degree or another," agreed James Holmes, a fellow professor at the Naval War College specializing in Asian sea power.
True. This is what a ship look like according to ONE method of measurements, of which there are many, that calculate total RCS...

ship_radar_image.jpg


Each feature on a ship, from a simple flat plate to the stairs to the doors to the smokestack, is called a 'contributor'. The method of measurement give us an estimate of reflected energy and each method of measurement has its advantages and disadvantages.

For a relatively 'steady state' target like a ship, what is called 'specular reflections' measurement from 'flat plates'...

direct_sing_refl.jpg


...Does yield reasonably accurate final estimation of target size.

The goal then is to reduce and/or eliminate as much 'flat plate' style contributors as possible, forcing the seeking radar to switch to other methods of measurements, which brings their own disadvantages, which make final RCS estimation difficult.

And this is why the Zumwalt class ship will have the RCS of a small tourist charter fishing boat. :tup:
 
.
Back
Top Bottom