Russian Officials Reveal J-31 Engine and Describe Sales to China

[SpArK]

Russian Officials Reveal J-31 Engine and Describe Sales to China​

Russia has completed deliveries of 100 of the RD-93 engine under a framework agreement for 500.

November 23, 2012, 8:00 AM


China’s recently flown second stealth fighter is powered by a pair of Russian-supplied Klimov RD-93 turbofans, AIN has learned. A large model of the design, which has been dubbed the J-31 in unofficial reports, was on display at Airshow China in Zhuhai last week, labeled as “an advanced multi-role fighter for the international defense market.” Russian officials at the show described the supply of military turbofans to China in some detail.


Speculation that the new fighter uses Russian powerplants was confirmed by Vladimir Barkovsky, deputy general director of the Russian Aircraft Corp. “MIG” and head of its engineering center named after Artyem Mikoyan. Although he mentioned certain design flaws, Barkovsky gave a generally positive general assessment for the new Avic fighter design. “It looks like a good machine, and although it obviously has some design solutions already tried on the U.S. fifth-generation fighters, it is not a copy but a well done indigenous design,” he told AIN.

Barkovsky expressed regrets over the Russian MoD’s decision not to develop a next-generation lightweight fighter, saying that it may lead to Russia losing out in this distinct market segment. RAC MiG’s most recent MiG-29M2 and its exportable derivative the MiG-35D, belong to the 4++ generation, he explained. Barkovsky further said that the Chinese fighter manufacturers have achieved notable progress with durability and reparability of their products. They have also improved their after-sales support system, which was deplorable a few years ago, he added.

Sergei Kornev, head of the aviation department of Rosonboronexport, told journalists at Airshow China 2012 that, with help from Belarussian advisors and specialized companies, the Chinese fighter manufacturers have managed to create a workable system of after-sales support. For its part, he continued, Russia has sold to China the documentation on overhaul and lifecycle support of the AL-31F series engines and helped it establish a well functioning system for keeping them serviceable.

Kornev added that during the next meeting of the Sino-Russian interstate committee for military-technical cooperation, which opened on November 21, Moscow and Beijing are expected to sign a number of agreements relating to intellectual property rights. Kornev said that this should further ease the transfer of Russian knowledge and expertise in the sphere of combat aviation and its after-sales support.

Engines account for more than 90 percent of all Russian aerospace exports to China. “In the past two years, we have signed large contracts with China for several hundred additional engines of the AL-31F, AL-31FN and D-30KP2 types. Shipments are now ongoing,” Kornev said. The D-30KP2 powers the Ilyushin Il-76 transport, while the AL-31 family powers the Su-27/30/34 series of combat aircraft, and the Chinese J-11 derivative. In addition, Russia has delivered improved performance AL-31FN Series 3 and later turbofans for China’s indigenous J-10 fighter.

Asked whether Russia has assisted China in its development of the WS-10A Tai Hang engine that is broadly similar to the AL-31F, Kornev answered that Russian specialists have not been briefed on this design and that Russia has never delivered AL-31F design documentation to China. Regarding the RD-93, which China mainly uses to power the JF-17 (FC-1) fighter, Kornev said that Russia has completed deliveries of 100 of the engine under a framework agreement for 500. Negotiations on the next batch are ongoing. “All juridical formalities regarding new sales are agreed upon; our negotiations are purely about commercial aspects, including price,” he insisted.


Russian Officials Reveal J-31 Engine and Describe Sales to China | Aviation International News

 

[帅的一匹]

Quite normal, RD93 is a good one to go for before WS13 is ready.

Russia will provide enough engines to help China go through the difficult transition.

 

[Kompromat]

Quite normal, RD93 is a good one to go for before WS13 is ready.

Russia will provide enough engines to help China go through the difficult transition.

Atleast 200Kn thrust is needed to get the most out of J-31.

 

[Audio]

lol @ this news.

 

[isro2222]

Its good news.... Defence is must for peace.... However russia has no right questioning relation between india and america. they saying china not enemy of india.... We should say america no enemy of russia.... i understand russia want to do bussiness and so do america and india needs weapons to ensure peace at both side of our borders....

 

[jackyy]

 

[MilSpec]

Still no engine.... I was hoping chinese would be able to achieve it by now, they have a very respectable aeronautical infrastructure.

 

[Hobo1]

After spending billions of dollars still no where and that to coming from nation which is at least 2 decades ahead of India and has no respect of International IP rights. And not to forget nation which takes development of its indigenous military industry thousand times more seriously than India does.
Must say this is a very poor showing by China as far development of engines for fighter planes are concerned.

 

[Beast]

After spending billions of dollars still no where and that to coming from nation which is at least 2 decades ahead of India and has no respect of International IP rights. And not to forget nation which takes development of its indigenous military industry thousand times more seriously than India does.
Must say this is a very poor showing by China as far development of engines for fighter planes are concerned.

Really???

At least we have our WS-10A powering half of our flanker fleet and J-10B prototype.

As for the 100 RD-93 engines, its for the PAF JF-17, nothing to do with J-31. There is no way RD-93 will feed the operational J-31 becos its under power. The operational J-31 will definitely fitted with domestic WS-13 which provide at least 9500kg of thrust.

As for military IP right. Every country is guilty of copying other countries military stuff. India with their INSAS rifle and Russian copy American B-29. American copy sweden Bofor guns. Dont try to say like India is the only saint.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

After spending billions of dollars still no where and that to coming from nation which is at least 2 decades ahead of India and has no respect of International IP rights. And not to forget nation which takes development of its indigenous military industry thousand times more seriously than India does.
Must say this is a very poor showing by China as far development of engines for fighter planes are concerned.

Its still too early Indian comrade.
No shame in using whats currently available and simply trying ones best.

 

[MilSpec]

Really???

At least we have our WS-10A powering half of our flanker fleet and J-10B prototype.

As for the 100 RD-93 engines, its for the PAF JF-17, nothing to do with J-31. There is no way RD-93 will feed the operational J-31 becos its under power. The operational J-31 will definitely fitted with domestic WS-13 which provide at least 9500kg of thrust.

As for military IP right. Every country is guilty of copying other countries military stuff. India with their INSAS rifle and Russian copy American B-29. American copy sweden Bofor guns. Dont try to say like India is the only saint.

If WS 10 is opearional why import Al31F, if WS 13 is operational why are FC1 still flying RD33?
you can post as many images you want but,

Chengdu J-10 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN
Shenyang J-11 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN
Xian JH-7 powered by Rolls-Royce Spey Mk 202
Shenyang J-8 powered by twin Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet
Chengdu J-7 powered by Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet
Xian H-6 powered by Mikulin AM-3
Hongdu JL8 powered by Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan
Hongdu L-15 powered by 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans
Harbin Y-12 powered by 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-27 turboprop
Shaanxi Y-8 powered by 4 x License-built copy of the Turbomeca Turmo
Xian H-6 powered by 2 x Mikulin AM-3
J31 powered by 2 x Rd 33
J20 Powered by 2 x Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN

 

[Beast]

If WS 10 is opearional why import Al31F, if WS 13 is operational why are FC1 still flying RD33?
you can post as many images you want but,

Chengdu J-10 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN
Shenyang J-11 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN
Xian JH-7 powered by Rolls-Royce Spey Mk 202
Shenyang J-8 powered by twin Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet
Chengdu J-7 powered by Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet
Xian H-6 powered by Mikulin AM-3
Hongdu JL8 powered by Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan
Hongdu L-15 powered by 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans
Harbin Y-12 powered by 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-27 turboprop
Shaanxi Y-8 powered by 4 x License-built copy of the Turbomeca Turmo
Xian H-6 powered by 2 x Mikulin AM-3
J31 powered by 2 x Rd 33
J20 Powered by 2 x Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN

Or rather, its Indian who can't faces the reality China can produced 4th generation modern turbofan? Show me real photo of Kaveri engine powering any jet. I will eat back my words.

Al-31F are imported to replace the old engine on Russian maker flanker like the Su-27SK imported earlier and Su-30MKK and MKK2. The fact WS-10A is not a copy of AL-31F makes direct interchanging of the engines impossible without some modification without incurring costs..

Our WS-10A production indeed did not hit the optimum production rate. At least this engine is working and powering decent many planes as prove by my pictures. Priority of domestic engine will goes to new plane. Old Flanker will need to get russki engine.

If our engine is not working. How do you see so many pictures of our flanker flying in WS-10A? Magic???

Ws-13 originally is not a prority engne. It is meant for PAF JF-17. With J-31, development might speed up. As for J-31 to enter PLAAF service, it definitely need to use higher thrust engine which is other than WS-13. Tell me how do we need 100 engine for prototype running? The title is misled by an Indian who try to spread false rumour.

And you have a terrible knowleadge of Chinese aviation. J-7 is power by WP-13 which is an domestic engine.. See we can export it to any countries we want without Russia veto it..

JH-7A is now powered by WS-9.. since the British can't supply us anymore engine with EU embargo.

J-8II is also using WP-13 domestic engine. No issue.
JL-8 is powered by WS-11 domestic . PAF request american engine and we give them for their JL-8... PLAAF version uses WS-11.

Our J-20 prototype is power by WS-10G(does the engine petal looks anything like AL-31FN?). Only the initial ground testing type is powered by AL-31FN.

 

[seven7seven]

If WS 10 is opearional why import Al31F, if WS 13 is operational why are FC1 still flying RD33?
you can post as many images you want but,

Chengdu J-10 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN
Shenyang J-11 powered by Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN
Xian JH-7 powered by Rolls-Royce Spey Mk 202
Shenyang J-8 powered by twin Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet
Chengdu J-7 powered by Chinese variant of Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet
Xian H-6 powered by Mikulin AM-3
Hongdu JL8 powered by Garrett TFE731-2A-2A turbofan
Hongdu L-15 powered by 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans
Harbin Y-12 powered by 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-27 turboprop
Shaanxi Y-8 powered by 4 x License-built copy of the Turbomeca Turmo
Xian H-6 powered by 2 x Mikulin AM-3
J31 powered by 2 x Rd 33
J20 Powered by 2 x Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN

I think nobody will argue that jet engines is the final missing link in China's fighter jet development. However, the progress China has made in recent years is evident with the newest J-11s fielding the WS-10 engines. The fact that many of the newest J-11s are flying with the WS-10s show that it is a reasonably matured engine albeit needs further testing and calibrating to optimise its performance and reliability. I think in the coming year we will see the ramping up of WS-10 production to meet demand for new J-11s.

The existing orders for AL-31FN and RD-33 are primarily to service the existing J-10s and PAF's JF-17, respectively. The use of Russian engines fill the void in available engines until China mature all their engine projects (WS-10A, WS-13, WS-15 and WS-18). China are still a few years away from being able to put them into their stealth fighters but development looks to be steady and I would expect within five to seven years that all indigenous Chinese fighters will be ran on indigenous engines. To be able to produce engines with performance that compete with American and Russian engines would be quite an achievement for an airforce who only a couple of decades ago were in the backwaters of aerospace development.

I predict in a decade or two, Russia and China will be entering into joint ventures to jointly develop a whole array of weapons systems, by combining their resources to better compete against the US and Europe. No matter how distasteful the idea of a Chinese military superpower seems to be to some people, China are already entering the realm of the big boys with regards to military tech and their position will only become more prominent in the coming years.

 

[MilSpec]

Or rather, its Indian who can't faces the reality China can produced 4th generation modern turbofan? Show me real photo of Kaveri engine powering any jet. I will eat back my words.

The discussion is not about kaveri engine, China has a respectable aeronautical industry, It's expected to have it's own engines.

Al-31F are imported to replace the old engine on Russian maker flanker like the Su-27SK imported earlier and Su-30MKK and MKK2. The fact WS-10A is not a copy of AL-31F makes direct interchanging of the engines impossible without some modification without incurring costs..

So are you saying j10's are not compatible with ws10 as they are not interchangeble

Our WS-10A production indeed did not hit the optimum production rate. At least this engine is working and powering decent many planes as prove by my pictures. Priority of domestic engine will goes to new plane. Old Flanker will need to get russki engine.

what about Ws 13, why is j31 flying with rd33?

If our engine is not working. How do you see so many pictures of our flanker flying in WS-10A? Magic???

and still you are using al31F says a lot

Ws-13 originally is not a prority engne. It is meant for PAF JF-17. With J-31, development might speed up. As for J-31 to enter PLAAF service, it definitely need to use higher thrust engine which is other than WS-13. Tell me how do we need 100 engine for prototype running? The title is misled by an Indian who try to spread false rumour.

What? now thats news for me, you have a order book of 250 FC1's from pakistan, where the engine is russian, airframe is chinese, and apparently most of other components are manufactured by pakistanis, with a potential for 200 aircraft, there is no priority to develop WS13.

And you have a terrible knowleadge of Chinese aviation. J-7 is power by WP-13 which is an domestic engine.. See we can export it to any countries we want without Russia veto it..

Guizhou WP-13 - A Chinese engine based on the Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet.

JH-7A is now powered by WS-9.. since the British can't supply us anymore engine with EU embargo.

Xian WS-9 Qinling - Licensed version of Rolls-Royce Spey RB.168 Mk 202

J-8II is also using WP-13 domestic engine. No issue.

as I said before

L-8 is powered by WS-11 domestic . PAF request american engine and we give them for their JL-8... PLAAF version uses WS-11.

Why would PAF request for an american engine?

Our J-20 prototype is power by WS-10G(does the engine petal looks anything like AL-31FN?). Only the initial ground testing type is powered by AL-31FN.

So even in prototype you used a russian engine which is in your own words no interchangeable with ws10, seems like a very poor way to develop prototypes.

I have no issues with chinese development, i hope and wish that you guys become aeronautical giants superseding american and the Russians. there needs to be a little more clarity about your designs. If you have made something brilliant like ws10 and ws 13 go ahead and release the information and specs, instead of blotchy pics from some cell phone and recognition with counting exhaust petals.

 

[seven7seven]

It is laughable that a darky Indian has such audacity to defame China’s aviation industry when this 4th world country cannot ever fathom to produce anything remotely equivalent to the WS-10 series of engines nor fighters like J-10A/B, Jh-7a, J-31, J-20. This is like a homeless bum on the streets mocking a Wall Street trader for his Condo on west side rather than having a Mansion with marble floors in the burbs.

Come on now, I ask again where is the credibility of an inferior Indian to ever mock Chinese engines and fighters? Where are these mighty mythical beasts powering their domestic fighter(s)? All I see is their one single junk engine that needs to be tested in Russia or was it cancelled already that was suppose to power their single junk Mig 21 replacement that is still nonoperational after 40 years.

All those pics of Ws10s powering domestic Chinese domestic flankers and future J-10s, 31s, 20s is an unimaginable dream for lowly dark skinny Indians who after 4 decades of racial inferiority and incompetence cannot even get a crappy Mig 21 replacement in operational level like the lowly JF-17 which China only exports.

The US and Russians maybe can mock China for its recent development history in the engine and fighter departments since they have been producing quality engines for decades with equivalent material science industry, QA, R/D, etc. But guess what hardly any Americans nor Russians comment nor instigate such slander on China’s aviation industry even when they have some credibility to do so. But why is it lowly inferior Indians are always commenting like they are our equals? Need I give the answer? . . . . Systematic racial inferiority based on facts or perception

Again, who the fook in the world gives a shiet about the opinion of that homeless bum just like who the fook in the world gives a rats asss about Indians and their racial inferiority derived baseless opinions in the defense sector??
A lowly Indian talking about Ws-10s, my God what has the world come to?

Keep the discussion civil mate. No need for the racial inferences to skin colour.

I know it must be frustrating to read Indians bash Chinese progress at every opportunity when they gauge China's development against US and Russian systems and deem it to be a failure if China do not meet the highest standards set by the US and Russia. These comparisons are ridiculous and unfair and can be seen by anyone who has an unbiased view. A lot neutral observers who don't have an anti-China agenda have nothing but respect for the progress China has made economically and technologically. Don't get worked up by negative comments. China is progressing well so good going China!