Russian military outguns UK army in battle: Report

[nadeemkhan110]

Russian military outguns UK army in battle: Report

A leaked report indicates concerns among British commanders over the UK Army's ability to counter Russia in a battle.

The UK army will be outgunned by Russian armed forces in the event of a battle, top British commanders have warned in a leaked report, raising questions about the British military’s real capabilities.

According to the “official-sensitive” document, which was produced in March under the direction of General Sir Nick Carter, Russian military forces hold a “significant capability edge” over the UK army and are equipped with more advanced technologies, British daily The Timesreported Wednesday.

Russia is in possession of more sophisticated rocket launchers and air defense systems, the report noted, adding that the UK’s planned £3.5 billion fleet of lightly armored vehicles were “disproportionately vulnerable” to Russian mortar and rocket fire.

Russia said in May that it expects to receive the first examples of its domestically-built S-500 air and missile defense systems. The system can reportedly engage hypersonic targets at altitudes of about 201km (125 miles), a significant upgrade over the S-400.

Russian S-400 air defense missile systems roll at Red Square during the Victory Day military parade in Moscow, May 9, 2016. (AFP photo)
This is while the British army’s primary air defense system, Rapier, has been in service for 35 years and will be deployed until 2020. Rapier missiles have an operational range of 8.2km (5 miles) and can hit targets at latitudes of up to 5 km (3 miles).

The paper refers to Russia’s BM-30 Smerch multiple rocket launcher as another example of Russia’s superiority. It has a range of 90km (56 miles) — outranging the nearest British equivalent by 30km.

The leaked report also warned that Russia’s mastery of electronic warfare technologies such as jamming and hacking was a “real game changer” and posed a threat to NATO aircraft, GPS-guided weapons and the ability of soldiers on the ground.

“What we get from successive governments has been that it is all fine and dandy and ‘aren’t we doing well’,” General Sir Richard Shirreff, Britain’s former top officer in NATO, said. “Actually, the reality is that our capability has been dramatically hollowed out.”

The assessments go against UK Defense Minister Michael Fallon, who told MPs in May that UK and NATO’s armed forces were ready to “face up to any kind of threat in the future”

Tensions between Russia and NATO have been running high over the past months, due to the US-led alliance’s military buildup on Russian borders.
Source: http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/08/10/479418/Russia-UK-military

 

[M.SAAD]

As if Uk military gonna be on its own in a war against Russia ..

 

[ebrahym]

Russian military outguns UK army in battle: Report

A leaked report indicates concerns among British commanders over the UK Army's ability to counter Russia in a battle.

The UK army will be outgunned by Russian armed forces in the event of a battle, top British commanders have warned in a leaked report, raising questions about the British military’s real capabilities.

According to the “official-sensitive” document, which was produced in March under the direction of General Sir Nick Carter, Russian military forces hold a “significant capability edge” over the UK army and are equipped with more advanced technologies, British daily The Timesreported Wednesday.

Russia is in possession of more sophisticated rocket launchers and air defense systems, the report noted, adding that the UK’s planned £3.5 billion fleet of lightly armored vehicles were “disproportionately vulnerable” to Russian mortar and rocket fire.

Russia said in May that it expects to receive the first examples of its domestically-built S-500 air and missile defense systems. The system can reportedly engage hypersonic targets at altitudes of about 201km (125 miles), a significant upgrade over the S-400.

Russian S-400 air defense missile systems roll at Red Square during the Victory Day military parade in Moscow, May 9, 2016. (AFP photo)
This is while the British army’s primary air defense system, Rapier, has been in service for 35 years and will be deployed until 2020. Rapier missiles have an operational range of 8.2km (5 miles) and can hit targets at latitudes of up to 5 km (3 miles).

The paper refers to Russia’s BM-30 Smerch multiple rocket launcher as another example of Russia’s superiority. It has a range of 90km (56 miles) — outranging the nearest British equivalent by 30km.

The leaked report also warned that Russia’s mastery of electronic warfare technologies such as jamming and hacking was a “real game changer” and posed a threat to NATO aircraft, GPS-guided weapons and the ability of soldiers on the ground.

“What we get from successive governments has been that it is all fine and dandy and ‘aren’t we doing well’,” General Sir Richard Shirreff, Britain’s former top officer in NATO, said. “Actually, the reality is that our capability has been dramatically hollowed out.”

The assessments go against UK Defense Minister Michael Fallon, who told MPs in May that UK and NATO’s armed forces were ready to “face up to any kind of threat in the future”

Tensions between Russia and NATO have been running high over the past months, due to the US-led alliance’s military buildup on Russian borders.
Source: http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/08/10/479418/Russia-UK-military

just a stunt to get more budget

 

[nadeemkhan110]

just a stunt to get more budget

If we compare Military power of Russia and UK

Active Military personnel Russia 766,055 UK 150,000
Reserves: Russia 2,485000 UK 182,000
total air crafts: Russia 3,547 UK 879
helicopters: Russia 1,237 348
tanks strength: Russia 15,398 UK 407
aircraft carriers: Russia 1 UK 1
Submarines: Russia 60 UK 10
Frigates Russia 4 UK 13
destroyers Russia 15 UK 6
Corvettes: Russia 81 UK 0
Defense Budget annual: 69.3 billion UK 56 Billion

 

[ebrahym]

If we compare Military power of Russia and UK

Active Military personnel Russia 766,055 UK 150,000
Reserves: Russia 2,485000 UK 182,000
total air crafts: Russia 3,547 UK 879
helicopters: Russia 1,237 348
tanks strength: Russia 15,398 UK 407
aircraft carriers: Russia 1 UK 1
Submarines: Russia 60 UK 10
Frigates Russia 4 UK 13
destroyers Russia 15 UK 6
Corvettes: Russia 81 UK 0
Defense Budget annual: 69.3 billion UK 56 Billion

unlike UK russia has two whole continents as an enemy

 

[Blue Marlin]

its the quality of the weapons that count not the numbers.
but in this case david has been negligent here.

 

[Henry ME 95]

Obviously the Russians could easily defeat the U.K alone. The issue is the U.K will not be alone.
the French, German, Italian, spanish, polish etc armed forces will all be coming to the U.K's aid.
along with the US army.. this makes it far more difficult for the Russians to pull out a victory.

 

[Penguin]

esday.
Russia is in possession of more sophisticated rocket launchers and air defense systems, the report noted, adding that the UK’s planned £3.5 billion fleet of lightly armored vehicles were “disproportionately vulnerable” to Russian mortar and rocket fire.

Really? Oh, I see, it is PressTV. Let's have a look.

The Future Rapid Effect System was a planned family of medium-weight armoured vehicles intended to replace the CVR(T) series of vehicles. This has been replaced by the Scout SV known as "Ajax" in British service and its variants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_of_the_British_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(Scout_SV)

The MoD has a requirement for a new multi role vehicle under the Multi Role Vehicle-Protected (MRV-P) requirement with main gate expected in 2017. At DSEI 2015 General Dynamics UK announced that they would offer variants of their Ocelot (Foxhound) and Eagle vehicles for the requirement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_of_the_British_Army
Multi Role Vehicle-Protected (MRV-P) is a programme to deliver future wheeled utility and logistics for the British Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_Role_Vehicle-Protected

GD Ocelot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocelot_(vehicle)

GD/Mowag Eagle

https://www.gdels.com/products/wheeled_2.asp

In September 2015, IHS Janes reported that General Dynamics offered two different variants for the MRV-P programme. One was the General Dynamics European Land Systems Mowag Eagle Vs in the 4x4 and 6x6 configurations. Another option was the General Dynamics Land Systems UK (previously Force Protection) Ocelot 4x4 which was already in British Army service. In June 2016, Defense News reported that the British MOD was in talks with the US Defense Department about purchasing the Oshkosh L-ATV or the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle as one part of he MRV-P programme. The report also noted that the RMMV Survivor R is also one of the five downselected for this requirement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_Role_Vehicle-Protected

Oshkosh L-ATV

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_L-ATV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Light_Tactical_Vehicle

RMMV Survivor R

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMMV_Survivor_R

The British Army wants to purchase 8x8 wheeled armoured fighting vehicles to replace the Mastiff and Ridgeback in British Service. This program used to be part of FRES UV, later named simply UV (Utility Vehicle) and now known as Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV). This vehicle is intended to equip the 3 "heavy protected mobility" battalions under Army 2020. They will also be part of the 2 Strike Brigades proposed under the Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015.
It might be based on the design of the French VBCI infantry fighting vehicle. General Dynamics Land Systems is also offering a model while ST Kinetics is offering its Terrex as a variant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_of_the_British_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanised_Infantry_Vehicle

General Dynamics offer Mowag Piranha variants (Stryker like)

https://www.gdels.com/products/wheeled_4.asp

VBCI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Véhicule_blindé_de_combat_d'infanterie

Terrex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrex

Nothing to shabby inho. Of course, one does have to compare these with the vehicles that Russia has or will have for similar roles and tasks (but, like I said, it's PressTV ;-)

 

[omega supremme]

Obviously the Russians could easily defeat the U.K alone. The issue is the U.K will not be alone.
the French, German, Italian, spanish, polish etc armed forces will all be coming to the U.K's aid.
along with the US army.. this makes it far more difficult for the Russians to pull out a victory.

And if China joins Russia then what ?

 

[Penguin]

According to the “official-sensitive” document, which was produced in March under the direction of General Sir Nick Carter, Russian military forces hold a “significant capability edge” over the UK army and are equipped with more advanced technologies, British daily The Timesreported Wednesday.

Russia is in possession of more sophisticated rocket launchers and air defense systems, the report noted, adding that the UK’s planned £3.5 billion fleet of lightly armored vehicles were “disproportionately vulnerable” to Russian mortar and rocket fire.

Russia said in May that it expects to receive the first examples of its domestically-built S-500 air and missile defense systems. The system can reportedly engage hypersonic targets at altitudes of about 201km (125 miles), a significant upgrade over the S-400.

This is while the British army’s primary air defense system, Rapier, has been in service for 35 years and will be deployed until 2020. Rapier missiles have an operational range of 8.2km (5 miles) and can hit targets at latitudes of up to 5 km (3 miles).

UK relies for air defence of the UK on fighter aircraft. It has not operated long(er) range missiles since 1991, when the last Bristol Bloodhound (85km) missiles retired. UK relies on NATO assets for AD missile (e.g. Mim-104Patriot of US, Germany, Netherlands, Greece and Spain, but also Eurosam SAMP/T aka Aster land based of France and Italy. NATO now also has 2 landbased AEGIS sites with Standard 3 and 6 missiles for ABM). UK, like most NATO countries, does not and has never fielded the array of AD weapons that the Soviet Union/Russia has had. Part of the reason to adopt such an array is e.g. the likelihood of NOT achieving air superiority.

For ground based air defence is operates the stationary or Land Rover mounted Starstreak Lightweight Multiple Launcher (LML), the Alvis Stormer tracked AFV mounted Starstreak SP HVM and the towed Rapier Field Standard C SHORADS. These are all low level AD systems organic to army units.
The Starstreak HVM (High Velocity Missile) is designed to counter threats from very high performance, low-flying aircraft and fast 'pop up' strikes by helicopters. Starstreak can also be used as a surface attack weapon, capable of penetrating the frontal armour of even IFV's.
The Rapier Field Standard C is an advanced Short Range Air Defence System (SHORAD), which is compact, mobile and air-portable, making it suitable for worldwide operations. It is a 24-hour, all-weather guided weapon system that can simultaneously engage two different targets. CAMM(L) is the land-based variant of CAMM that will replace the Rapier missile batteries of the British Army in near future

These systems are properly compared to MANPADs and light, lightly armored and mobile SHORADS e.g. SA-13,
ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", 9K33 Osa aka SA-8, Tunguska, Pantsir. Comparing them with surface-to-air missile systems designed for intercepting and destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles as well as hypersonic cruise missiles and aircraft is kind of silly, and ignores to NATO combined defence doctrine.

According to the “official-sensitive” document, which was produced in March under the direction of General Sir Nick Carter, Russian military forces hold a “significant capability edge” over the UK army and are equipped with more advanced technologies, British daily The Timesreported Wednesday.

Russia is in possession of more sophisticated rocket launchers and air defense systems, the report noted, adding that the UK’s planned £3.5 billion fleet of lightly armored vehicles were “disproportionately vulnerable” to Russian mortar and rocket fire.

The paper refers to Russia’s BM-30 Smerch multiple rocket launcher as another example of Russia’s superiority. It has a range of 90km (56 miles) — outranging the nearest British equivalent by 30km.

UK operates the M270 MLRS . Strike range depends on the munitions being used. UK has adopted the M30 round, which makes the MLRS now the Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS), nicknamed the '70 km Sniper' or 'GSRM (Grid Square Removal System)'. The M30/M31 round has a range of 84km and so the difference with BM-30 is not 30km but a whopping 6km. The M270 launch vehicle can also fire the ATACMS missile, which can reach 123km to 300km, depending on specific missile version. It the event of conflict of UK with Russia, it is quite likely the ATACMS missile would be made available from the US on short notice if the need arose.

The UKs standard SPGH is the L131 AS-90 155mm/L39 self-propelled howitzer. This is state of the art. The AS90 was upgraded with a Laser Inertial Artillery Pointing System, digital gun sight. The LINAPS provides the gunner with the position of the gun and the exact bearing and elevation of the barrel. It includes the FIN3110 ring-laser gyro based, strap-down Inertial Navigation Unit with embedded military Global Positioning System. THe gun system has a fire rate of 3 rounds in 10 seconds in burst fire, 6 rounds per minute for 3 minutes in intense firing and 2 rounds per minute for 60 minutes at sustained fire. It carries 48 rounds, 31 of these are stored in the turret bustle magazine. The range is 24.7km using conventional ammunition. The AS90 also fires assisted rounds, which provide an extended range to 30km. Fitting a 52-calibre barrel instead of the standard 39 calibre extends the range beyond 40km.

BAE systems were awarded a contract to upgrade 96 of the AS90 to a 52-calibre Length gun to increase its unassisted range to 30 km and with long-range ERA ammunition to 40km. The project was however cancelled by the British Army due to technical problems with the ammunition. The Braveheart turret is scheduled to be built under licence in Poland as part of their new Krab SPG using a German 155mm Cal Length 52 main gun.

 

[Penguin]

The leaked report also warned that Russia’s mastery of electronic warfare technologies such as jamming and hacking was a “real game changer” and posed a threat to NATO aircraft, GPS-guided weapons and the ability of soldiers on the ground.

“What we get from successive governments has been that it is all fine and dandy and ‘aren’t we doing well’,” General Sir Richard Shirreff, Britain’s former top officer in NATO, said. “Actually, the reality is that our capability has been dramatically hollowed out.”

The assessments go against UK Defense Minister Michael Fallon, who told MPs in May that UK and NATO’s armed forces were ready to “face up to any kind of threat in the future”

Yeah, well. I note it is interesting that there are no specific comparisons in regards to EW and Cyberwar. So all the report really says is that this is an area for NATO/UK to be (more) active in.

Essentially, what you have here is the military making a case for renewed investments in defense capability, after a long period of the military being subject to economy measures and increased, different types of deployments after the end of the cold war. Nothing really shocking imho.

 

[Penguin]

“In the unlikely event of a direct confrontation between NATO and RUS [Russia], we must acknowledge that RUS currently has a significant capability edge over UK force elements,” the leaked paper reportedly said. “Due to the fact that some of our high-end military capabilities have been eroded since 2003, we must find ways to ‘fight smarter’ at the tactical level, acknowledging that some adversaries may be armed with weapons that are superior to our own.”

http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-can-o...s-more-powerful-weapons-leaked-report-2399706

My my, so what else is new?

Few if any NATO military retain the full spectrum of capabilities they used to have during the cold war. This is not in the last place due to a) economy measures / 'the peace divident' and b) the increased expense of development and procurement of military systems. The smaller your country, the more this comes into play. You also see this in the industry: mergers and takeovers and joint ventures which enlarge scale and lead to a few, large, multinational defence conglomerates.

And then perhaps a new era in ínternational relations, with Russia and others changing their stance. It is then only normal to (re)consider the defence response / investments necessary for the future.

 

[UKBengali]

So Russia is military more powerful than UK?

In other news, the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West.

 

[Henry ME 95]

And if China joins Russia then what ?

in my opinion stalemate. with a slight chance of the russo-chinese winning.
that said if things get bogged down for either. those nukes will start to look very good..
which would result in trouble

 

[LeGenD]

British Army might not be large but Royal Navy and RAF are a force to be reckoned with. On top of it, UK has geography on its side.

Russia needs to land a large number of troops and armor on British soil on a short notice to gain the upperhand. However, easier said than done.