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Russian Military Intervention Reality Check

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The assets that the Russians have currently deployed are not significant in number. At any one time the Russians will only be able to deploy around four not very sophisticated (beside perhaps the Su-34) aircraft.



maybe the russians will send more forces in time 1 thing about the war in syria time is not a problem for anyone
sky news says that there are 50 russian jets also airborne and special forces
 
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one thing is certain... the russian government knows more about the syrian situation than anyone on pdf.
 
thank you, kind sir.

but do you know who we were talking of or are you simply trying to legitimize a corruptor of islam??

and didn't you vote in atatwolf's poll yesterday??



are you here to support the nato proxy invasion of syria??
How i vote is non of ur damn business. As u have ur space to say and write and believe in what u want
I have mine.
So stop trying to act ultra smart when u are not.

And even the so called corruptor of Islam was called Abdul wahab. Nothing so hard to understand about what I said. Now next time mind ur own business. And if u really want to open ur mouth make some sense instead of wasting the oxygen just for the sake of it.
 
How i vote is non of ur damn business.

if you have something to contribute to this thread, you should make it substantial and practical, instead of trying to act superior.

hoping i did not waste oxygen,
jamahir.
 
Of course, but there can be no doubt they would be many times more effective (and less prone to collateral damage) were they to employ PGMs.
*cough* gaza *cough* :angel:

The US-led airstrikes may be half-a$$ing it but when you aren't even brining your "A" game (PGMs) to the fight, what does that say of Russia's efforts?
"half azsing it" sounds a lot like "not bringing their 'A-game' "

but yes, there is no comparison between the puny Russian presence in Syria to the US carrier groups operating in the region and how much firepower they have on tap.

but this is an ideological and political fight, and I think the US and the Russians, along with every one else, minus the Saudis of course, can reach consensus here that the Islamist psychopaths that form the core of the "rebel" opposition must be eliminated completely.
 
if you have something to contribute to this thread, you should make it substantial and practical, instead of trying to act superior.

hoping i did not waste oxygen,
jamahir.
Yes I did
I can say the same for u.
If u have something better to add rather then calling for a ban on all who don't tow ur line of thought please do.
 
*cough* gaza *cough* :angel:
Think how much worse that would have been using "dumb" bombs.
but this is an ideological and political fight, and I think the US and the Russians, along with every one else, minus the Saudis of course, can reach consensus here that the Islamist psychopaths that form the core of the "rebel" opposition must be eliminated completely.

And thank God these two are on the same page (somewhat) in attacking these animals and ensuring this is a short-lived "state".
 
Think how much worse that would have been using "dumb" bombs.
all war is ugly, dead civvies are just a stat

And thank God these two are on the same page (somewhat) in attacking these animals and ensuring this is a short-lived "state".
yeah, these differences should easily be ironed out, I can't for the life of me even begin to imagine a random US citizen who enthusiastically supports these Syrian al qaeda isis rebel scum.

last I checked the US was still a democracy, no way they can keep this charade of "moderate opposition" up for long before they all realize they're actually the same breed of jihadis that did 9/11.
 
@Frogman

I am now agnostic, so don't accuse me of riding religion here. But like I told you before, I don't understand what difference Russian intervention will make to you. You and other Arabs oppose Iran but not in favor of Syrian opposition. Egyptian plus Arab leadership actually do their best to avoid relations with majority of rebels which you call what you want, AQ or Islamist affiliated groups. In the OP, it sounds like you are pro-opposition now...I'm really confused....

yeah, these differences should easily be ironed out, I can't for the life of me even begin to imagine a random US citizen who enthusiastically supports these Syrian al qaeda isis rebel scum.

last I checked the US was still a democracy, no way they can keep this charade of "moderate opposition" up for long before they all realize they're actually the same breed of jihadis that did 9/11.

I understand that you don't like religious fundamentalists, neither do I, that being said you are overdoing it. Besides ISIS, the rest of the militias have agenda based for Syria and they aren't looking to convert anyone or goad foreign powers into war. They are humans too, but they resort to religious fervor to give themselves confidence, because war is a scary, stressful matter. So you either see people chanting religious slogans or smoking through boxes of cigarettes. Bottom-line is, people choose sides in this conflict based on their interests/camps and not based off paranoid sentiments regarding the opposition.
 
I understand that you don't like religious fundamentalists, neither do I, that being said you are overdoing it. Besides ISIS, the rest of the militias have agenda based for Syria and they aren't looking to convert anyone or goad foreign powers into war. They are humans too, but they resort to religious fervor to give themselves confidence, because war is a scary, stressful matter. So you either see people chanting religious slogans or smoking through boxes of cigarettes. Bottom-line is, people choose sides in this conflict based on their interests/camps and not based off paranoid sentiments regarding the opposition.
you allrite, hazzy ? o_O

you're right, it's never black and white, but it's gone on long enough, millions displaced, hundreds of thousand killed.. someone needs to get in there and smash the greater evil to bits, as a non religiously allied distant watcher, I'm going with the Russians on this one.

I understand there are many other legit stakeholders who see this very differently but my mind is made up, most of these Syrian "rebels" need to go, disarm and surrender, die from a barrel bomb or a Russian airstrike.
 
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This thread is meant as a reality check for every single member on this forum who continually propagates the view that Russian military intervention in Syria will decimate the ranks of the Free Syrian Army, The Islamic State, and Al-Qaeda affiliated militias. I will attempt to make it as simple and as brief as possible.

Will Russian operations turn the tide for Assad's embattled Syrian Arab Army?

No, Russian military intervention will not produce any clear winners nor will it give the Syrian Arab Army a significant edge on the battlefield across Syria.

Why?

It is simple. The assets that the Russians have currently deployed are not significant in number. At any one time the Russians will only be able to deploy around four not very sophisticated (beside perhaps the Su-34) aircraft.

In addition to that the Russians appear to be using a mix of precision guided munitions and free fall munitions. From footage released it appears that unguided munitions are used in the lion's share of sorties so far.

A reliance on unguided munitions will mean more collateral damage (civilian deaths) which may be politically and eventually militarily counter-productive (although this is another debate entirely).

More importantly, the use of unguided munitions will result in strike sorties against targets being less effective (as we have already seen) and will complicate close air support sorties.

Another major point is that the Russian operations in Syria are at the end of a very long supply and
logistics chain.

So at times it may not be surprising to find the forces stationed there to be under resourced and equipped.

To put this into perspective the entire Russian commitment based out of Latakia is far less capable than one US aircraft carrier.

It is of note that the entire Western Coalition has thus far been largely ineffective in trying to root out or degrade The Islamic State and Al-Qaeda affiliated militias in Syria from the air.

So what will Russian military intervention mean for the Syrian Arab Army?

It is unlikely to be a force multiplier due to its size and capabilities but it will however boost the morale of the Syrian Arab Army. Which is very important considering they have taken a substantial battering in this war of attrition.

What the Russian deployment does act as though is a trigger force. Meaning it may potentially disrupt direct intervention by outside powers in favour of the revolt against Assad by simply having a presence there.

So what is Russia's military 'mission' in Syria?

First and foremost they must stop rebel advances towards a Mediterranean port. Specifically, they will target Jaysh Alfath which was instrumental in the capture of Idlib and which has Latakia in it's sights.

It is only logical that the majority of their strikes will be in and around Latakia. They must secure their area of operations before they do anything else.

So far Russian strikes in that area have allowed them to grab the initiative but whether they can maintain momentum is questionable.

Their strikes in that area will likely continue until Idllib is retaken (if that ever actually happens) and may even continue beyond that.

Something to keep an eye out for though is potential Russian plans to base long rang air defence systems. This may complicate things for coalition forces if the Russians plan to enforce an 'area denial' policy over the Eastern Mediterranean.

So what about Russian operations against The Islamic State?

Russian air strikes have so far focused on FSA and Al-Qaeda affiliated militias.

Many of which have connections to the United States and a tripartite of Gulf nations. This may be a reason why Russia has deployed air to air fighters alongside its contingent of bombers.

Strikes against the Islamic State so far appear to be symbolic.

Required in order to further propagate Russian propaganda at home/abroad and allow a certain amount of political manoeuvring.

In order to effectively tackle The Islamic State Assad needs to secure his immediate neighbourhood which is in the West of the country. The Islamic State is concentrated within the East. In between there's a lot of empty land and Syrian rebels.

In order to move against The Islamic State Assad needs to regain the Syrian heartland stopping the war there and replacing it with an area that requires policing rather than war fighting.


The above will not be easy and Russian military involvement will not help that much.

Will Russia be successful?

At this point in time it's difficult to answer this question but a look into Russia's past may give us a glimpse.

The Soviet Union was particularly successful in the Cold War across South East Asia and Central/South America. It was capable of frustrating the United States by wining proxy wars.

However, once they deployed Soviet boots in Afghanistan their success was rapidly shunted.

Will this be another repeat of Afghanistan or a successful proxy war? I don't know.

What I do know is that this intervention will further muddle an already confusing war and one which there will be no clear winner and only one victim, the Syrian people.

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Short and sweet. Will add things I missed to this.


Great analysis bro and I largely agree.

At the end of the day it is basically a dogfight between the US and Russia. A continuation of the tensions that we have witnessed since Putin came to power in 2000. The same Putin who has openly stated that he seeks to reinstate the former "glory" of the USSR. We have seen this illustrated by increased tensions in the eastern sphere of NATO (Poland and the Baltic countries) since the late 2000's, Caucasus (the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008) and we see it now in Ukraine. Putin has also applied a more aggressive policy towards the former USSR republics in particular those in Central Asia.

I don't believe that USA can afford to let Russia take the control of the situation in Syria and Iraq. As the US is a much stronger party than Russia (no comparison) I think it is just a question of time before we see concrete US actions to deter Russian influence. How that will unfold I don't really know with certainty but I have no doubt that the GCC, Turkey and Israel are already pressuring the US.

Nobody in the region outside of a failed Iraq and Iran want to see Al-Assad in power. I think that there will be an agreement where Al-Assad, ISIS, Al-Nusra, Hezbollah etc. will be removed. The US and Russia might come to an agreement even when both parties eventually realize that Syria need to start from a fresh as the Al-Assad regime has played its role in Syria for good and of course there is no point talking about ISIS or Al-Nusra etc.

This is just a statement from Putin. Hugely overrated IMO as you also allude to. Nevertheless a statement that might even help end this conflict sooner than we thought just 2 weeks ago. Unless both parties go full retard which I see as unlikely.
 
I don't believe that USA can afford to let Russia take the control of the situation in Syria and Iraq. As the US is a much stronger party than Russia (no comparison)
IMO there is no gap between Russian Federation and the United States. It is true that the current Russia is a 1/4 Soviet Union in terms of military strength but still much enough to give the Americans alot of headache.
 
IMO there is no gap between Russian Federation and the United States. It is true that the current Russia is a 1/4 Soviet Union in terms of military strength but still much enough to give the Americans alot of headache.

Are you bloody serious? "No gap". Ok! I really don't get the fascination/delusion that a large sector of ME and Asian people have when it comes to Russia. In particular Indians I have noticed. I have seen so many claim that Russia is superior to the US in terms of military power. I really don't know where they get this idea from. Maybe idiotic Hollywood movies that always portray Russians as some mythical hardcore villains.

The ME is an American/US allies playground and will remain as that. A few Russian fighter jets using highly inaccurate bombs won't change that at all.

Syria is not that important anyway. Whether in terms of resources or geopolitically. It will unfortunately be a failed state for years to come just like Iraq has been for too long. Of course they will both bounce back eventually (if they will even remain the Syria and Iraq as we knew) but it will take more time.

The Jewish lobby in the US alone will make sure that the US will go nowhere and that every Israeli obstacle in the ME will be dealt with one way or another.

Netanyahu is obviously a greedy person and wants tougher actions aimed at the Mullah's in Iran but basically the nuclear deal has prevented Iran from ever obtaining a nuclear weapon which was the main goal. Of course I have no doubt that he would have preferred an invasion and for the US to topple the Iranian regime which would mean the end of Iranian proxies in the region who threaten Israel and potentially a new(new Iranian regime) like under the Shah.
 
Are you bloody serious? "No gap". Ok! I really don't get the fascination/delusion that a large sector of ME and Asian people have when it comes to Russia. In particular Indians I have noticed. I have seen so many claim that Russia is superior to the US in terms of military power. I really don't know where they get this idea from. Maybe idiotic Hollywood movies that always portray Russians as some mythical hardcore villains.

The ME is an American/US allies playground and will remain as that. A few Russian fighter jets using highly inaccurate bombs won't change that at all.

Syria is not that important anyway. Whether in terms of resources or geopolitically. It will unfortunately be a failed state for years to come just like Iraq has been for too long. Of course they will both bounce back eventually (if they will even remain the Syria and Iraq as we knew) but it will take more time.

The Jewish lobby in the US alone will make sure that the US will go nowhere and that every Israeli obstacle in the ME will be dealt with one way or another.

Netanyahu is obviously a greedy person and wants tougher actions aimed at the Mullah's in Iran but basically the nuclear deal has prevented Iran from ever obtaining a nuclear weapon which was the main goal. Of course I have no doubt that he would have preferred an invasion and for the US to topple the Iranian regime which would mean the end of Iranian proxies in the region who threaten Israel and potentially a new(new Iranian regime) like under the Shah.

Mate, you forgot the most important fact : Russia military power is all inherited from the old Soviet Union. I think that is clear enough. Also Russians are not sanctioned or under any embargo and they have acces to the world (military) market since the 90's and have been using this opportunity for their armed forces.

There is no fascination, just plain facts. Now just because Moscow didn't decide to bring democracy to other countries doesnt mean it is not capable doing so.


Regarding the Mullahs, they are back in the American camp, enough said.
 
Mate, you forgot the most important fact : Russia military power is all inherited from the old Soviet Union. I think that is clear enough. Also Russians are not sanctioned or under any embargo and they have acces to the world (military) market since the 90's and have been using this opportunity for their armed forces.

There is no fascination, just plain facts. Now just because Moscow didn't decide to bring democracy to other countries doesnt mean it is not capable doing so.


Regarding the Mullahs, they are back in the American camp, enough said.

Mate, I am not saying that Russia is a pushover or not a world power but there is really (IMO) no comparison between them and the US. Let alone the allies of each camp in the region and world as a whole.

USSR was basically Russia. The other former USSR republics were not worth much with the exception of Ukraine (the industrial Eastern Ukraine mind you).

Actually Russia is sanctioned currently.

The US is a democracy and has been that since it's birth almost 250 years ago. Russia has never been a democracy but has always been ruled by dictators. Whether Tsars, communist dictators or the current lot.

I don't think so. The Iranian government is much closer to the Russian camp. Don't let that nuclear deal fool you. Maybe that will change I don't know but it would be good for the region IMO. But I hardly care anyone as I am not even fully Middle Eastern and likely won't ever live in the ME again.

The only reason why I am somewhat against the Russian bombings is because they don't really target ISIS but some minor groups (mostly FSA) and because the Russians are hellbent on keeping the Al-Assad regime alive which is a main party in the conflict and IMO the main cause for the misery in Syria. All those parties need to be removed and Syria should start from a fresh. They should decide their future on their own but no sane person shall tell me that a person like Al-Assad (who has killed 200.000 people) is the right man to lead a likely ruined and very divided Syria in the future. As long as he stays in power the more gasoline you will throw on the fire and more extremists will emerge. To me it's like removing a few cancer cells while leaving dozens of others and then pretend that the cancer has been cured. No it has not!

Anyway mate, we can bark all we want on the internet at the end of the day we have no influence unless we reach positions of power.
 
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