Featured Russia would be developing upgraded engines for Pakistan's JF-17 fighters

[nomi007]

Will Rd-93ma have TVC capabilities?

 

[Kingslayerr]

Will Rd-93ma have TVC capabilities?

No

 

[araz]

Should we assume that actual pace on Block-III is much slower as evidently engine is not ready yet. It seems that PAF was confident about using existing RD-93 for B3 but it could not generate required results thus eventually had to adopt RD-93MA with increased thrust. I might be wrong but there is no other explanation of the fact that a block which is under design since 2016-17 got approval of new engine just now in 2nd half of 2020.

As per @ messiach the turust of the RD93 was already approaching what the MA provides. So I dont think thrust and need of an engine is theMAJOR issue. Integration of new hardware and aoftware may well be requiring testig which may be what is takinh time. 93MA may yet be a couple of years away as it is yet undergoing trials before initial batch production.
A

 

[Tameem]

As per @ messiach the turust of the RD93 was already approaching what the MA provides. So I dont think thrust and need of an engine is theMAJOR issue. Integration of new hardware and aoftware may well be requiring testig which may be what is takinh time. 93MA may yet be a couple of years away as it is yet undergoing trials before initial batch production.
A

If your assessment is correct then B3 should be in flight testing at the moment with standard RD93 Engine for hardware/software integration but we didn't see any report of it since first test in 2019, neither any news of such forthcoming test anywhere. So, Logic didn't accepting your argument.

 

[PakShaheen79]

As per @ messiach the turust of the RD93 was already approaching what the MA provides. So I dont think thrust and need of an engine is theMAJOR issue. Integration of new hardware and aoftware may well be requiring testig which may be what is takinh time. 93MA may yet be a couple of years away as it is yet undergoing trials before initial batch production.
A

I juxtapose this news on development status of B3. Project is kept under secrecy for obvious reasons hence at this time, anyone's opinion is a guess work but things will become interesting till the first quarter of next year, if the current status continues then we must understand that something MAJOR has come up as a hurdle. Now I pray that I am dead wrong on this one.

 

[araz]

If your assessment is correct then B3 should be in flight testing at the moment with standard RD93 Engine for hardware/software integration but we didn't see any report of it since first test in 2019, neither any news of such forthcoming test anywhere. So, Logic didn't accepting your argument.

I cannot say for sure as I remain a layman like you. PAF high ups suggested a possible development of 2 platforms in last quarter of 2020 with possible induction 2021 first quarter. We are expecting too much too early.
A

 

[Thorough Pro]

It doesn't work like that. A jet is built around the engine not that the engine is changed at the last moment.

Should we assume that actual pace on Block-III is much slower as evidently engine is not ready yet. It seems that PAF was confident about using existing RD-93 for B3 but it could not generate required results thus eventually had to adopt RD-93MA with increased thrust. I might be wrong but there is no other explanation of the fact that a block which is under design since 2016-17 got approval of new engine just now in 2nd half of 2020.

 

[Kabotar]

If PAF is waiting for this engine for block 3 and block 3 is similar in size to block 2 than that is disappointing and a missed opportunity. Though we don't have all the specs for the MA version of the engine but just on thrust level this is similar type of jump that F414 had on F404 and both Hornet and Gripen when they moved from F404 to F414 they increased size of the plane, increased internal fuel capacity Hornet but 25% Gripen by 40% and they also increased weapons carrying capability. Hell even Tejas Mk2 is doing same and Mig35 also increased fuel and weapons load over Mig29.

 

[Trango Towers]

According to UEC General Designer Alexander Ivakh speaking at the Engines 2012 salon in April, about 70 engines of the RD-33 family were made in Russia last year. Their production is run now by the Chernyshev Mashine-Building Enterprise in Moscow. Previously, the RD-33 Series 2 had been in production with the Baranov OMO enterprise in Omsk (at present, an affiliate of the Salut Gas Turbine Research and Production Centre), but the fact that customers order now RD-33 Series 3 and RD-33MK engines only has left Omsk-based plant with repairing and overhauling Baranov-made engines, while the production of new engines has moved to Moscow.



Chernyshev's near-term production programme is determined by its current orderbook for the second batch of 29 MiG-29K/KUB carrierborne fighters to India (the first batch of 16 aircraft powered by Chernyshev-built RD-33MKs was delivered during 2009 & 2011) and the recent Russian Defence Ministry order for 24 fighters of the type. In addition, the plant supplied RD-33MK turbofans to fit the first two MiG-29M/M2 fighter prototypes.

The first MiG-29K/KUB jets are due to the Russian Navy's air arm as soon as 2013, but the RD-33MK first has to pass its official bench tests for compliance with peculiar requirements of the Russian Armed Forces. Klimov JSC kicked off the tests on 28 January 2012.

An important position in Chernyshev's production plans is also occupied by the deliveries of RD-33 Series 3 knockdown kits to India under the January 2007 contract on licence production of 120 engines of the type there. The programme is about half-complete.

Finally, the RD-93, a RD-33 derivative with the low-mounted accessory gearbox, is exported to China to fit FC-1 (JF-17) light single-engine fighters. The deal for 100 RD-93s with an option for 400 more was clinched in April 2005. The first 15 engines were assembled by Klimov, and Chernyshev has handled the rest of the deliveries since 2006. The contract is half-complete, and the deliveries shall resume as soon as the customer submits its request.

At the same time with the full-rate production in Moscow, Klimov JSC in St. Petersburg continues to refine the RD-33MK and RD-93. According to Klimov, the company's jet engine priorities are the development of the modified RD-93MA with the thrust enhanced to 9,300 kgf for a foreign customer and the development of the upgraded RD-33MKM with a thrust of 9,500 kgf for the MiG corporation.

Take-off Magazine : RD-33: output on the rise

From 8,300kgf to 9,300kgf. That's a 1 tonne thrust increase. Would do wonders for JF-17's thrust to weight ratio. Enjoy the extra thrust PAF fans!
9,300kgf is equal to 20502lbf if my calculations are right.

Still way below an f16 engine but progress

 

[Ultima Thule]

Still way below an f16 engine but progress

JF-17 doesn't need F-16 class engine, sir

 

[DrWatson775]

If PAF is waiting for this engine for block 3 and block 3 is similar in size to block 2 than that is disappointing and a missed opportunity. Though we don't have all the specs for the MA version of the engine but just on thrust level this is similar type of jump that F414 had on F404 and both Hornet and Gripen when they moved from F404 to F414 they increased size of the plane, increased internal fuel capacity Hornet but 25% Gripen by 40% and they also increased weapons carrying capability. Hell even Tejas Mk2 is doing same and Mig35 also increased fuel and weapons load over Mig29.

I think fuel capacity has been increased from Block II onwards if I remember correctly.
The talk about improvement in safety features of RD93 (for used in single engine aircraft) made me think about the previously discussed loss of JF17 over the Arabian sea.

 

[Muhammed45]

So, according to these sources close to conductors of JF-17 block-3, 100 of these engines are on production schedule. Which means 50 JF-17 fighter jets will join PAF increasing the number of fleet to almost 150 fighter jets.

In other words JF-17 is becomeing or has become backbone of PAF.

I have made a wrong assumption here, Jf17 is not a twin engine fighter lol.

So 100 engines means 100 fighter jets. Therefore 100 new Jf17s are going to join PAF and they will be from block-3. A big number indeed

 

[The Eagle]

I have made a wrong assumption here, Jf17 is not a twin engine fighter lol.

So 100 engines means 100 fighter jets. Therefore 100 new Jf17s are going to join PAF and they will be from block-3. A big number indeed

These reports are not authentic in regard to total number. Furthermore, the numbers may vary depending upon circumstances, change of plans, requirements of total number of birds and above all, spare units as well. The number can increase by the time as well.

 

[Marker]

Since induction of JF-17 in PAF, it were Chinese dealing the procurement of RD-93 from Russia. Pakistan was not directly involved in those deals. However, recent events reveal some major shift. (1) Establishment of RD-93 engine overhauling facility at PAF Faisal and (2) strong rumors about RD-93 MA up-gradation. Top leadership is and was fully satisfied with the performance of RD-93 engines. Switching to some other engine is out of question. Possibility of RD-93 complete ToT is very high.

 

[Trango Towers]

Since induction of JF-17 in PAF, it were Chinese dealing the procurement of RD-93 from Russia. Pakistan was not directly involved in those deals. However, recent events reveal some major shift. (1) Establishment of RD-93 engine overhauling facility at PAF Faisal and (2) strong rumors about RD-93 MA up-gradation. Top leadership is and was fully satisfied with the performance of RD-93 engines. Switching to some other engine is out of question. Possibility of RD-93 complete ToT is very high.

But experts on PDF always said it was an underrated engine.. pagal