Russia will not agree to any curbs on transfer of sensitive technologies to India!

[Screaming Skull]

India set to join Russia-based nuclear research body​

Moscow September 16, 2009,

Armed with the NSG waiver, India is set to join an elite nuclear research centre in Russia set up by the former Soviet bloc countries.

"We will become a member of the Dubna Joint Institute for Nuclear Research (JINR)," Chairman of the Prime Minister's Science Advisory Council Prof. CNR Rao said here.

Rao, who is here to co-chair the Joint Council of the Indo-Russian Integrated Long-term Programme (ILTP) for science and technology cooperation, said the two Indian delegations have already visited Dubna, a science city situated 120 km from the Russian capital.

"The Department of Atomic Energy is carrying out the necessary negotiations," he added.

JINR was established through the Convention signed on March 26, 1956 in Moscow by representatives of 11 founding states of the former Soviet bloc to unite their scientific and material potential in order to study fundamental properties of matter.

Today it is a world-known centre where the fundamental research (theoretical and experimental) is successfully integrated with the new technology work-out and application of the latest techniques and university education.

India set to join Russia-based nuclear research body

 

[Screaming Skull]

True to its words, Russia gives us the best possible Nuclear deal without any strings attached!

India, Russia sign nuclear deal​

Moscow, December 7, 2009

• Under the agreement four new nuclear reactors would be set up by Russia in Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu and a site for the fifth one has been identified in West Bengal.

​

India and Russia on Monday signed a path-breaking broad-based agreement in civil nuclear field that will ensure transfer of technology and uninterrupted uranium fuel supplies to its nuclear reactors and inked three pacts in the defence sector.

The agreements were signed after talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev at the Kremlin here, during which they discussed a whole range of issues, including terrorism emanating from Afghanistan.

“Today we have signed an agreement that broadens the reach of our cooperation beyond supplies of nuclear reactors to areas of research and development and a whole range of areas in nuclear energy,” Mr. Singh told a joint press conference with Mr. Medvedev.

The Prime Minister said the agreement will deepen and strengthen the already existing nuclear cooperation between the two countries under which four new nuclear reactors would be set up by Russia in Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu and a site for the fifth one has been identified in West Bengal.

The new civil nuclear pact provides for uninterrupted uranium fuel supplies from Russia even in the event of termination of bilateral ties in this field for any reason.

The India-Russia pact on atomic cooperation is a significant document and goes much further than the 123 agreement between India and the U.S., officials said. The pact also has provisions for transfer of enrichment and nuclear technology, which is denied in the 123 agreement with the U.S.

Mr. Medvedev said the nuclear agreement opens the way for greater cooperation beyond Kudankulam...........................

The Hindu : News / National : India, Russia sign nuclear deal

 

[Hulk]

Precisely my point.



As I stated earlier, it will set a precedent for countries to sell civilian nuclear technology to Pakistan. All this talk of responsible/irresponsible goes out the window once the checkbook comes out. The challenge for Pakistan is to develop its economy (and collect proper taxes from its deadbeat tax evaders) to wield a bigger checkbook.

Dude hope you remember that how India got 123 signed and how so many countries have to give their consent. Just because India got it does not mean Pakistan will get it. China has to abide by rules and hence similar exception will be needed for Pakistan. Looking at situation inside Pak and your prolification record, not possible in this decade.

 

[jarnee]

Fair enough. India knows how to build some types of nuclear reactors, but not others. And it needs foreign help with those technologies.

India-IAEA sign inspection pact,India and the World, News Analysis, India News Online

Russia and France have come forward with attractive offers for their advanced light water reactor designs

Negotiations with France are on for six light water reactors of the most advanced design and bigger capacity — 1600 MWe.

My point stands. It will make it easier for Pakistan to obtain civilian nuclear tech.

Why just china, any ways US will not allow unless she is okay with Pakistan having access to Uranium. I think it wil be easy for Pakistan to built a civil nuclear plant with china's help , but issue is URANIUM.

 

[jarnee]

India has secured uranium from Nigeria and Canada, Australia has not agreed as it is in Chinese pressure not to sell to India. Austraila has highest uranium ore in the world

 

[Goodperson]

Lets discuss about the topic of the thread and not about India Pakistan.

The India's advantage against other countries is it has approval of NSG for which even China is a signatory.
NSG was possible due to US Push, US has some technicalities which can overcomed with not much diffculty as per PM Manmohan Singh.
NSG made possible for other countries to deal with civilian nuclear cooperation with India. This is a huge market, that's why Russia is offering no curbs, France will follow the suit. US will be coaxed to follow by its own companies.

 

[sensenreason]

India has secured uranium from Nigeria and Canada, Australia has not agreed as it is in Chinese pressure not to sell to India. Austraila has highest uranium ore in the world

I dont understand why the Aussies are so pro-china, they wilted even during the Rio Tinto affair.

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Lets discuss about the topic of the thread and not about India Pakistan.

The India's advantage against other countries is it has approval of NSG for which even China is a signatory.
NSG was possible due to US Push, US has some technicalities which can overcomed with not much diffculty as per PM Manmohan Singh.
NSG made possible for other countries to deal with civilian nuclear cooperation with India. This is a huge market, that's why Russia is offering no curbs, France will follow the suit. US will be coaxed to follow by its own companies.

Completely Agree with your commentt...

Well, as days go by the US companies may start thinking that they are caught in a Catch-22, situation. They put all their efforts for getting the NSG nod and the 123 Agreement but even after an year they haven't been able to move forward. The Russians,French, Canada have gone further and have signed agreements, the US still thinking and bargaining..

So while India with its proximity to Russia and offering more opportunities can get most of its demands fulfilled, the US companies still waiting. The only beneficiary in all the drama seems to be Russia (more reactors, more money) and India (more electricity, uranium supplies at least from Russia if India tests again and US imposes ban, more competition less cost).

If the US has to gain anything, they will certainly have to offer more incentives.

After reading many articles in Australian newspapers I am of the view they would probably come to terms with India within the next five years, the amount of trade they losing is just too much for them to bear.

 

[deckingraj]

Well, as days go by the US companies may start thinking that they are caught in a Catch-22, situation. They put all their efforts for getting the NSG nod and the 123 Agreement but even after an year they haven't been able to move forward. The Russians,French, Canada have gone further and have signed agreements, the US still thinking and bargaining..

Very much in agreement here....

So while India with its proximity to Russia and offering more opportunities can get most of its demands fulfilled, the US companies still waiting. The only beneficiary in all the drama seems to be Russia (more reactors, more money) and India (more electricity, uranium supplies at least from Russia if India tests again and US imposes ban, more competition less cost).

I disagree to some extent on it(though your overall point make sense)...As far as i remember in the agreement that India has signed with US their is some clause of India giving some significant amount of business(at-least prefer) to American Companies...After all its the US that has gone up and down to get India the NSG waiver....Thus Russia-France-Canada are making most of the provided window(where US is still in thinking mode) and signing contracts with India...Once they(US) are a party to it we will be giving them lot of Biz and certainly we are going to demand more(as offered by other competitors)....

If the US has to gain anything, they will certainly have to offer more incentives.

Cannot agree more on this...

After reading many articles in Australian newspapers I am of the view they would probably come to terms with India within the next five years, the amount of trade they losing is just too much for them to bear.

That depends...As far i know Australia was one of the country that was hell-bent on spoiling the NSG waiver...Its the US who use effective diplomacy to cool it down...Now was it(Australian reaction) due to domestic politics or China pressure or combination of both i am not sure...I will go for later...Though India would love to seal deal with as many countries as it can yet looking at the current needs and for next 2 decades deals with Russia-US-Canada-France should suffice....

Also i have asked this question on a different thread but did not get an answer..So if i may...

Recent deal with Russia(i believe we have one on similar terms with France) ensures constant supply of Nucleat Fuel even if bilateral realtions b'w India and Russia goes for a toss...Does that mean Russia is oblligatory to supply fuel even if India conducts another nuclear test???

 

[TheBraveHeart]

I disagree to some extent on it(though your overall point make sense)...As far as i remember in the agreement that India has signed with US their is some clause of India giving some significant amount of business(at-least prefer) to American Companies...After all its the US that has gone up and down to get India the NSG waiver....Thus Russia-France-Canada are making most of the provided window(where US is still in thinking mode) and signing contracts with India...Once they(US) are a party to it we will be giving them lot of Biz and certainly we are going to demand more(as offered by other competitors)....

That depends...As far i know Australia was one of the country that was hell-bent on spoiling the NSG waiver...Its the US who use effective diplomacy to cool it down...Now was it(Australian reaction) due to domestic politics or China pressure or combination of both i am not sure...I will go for later...Though India would love to seal deal with as many countries as it can yet looking at the current needs and for next 2 decades deals with Russia-US-Canada-France should suffice....

Also i have asked this question on a different thread but did not get an answer..So if i may...

Recent deal with Russia(i believe we have one on similar terms with France) ensures constant supply of Nucleat Fuel even if bilateral realtions b'w India and Russia goes for a toss...Does that mean Russia is oblligatory to supply fuel even if India conducts another nuclear test???

Well to cut a long answer short,
If US itself can't come to a conclusion or make up its mind they will be stuck with the only two reactors that has been granted with. Any new reactor in the making will surely go to the country which has committed itself earlier.

In one of the recent reports I read that India has made a pre-condition to Australia about the Uranium supplies if it wants to join Malabar exercises which they are pretty eager to join.

IMHO, India will surely get the supply uninterrupted at least from Russia except when India-Russia relations tumble..but that seems a distant case.

 

[deckingraj]

Well to cut a long answer short,
If US itself can't come to a conclusion or make up its mind they will be stuck with the only two reactors that has been granted with. Any new reactor in the making will surely go to the country which has committed itself earlier.

Hmmm got it...I was not sure about the fact that only 2 reactors were promised...I thought the deal was more than that....In fact there was something that Hillary Clinton said to that regard(about we will ensure that US companies will get most from this instead of others) but not able to find it out

In one of the recent reports I read that India has made a pre-condition to Australia about the Uranium supplies if it wants to join Malabar exercises which they are pretty eager to join.

Well that's a good move...I missed that report though...Would you mind sharing it please???

It would be interesting to see chinese reaction to that

IMHO, India will surely get the supply uninterrupted at least from Russia except when India-Russia relations tumble..but that seems a distant case.

May be naive to ask but at-least the latest deal promise about un-interrupted supplies even if bi-lateral relations sees a downward slope..Though not sure how will they manage it...

 

[Contrarian]

Super! This will make is easier for China to transfer nuclear tech to Pakistan.

No it does not make it any easier for China or any other country for transfer nuclear tech to Pakistan.

For starters, Pakistan would need a full fledged waiver from the NSG like India got. This can be obtained by NO other country barring the US. Without US help in ramrodding another waiver at NSG for Pakistan, no country can supply nuclear tech to Pakistan.

Secondly, assume that IF somehow miraculously Pakistan does get the complete waiver(including reprocessing, etc) then China still cant help you beyond a certain point because they themselves are buying reactors from GE/Westinghouse. They can build reactors for you till a certain size, beyond that size, they import/licence build the reactors themselves.

We, like India, do not yet know how to make civilian reactors.

Again, please speak for yourself. India has been making nuclear reactors for civilian purposes for a LONG time now. India's nuclear technology and knowhow far surpasses Pakistan, they arent even comparable now. Do read up if you wish to about the issue. Stop trying to equate Pakistan and India-Because Pakistan cannot do it, India cant either right?

And im not even talking about research in Fast Breeder Reactors in which India is a global leader.

 

[deckingraj]

For starters, Pakistan would need a full fledged waiver from the NSG like India got. This can be obtained by NO other country barring the US. Without US help in ramrodding another waiver at NSG for Pakistan, no country can supply nuclear tech to Pakistan.

Malay don't you think that even for some reason US choose to support NSG waiver for Pakistan we can still spoil the party by using Russia to veto such a move??? To me Pakistan problems are not just somehow win over US but Russia as well...and if current affairs are any indications it seems highly unlikely...

US convincing China is one thing but when it comes to Russia its a different ball game...

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Well that's a good move...I missed that report though...Would you mind sharing it please???

For now I guess its only two for US, one in Andhra and other in Gujrat


Australia in the Indian Ocean: Indian-Australian military contact but uranium still blocked

U should go through other post of the author too, really good blog..

 

[Goodperson]

Also i have asked this question on a different thread but did not get an answer..So if i may...

Recent deal with Russia(i believe we have one on similar terms with France) ensures constant supply of Nucleat Fuel even if bilateral realtions b'w India and Russia goes for a toss...Does that mean Russia is oblligatory to supply fuel even if India conducts another nuclear test???

The new nuclear agreement is viewed here as a big takeaway and a path-breaking document. According to officials, it will go far beyond the 123 civil nuclear agreement that India sealed with the United States last year.

Under the new pact, Russia has ensured fuel supply guarantee even in the event of India conducting a nuclear test, whereas the 123 agreement with the United States clearly specifies that all kinds of nuclear cooperation will be terminated in case India goes ahead with a nuclear test.

Excerpt from India, Russia to sign N-deal 'better than 123'