Russia wants to replace US computer chips with local processors

[Firemaster]

Yet CPU continues to be the brain of the computer not GPU.Thats enough to say.

I never said that GPU is a standalone processor, CPU still will be the commander but GPGPU compute along with mature opencl, HSA would be the future coz not every one can afford Xeon Phi( used in Tainhe-2 am I right?)

 

[mandrom]

I never said that GPU is a standalone processor, CPU still will be the commander but GPGPU compute along with mature opencl, HSA would be the future coz not every one can afford Xeon Phi( used in Tainhe-2 am I right?)

okay titan computer cost is 945 million $ ,tianhe-2 is 390 million$. GPGPU is not fully mature in my opinion. Tianhe-2 proves to be cheaper.

2.4 billion Yuan (US$390 million)
Tianhe-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$945 million
Titan (supercomputer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Firemaster]

Why? and who the hell are you to lecture? What Russia is doing is for national security. Intel/Amd is threat to national security and should be treated as such and dealt with stringently.Frankly, Russia should start imposing very heavy tariffs on sales of computers using intel/AMD and give necessary incentives to Kraftway.Also,the money earned by the tariffs should be used to fund the improvement of the Elbrus chips.

ah I am not lecturing, Dictators do lecture not liberals. I am with you if it is done with people having links with national security.I would say even we should take such steps for our intelligence agencies, DRDO , people linked with our nuclear program but not with people who use it for just for fun, gaming etc but don't take it as I am saying if US companies are doing it others should not challenge it, my concern is about imposing it nationwide on comon people who don't have link with national security.

 

[mandrom]

ah I am not lecturing, Dictators do lecture not liberals. I am with you if it is done with people having links with national security.I would say even we should take such steps for our intelligence agencies, DRDO , people linked with our nuclear program but not with people who use it for just for fun, gaming etc but don't take it as I am saying if US companies are doing it others should not challenge it,

My position is simple. US is involved in subverting Russia and that is proven. So Russia must pay US corps pay for it. Fun,games can be possible on Elbrus . Their way,their rules. And money generated from penalty tariffs on US corps should be sent to Russian R&D.

my concern is about imposing it nationwide on comon people who don't have link with national security.

My concern is not US products .The common people can have fun,games on Linux also . Better to wean them off US products onto indigenous ones. Plus it will generate money for R&D.If you allow US corps to have 'free' market you will be never free ,but a slave to them.They have their ways of sabotage .This h

.I would say even we should take such steps for our intelligence agencies, DRDO , people linked with our nuclear program

Unless 3d printing changes the CPU scenario ,its difficult as fabs are costly.So,it makes sense to sell indigenous products to public and impose heavy tariffs on foreign chips. Will bring money for R&D.

, Dictators do lecture not liberals

Actually ,liberals are the biggest lecturers.Dictators they tend to be too proactive,reactive,constructive,destructive ,either or all. My observations.

 

[Firemaster]

okay titan computer cost is 945 million $ ,tianhe-2 is 390 million$. GPGPU is not fully mature in my opinion. Tianhe-2 proves to be cheaper.

2.4 billion Yuan (US$390 million)
Tianhe-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$945 million
Titan (supercomputer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tianhe-2 hardware apart from processors is Chinese but manufacturing cost plus high payments of US engineers make Titan expensive imo.
But anyway Titan is made from quality K20x processors which gets high quality softwate made by NV. But Simple GTX Titan without Quadro or Tesla quality NV software which also supports CUDA is available for 1/4 cost of actual K40x and Xeon Phi.Same with R9290x for who wants cheap Open CL performance.

 

[mandrom]

Tianhe-2 hardware apart from processors is Chinese but manufacturing cost plus high payments of US engineers make Titan expensive imo.
But anyway Titan is made from quality K20x processors which gets high quality softwate made by NV. But Simple GTX Titan without Quadro or Tesla quality NV software which also supports CUDA is available for 1/4 cost of actual K40x and Xeon Phi.Same with R9290x for who wants cheap Open CL performance.

Proof please for this.

Tianhe-2 hardware apart from processors is Chinese but manufacturing cost plus high payments of US engineers make Titan expensive imo.

I think US is testing unproven tech on titan .Thats why its very expensive.

 

[Beidou2020]

This thread proves why the Indians and Pakistanis were VERY happy to live under western colonial rule.

They have a very defeatist and negative mentality.

'Russia can't do this, China can't do that'.
'US is superior country and we worship them'.

The thing is, just because they love the Yanks and worships them as gods, they expect Russia and China to do the same. But Russia and China has always stood for independence and self-sufficiency.

South Asians, Europeans, Middle Easterners, Southeast Asians, and few East Asians (including pro-western Chinese losers) might be willing to be dependent on the west for everything and happily accept western rule and dominance forever but there are a few countries that will never accept it and always try to counter it. Not all of us love the murderous Yanks.

China is always striving to end western monopoly in all areas of technology and we have succeeded in some areas and still behind in others. But we NEVER say its beyond our capabilities and not even try and give up. We try, fail, but try again until we succeed. Russia has that same mentality. That's the difference between Russia and China and the rest. Iran too is a bit like Russia and China.

China has many companies that can replace many western tech products. NSA revelations have made China switch to domestic companies where we have our own alternatives to Yank companies.

Military, government, state-owned companies and even many private companies will be pressured to replace western tech with Chinese equivalents.

China just needs to achieve self-sufficiency and replace foreign technology with domestic technology.

CPU, GPU, software (esp. operating system) and commercial aircraft is the key technology areas China is concentrating on. A lot of money, talent, time and hardwork is put into these areas and I'm certain we will achieve self-sufficiency in these areas too.

Never ever underestimate China. Perseverance will always achieve success. Others can keep laughing.

 

[OCguy]

Proof please for this.
I think US is testing unproven tech on titan .Thats why its very expensive.

GPU compute is far from unproven. It is used extensively for professional, research, and crypto-currency mining.

My point in bringing up GPUs is because you used theoretical Dual and Single FP precision as your basis for saying the "Russian" chip is as good as Intel's. That is not the way to compare non-identical silicon, and Xeon and the Core series have no real competition besides AMD, who is behind.

If you do want to use the metric your article lists, then GPU is the absolute king. You quote 50Gflops, but look at the Titan-Z, dubbed a mini-supercomputer on a single PCB:

The chip features a single-precision floating-point performance figure of 4.5 TFLOP/s, and 1.3 TFLOP/s double-precision. Despite its hefty specs that include a 7.1 billion-transistor ASIC and 24 GDDR5 memory chips, NVIDIA rates the card's TDP at just 250W.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan Final Specifications, Internal Benchmarks Revealed | techPowerUp

 

[mandrom]

GPU compute is far from unproven. It is used extensively for professional, research, and crypto-currency mining.



NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan Final Specifications, Internal Benchmarks Revealed | techPowerUp

Yet ,CPU is the brain not GPU.Second,GPU has problems in complex processing . I think I was clear about it.

If you do want to use the metric your article lists, then GPU is the absolute king. You quote 50Gflops, but look at the Titan-Z, dubbed a mini-supercomputer on a single PCB:

GPU is not brain of the computer ,CPU is .

My point in bringing up GPUs is because you used theoretical Dual and Single FP precision as your basis for saying the "Russian" chip is as good as Intel's.

For what that was happening ,its pretty good. Equivalent to i5,i3 and early generation i7 of 2010-11 before Ivy Bridge i7 was implemented and very decent for a budget processor for corporate and public usage. But knowing how Rusnano is , I think you will be surprised once they close the gap in 2018.Thanks to the US govt and its madnesses ,things are going to be very spicy. Right now,Russia should work to commercialize its chips .Next step,Prove to third parties that there are not backdoors . Corporates and foreign govt will lap up Elbrus . After all data security is paramount and knowing how smart that Chubais is ,I think he will be able to market it successfully.

Thank you NSA for ruining your own industry.

NSA could have planted Permanent Backdoors in Intel And AMD Chips [Updated]
“We cannot trust” Intel and Via’s chip-based crypto, FreeBSD developers say | Ars Technica

 

[Schutz]

This thread proves why the Indians and Pakistanis were VERY happy to live under western colonial rule.

They have a very defeatist and negative mentality.

'Russia can't do this, China can't do that'.
'US is superior country and we worship them'.

The thing is, just because they love the Yanks and worships them as gods, they expect Russia and China to do the same. But Russia and China has always stood for independence and self-sufficiency.

South Asians, Europeans, Middle Easterners, Southeast Asians, and few East Asians (including pro-western Chinese losers) might be willing to be dependent on the west for everything and happily accept western rule and dominance forever but there are a few countries that will never accept it and always try to counter it. Not all of us love the murderous Yanks.

China is always striving to end western monopoly in all areas of technology and we have succeeded in some areas and still behind in others. But we NEVER say its beyond our capabilities and not even try and give up. We try, fail, but try again until we succeed. Russia has that same mentality. That's the difference between Russia and China and the rest. Iran too is a bit like Russia and China.

China has many companies that can replace many western tech products. NSA revelations have made China switch to domestic companies where we have our own alternatives to Yank companies.

Military, government, state-owned companies and even many private companies will be pressured to replace western tech with Chinese equivalents.

China just needs to achieve self-sufficiency and replace foreign technology with domestic technology.

CPU, GPU, software (esp. operating system) and commercial aircraft is the key technology areas China is concentrating on. A lot of money, talent, time and hardwork is put into these areas and I'm certain we will achieve self-sufficiency in these areas too.

Never ever underestimate China. Perseverance will always achieve success. Others can keep laughing.

Some of the new Chinese phones coming out are pretty good and are fairly well received with a good few consumers over here in the UK, I did see a story last week about some Chinese phone being pre loaded with spyware and keyloggers I think haha but it was a cheap piece of shit and serves you right if you buy crap.

Theres not alot else of tech that I would really bother with that isnt a rip off of more expensive brands at the moment though, not that they are not good products in their own right as they are but people like the reassurances of buying from reputable companies which is the reason that Chinese products, as good as they can be just need a few more big names and a decade or so of being recognised, then I think they can have a good market share. Its all about brand recognition really and that does take time, establish in Asia then slowly push into Europe, I see alot of Hauwei/ZTE phones now, they are still for people with a budget but they are establishing themselves quite well, and of course Lenovo who make phones/laptops but to be fair they have had a presence in Europe for years now.

These days to get your brand established it has to be with mobile phones/computers, no Chinese company is ever going to challenge the likes of Intel for computing or Sony for top of the line tv's, Chinese products need to push into Europe in the budget/mid range market and establish themselves, which is pretty much what im starting to see now anyway.

 

[mandrom]

Some of the new Chinese phones coming out are pretty good and are fairly well received with a good few consumers over here in the UK, I did see a story last week about some Chinese phone being pre loaded with spyware and keyloggers I think haha but it was a cheap piece of shit and serves you right if you buy crap.

Theres not alot else of tech that I would really bother with that isnt a rip off of more expensive brands at the moment though, not that they are not good products in their own right as they are but people like the reassurances of buying from reputable companies which is the reason that Chinese products, as good as they can be just need a few more big names and a decade or so of being recognised, then I think they can have a good market share. Its all about brand recognition really and that does take time, establish in Asia then slowly push into Europe, I see alot of Hauwei/ZTE phones now, they are still for people with a budget but they are establishing themselves quite well, and of course Lenovo who make phones/laptops but to be fair they have had a presence in Europe for years now.

These days to get your brand established it has to be with mobile phones/computers, no Chinese company is ever going to challenge the likes of Intel for computing or Sony for top of the line tv's, Chinese products need to push into Europe in the budget/mid range market and establish themselves, which is pretty much what im starting to see now anyway.

Loongson has 28 nm and 32 nm technology. Its pretty near to Intel and AMD. And even Intel and AMD have NSA backdoor.

I did see a story last week about some Chinese phone being pre loaded with spyware and keyloggers I think haha but it was a cheap piece of shit and serves you right if you buy crap.

Economic warfare b/w companies and nations.

 

[Developereo]

Prove to third parties that there are not backdoors . Corporates and foreign govt will lap up Elbrus

Doubt it.

Why should third countries trust Russia any more than they trust US or China?

Just because a Russian or Chinese 'Snowden" hasn't surfaced doesn't mean these governments are angels.

"Third party" claims will be worthless.

If Russia and China compete, it will be on price only -- initially.

 

[TopCat]

If anybody has any knowledge regarding micro SD card production line pls buzz me.

 

[mandrom]

Doubt it.

Why should third countries trust Russia any more than they trust US or China?

Just because a Russian or Chinese 'Snowden" hasn't surfaced doesn't mean these governments are angels.

"Third party" claims will be worthless.

If Russia and China compete, it will be on price only -- initially.

Actually,there is a lot of effort being made by Medvedvev to improve transparency and make better business environment in Russia .And his efforts are paying off.

"Third party" claims will be worthless.

That depends. Russia does not have massive data fusion centers like USA and China . That has been noticed by IT experts outside russia. Due to this ,some companies considered moving their servers to Russia

Why should third countries trust Russia any more than they trust US or China?

Just wait and see.Things are changing a lot. In next 6 years you will be surprised.

 

[Firemaster]

This thread proves why the Indians and Pakistanis were VERY happy to live under western colonial rule.

They have a very defeatist and negative mentality.

'Russia can't do this, China can't do that'.
'US is superior country and we worship them'.

Errr... If you think that Indian is me then you are wrong. Currently I am using Hawaii netconnect Modem and it is running nice and I have an another one too from Hawaii. But my concern in this thread is about imposing ban on processors and GPUs on comon people who don't carry any risk to national security. I never said indigenous developments should not be pursued but in competition.
Now that "Russia can't do this, China can't do that" comes from my atleast getting 1/3 IPC of single sandy core then that coment wasn't particular for Russia or China but for Global ARM industry and even AMD. Coz this Baikai processor is going to be based on 64-bit ARM which is a RISC processor.
Now I like the Microsoft OS for gaming which comes with x64 only ( Linux gaming yuk).

GPU is not brain of the computer ,CPU is .

That's why GPUs is/are paired with CPU and we know that and that's why NV is going to pair their next gen GPUs with 64bit ARM cpus coz they dont have x64 licnse.