Russia vs America combat jets per capita

[Yaseen1]

many russian jets are downed in Syria even by simple manpads but no u.s jet is downed by manpads which shows u.s jets are much better than russians

 

[LeGenD]

@undertakerwwefan
@pakistanipower

FYI: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-s-involvement-in-syria-proves-that-its-far-behin-1794966734

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

U.S planes are battle tested through many modern conflicts since the 90's. Russian planes are not battle tested yet.

Tested against who? Lots of them were shot down by third worlders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...tates_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

Only 1 Russia plane was ever shot down in combat since Afghanistan when anti Assad army shot down a Su-25 earlier this year.

@undertakerwwefan
@pakistanipower

FYI: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-s-involvement-in-syria-proves-that-its-far-behin-1794966734

The end justifies the means. Russia eradicated anti Assad army in all of Syria except Greater Idlib, for now. America can't even control 50% of the land in Afghanistan.

many russian jets are downed in Syria even by simple manpads but no u.s jet is downed by manpads which shows u.s jets are much better than russians

Only 1 Russia jet was downed by MANPAD in Syria. A Su-25.

U.S planes are battle tested through many modern conflicts since the 90's. Russian planes are not battle tested yet.

In Syria they are.

One glaring weakness is the lack of an advanced targeting pod for the Russian aircraft. Or any targeting pod at all. Russian aircraft currently flying in Syria do not use targeting pods like those carried by the U.S. and Western militaries. American and Western aircraft have been flying with targeting pods for decades and these systems have provided an incredible advantage during combat operations. Only recently was the newest version of the MiG-29 ‘Fulcrum’ -the MiG-35S – sighted with the T220 targeting pod while Russian aircraft in Syria performed with a mix of organic optical systems that limited performance and prevented a full range of targets from being prosecuted. India has purchased the Su-30MKI fighter jet from Russia and managed to incorporate the Litening targeting pod with its Flankers, and has done so for nearly ten years now. Malaysia is another customer who purchased a version of the Flanker - the Su-30MKM – and has adopted the French Damocles for use. Russia’s inability to produce a targeting pod comparable to Western pods is an extremely limiting factor in their aircraft’s effectiveness and targeting flexibility.

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-s-involvement-in-syria-proves-that-its-far-behin-1794966734

Targeting pods is the west's best talk about Russia planes weakness. They don't understand Russia combat philosophy. Dedicated Russia attack jets like Su-25 and Su-24 and Su-34 don't carry targeting pods. The have fuselage mounted EO targeting systems like F-117's targeting system. Su-25 has SOLT-25. Su-24 has Kaira-24. Su-34 has Platan. T220 targeting pod is developed from Platan. Targeting pods take up a hard point and adds weight. Also, satellite guided bombs have great range, all weather capability, and they don't need targeting pods to be used, they need GPS to be used.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Tested against who? Lots of them were shot down by third worlders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...tates_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

Only 1 Russia plane was ever shot down in combat since Afghanistan when anti Assad army shot down a Su-25 earlier this year.

2015 Russian Sukhoi Su-24 shootdown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown

IRAN IRAQ war

• 20 February 1986 – Iranian Air Force Fokker F27 Friendship shot down by an Iraqi Air Force MiG-23 and all 49 crew and passengers were killed.

Yom Kippur War (1973)[edit]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ofira_Air_Battle

GULF OF SIDRA INCIDENT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Sidra_incident_(1981)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_air_battle_near_Tobruk

GULF WAR
USN F/A-18s vs. IRAF MiG-21s Two F/A-18s from VFA-81 shot down two Iraqi MiG-21s, one with an AIM-7 Sparrow missile and one with an AIM-9 Sidewinder missile, in a brief dogfight with their bombs still latched on.

USAF F-15Es vs IRAF MiG-29s On the opening night of the war two Iraqi MiG-29s attempted to engage a flight of USAF F-15Es. One of the MiGs crashed while flying at low altitude but the other MiG pressed on. One of the F-15Es fired an AIM-9 Sidewinder when the MiG locked him up but missed. Several other F-15Es simultaneously tried to engage the lone MiG-29 but were unable to get the kill. One F-15E was actually flying past the Iraqi jet and maneuvered in for the kill but the pilot hesitated to take the shot because he was unsure of his wingmen's location and because he did not get a good tone with the Sidewinder missile.

19 January 1991 USAF F-15Cs vs. IRAF MiG-25s In a brief dogfight, two F-15Cs engaged and shot down two Iraqi MiG-25s attempting to engage them, both using AIM-7 missiles. One was destroyed by Captain Rick Tuleni and the second by Captain Larry Pitts.

26 January 1991 USAF F-15Cs vs. IRAF MiG-23s In what is considered a textbook "beyond visual range" or BVR kill, four MiG-23s took off from an Iraqi airbase. One of them turned back with mechanical problems, however the other three pressed on. Four F-15Cs were flying when AWACS reported the MiGs. The four F-15s lined up, were assigned targets and fired AIM-7 missiles at all of them, destroying all three MiGs within seconds of each other. Only three of the F-15C pilots were granted kills, as the fourth missile didn't reach the MiG until after it had already been brought down.

Iraqi No-Fly zone (1991-2003)

• 20 March 1991 – USAF F-15C vs. IRAF Su-22 – In accordance with the ceasefire, an F-15C shoots down an Iraqi Su-22 bomber with an AIM-9 missile.
• 27 December 1992 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-25 – A MiG-25 crossed the no-fly zone and an F-16D shot it down with an AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. It is the first kill with an AIM-120, and also the first USAF F-16 kill.
• 17 January 1993 – USAF F-16 vs. IRAF MiG-23 – A USAF F-16C shoots down a MiG-23 when the MiG locks the F-16 up.
• 17 January 1993 – USAF F-16s vs. IRAF Su-22s – Two IRAF Su-22 "Fitters" open fire on two USAF F-16s in protest of the no-fly zones. No aircraft are damaged in the encounter.

NATO BOMBING OF Yugoslavia

• • 5 January 1999 – USAF F-15Cs and USN F-14Ds vs. IRAF MiG-25s – A group of four Iraqi MiG-25s crossed the no-fly zones and sparked a dogfight with two patrolling F-15Cs and two patrolling F-14Ds. A total of six missiles were fired at the MiGs, none of which hit them. The MiGs then bugged out.
  • 9 September 1999 – USN F-14 vs IRAF MiG-23 – A lone MiG-23 crossed the no-fly zone heading towards a flight of F-14s. One F-14 fired an AIM-54 Phoenix at the MiG but missed and the MiG headed back north.
  • 5 January 1999 – USAF F-15Cs and USN F-14Ds vs. IRAF MiG-25s – A group of four Iraqi MiG-25s crossed the no-fly zones and sparked a dogfight with two patrolling F-15Cs and two patrolling F-14Ds. A total of six missiles were fired at the MiGs, none of which hit them. The MiGs then bugged out.
  • 9 September 1999 – USN F-14 vs IRAF MiG-23 – A lone MiG-23 crossed the no-fly zone heading towards a flight of F-14s. One F-14 fired an AIM-54 Phoenix at the MiG but missed and the MiG headed back north.
  
  KARGIL war
  
  (2) 27 May 1999 – During the Kargil War, one Indian MiG-27 was lost together with a MiG-21 while supporting an Indian ground offensive in the Kashmir region.

Second Chechen War (1999–2009)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_aircraft_losses_in_the_Second_Chechen_War

Russo-Georgian War (August 2008)[edit]

• 9 August 2008 – a Russian Tu-22M3 was shot down in South Ossettiaby a Georgian Buk-M1 surface-to-air-missile system during the Russo-Georgian War. Three of the four crew members were killed.

Syrian war

• 20 June 2012 – SyAAF Mil Mi-8 helicopter was shot down over Idlib.[5]
• • [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roundel_of_the_Syrian_Air_Force.svg']
  • 13 August 2012 – The first loss of a Syrian Arab Air Force fixed-wing aircraft was recorded on 13 August 2012 when a MiG-23 was filmed catching fire in flight, while automatic gunfire was heard on the background while the fighter aircraft was flying at low altitude in a level flight. The pilot ejected, and was captured and interrogated by the rebels on video.[7]
  • • 30 August 2012 - The first loss of a MiG-21 recorded. Its registration was 2271. It was likely downed on take off or landing at Abu Dhuhur air base, under siege by rebels, by heavy machine gun fire.[10]
    • 4 September 2012 - A second MiG-21, registered 2280, was shot down and recorded on video. It was likely downed on take off or landing at Abu Dhuhur air base, under siege by rebels, by KPV 14.5 mm machine gun fire.[11]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Syrian_Civil_War
    
  Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen (2015–present)[edit]
  
  [/URL]
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...g_the_Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention_in_Yemen

Sorry to burst your bubble kid @undertakerwwefan

Only 1 Russia jet was downed by MANPAD in Syria. A Su-25.

And other by long range AAMs @undertakerwwefan

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

2015 Russian Sukhoi Su-24 shootdown

That doesn't count. That was an ambush, not a combat.

 

[Ultima Thule]

That doesn't count. That was an ambush, not a combat.

whether it ambush or not still consider a combat loss, because 2 jets fighting each other @undertakerwwefan , i'm trying to prove your lovely Soviet/Russian jet are more prone to SAMs & AAMs, Even to their own SAMs and AAMs
@undertakerwwefan

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

whether it ambush or not still consider a combat loss, because 2 jets fighting each other @undertakerwwefan , i'm trying to prove your lovely Soviet/Russian jet are more prone to SAMs & AAMs, Even to their own SAMs and AAMs
@undertakerwwefan

Su-24 was not fighting F-16. Su-24 never saw F-16.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Su-24 was not fighting F-16. Su-24 never saw F-16.

So there were no Air defense system (radar, AWACS, SAMs) in syria to guide the Su-24 to get out of the way of F-16 or engage F-16 with SAMs @undertakerwwefan

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

So there were no Air defense system (radar, AWACS, SAMs) in syria to guide the Su-24 to get out of the way of F-16 or engage F-16 with SAMs @undertakerwwefan

Russians did not expect Turks to shoot a Russia plane. Not even Americans ever dare to shoot a tooth pick at Russians.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Russia did not expect Turkey to shoot a Russia plane. Not even Americans dare to shoot a tooth pick at Russia.

Expected or surprised it doesn't matters, their Air defense network (Early warning radar) to detect a threats is working 24/7 in syria, so your Claims it surprised ambushed is absurd and ridiculous @undertakerwwefan
Americans and Russians are not in syria for engage each other but syria is the playing ground for both parties
(USA + Russia) to test their new weapons @undertakerwwefan

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Expected or surprised it doesn't matters, their Air defense network (Early warning radar) to detect a threats is working 24/7 in syria,

They only deployed S-400 and Su-35S after the incident. Before that they did not bother with air defense. Anyway, it's a one time incident that will never happen again.

 

[Ultima Thule]

They only deployed S-400 and Su-35S after the incident. Before that they did not bother with air defense. Anyway, it's a one time incident that will never happen again.

What a ridiculous Logic you have before the incident S-300/ Su-30 was station in syria @undertakerwwefan enjoy:

 

[LeGenD]

Tested against who? Lots of them were shot down by third worlders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...tates_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

Only 1 Russia plane was ever shot down in combat since Afghanistan when anti Assad army shot down a Su-25 earlier this year.

Vietcong received some of the best AAD equipment from USSR to negate American advantage in the air. This is apparent from the fact that they managed to shoot down even B-52 bombers which would not be possible with AAG and MANPADS.

USAF became a different beast after its experiences in Vietnam; USAF revolutionized its power projection capability and capacity by incorporating digitization, new generation of aircraft, advanced surveillance capabilities, new generation of missiles including smart bombs, BVR engagement capability in aircraft, electronic warfare, networked systems and training regime. Therefore, Vietnam is not a good example to cite in this debate.

---

Soviet air losses in Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_aircraft_losses_during_the_Soviet–Afghan_War

Mujahideen received MANPADS to counter aircraft; not much else.

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In Georgia, Russia lost 8 aircraft in a span of 5 days: one Tu-22M3 long-range bomber, one Su-24M Fencer frontal bomber, one Su-24MR Fencer E reconnaissance plane, and four Su-25 attack planes.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Vietcong received some of the best AAD equipment from USSR to negate American advantage in the air. This is apparent from the fact that they managed to shoot down even B-52 bombers which would not be possible with AAG and MANPADS.

USAF became a different beast after its experiences in Vietnam; USAF revolutionized its power projection capability and capacity by incorporating digitization, new generation of aircraft, advanced surveillance capabilities, new generation of missiles including smart bombs, BVR engagement capability in aircraft, electronic warfare and networked systems. Therefore, Vietnam is not a good example to cite in this debate.

---

Soviet air losses in Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_aircraft_losses_during_the_Soviet–Afghan_War

Mujahideen received MANPADS to counter aircraft; not much else.

---

In Georgia, Russia lost 8 aircraft in a span of 5 days: one Tu-22M3 long-range bomber, one Su-24M Fencer frontal bomber, one Su-24MR Fencer E reconnaissance plane, and four Su-25 attack planes.

@undertakerwwefan is big fan of Russian weapons for his baseless logic ,so you should ignore @undertakerwwefan to Remain safe @LeGenD

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

In Georgia, Russia lost 8 aircraft in a span of 5 days: one Tu-22M3 long-range bomber, one Su-24M Fencer frontal bomber, one Su-24MR Fencer E reconnaissance plane, and four Su-25 attack planes.

The US lost 2 Apaches, F-16, F-117 over Kosovo a third worlder with hardly any military. What's your point?