Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

[Clutch]

And this justify the destruction of Mariupol ? How exactly ?




~

Nope... But Mariupol need to get to the back of the line and wait their turn for sympathies. Those other countries/cities are ahead of the line.

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515916080811757569

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

The end is near for the AZOV batallion trapped in Azovstal Steelwork as the deadline to surrender at 11.00 am approaches.

Tupolev bombers with bunker busting bombs along with heavy artilleries and missiles are ready.

Meanwhile Russia reported that a Ukrainian transport plane carry Western arms to Odessa from Poland has just been shot down.

Zaporizhzhia where Motor Sich is located is reported now under Russian control.

 

[mmr]

City completely destroyed. How can you justify that ?

~

well at least ukraine will rebuild with russian seize assets. other countries not so lucky.

that dont justify the loss of life but silver lining

 

[jamahir]

5 B-2 bombers alone could launch 400 small diameter guided bombs in one pass at 70-100km range and hit moving targets.

How will those bombs be guided ?

Sorry, but this is not a good argument/criticism of US/NATO power.

What you 'think' about the Iraqi military came from the benefits of hindsight that the Iraqi military was defeated. I doubt that you were around when Desert Shield was created but if you were, would you have thought the same way, that the US/NATO would defeat the Iraqi military with so little casualties and weeks? No, you would not have thought so.

So what are we to make of Desert Storm? US/NATO airpower preceded the ground war. Desert Storm air campaign was about four weeks. When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we already knew the air campaign would last weeks. How many depends on battle damages data, but we did planned on weeks. The battle damage data and assessments were what you left out in trying to defend the Russian campaign. Could the Iraq ground war started at the three weeks mark? Yes. Could it have been at the 8 or 12 weeks, or even six months point? Yes. But after four weeks, US/allies commanders decided that the Iraqi military was sufficiently degraded to begin the ground war. So just because we took four weeks to soften up the Iraqi ground forces does not mean the air campaign was incompetently executed.

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/ASPJ/journals/Chronicles/sopko.pdf

Damage assessment was not a thought out process when planning began for Desert Storm. The intelligence community with its high-speed surveillance technology, thought they had a plan. The community disregarded the traditional art of damage assessment (analysis of pilot reports, gunsight photos, follow up reconnaissance images/reports, and human resources intelligence (HUMINT) that trickled in from behind enemy lines) and tried to make it into a science relying primarily on national reconnaissance. It was not, however, prepared for the pace and rate of sortie generation that occurred. When intelligence analysts did get timely products, they did not have vital information such as time over target or desired mean points of impact (DMPI) which are critical when assessing damage.​

What happened was that the BDA was too slow in comparison to how the air campaign was going. Further, there was a language problem.

Gen. Schwarzkopf, the Joint Force Commander for Desert Storm, once remarked during an evening intelligence update "well, if we knocked out one span of a four-span bridge so that anything that tried to cross fell into the Euphrates, you intelligence guys would tell me the bridge was only twenty-five percent damaged."​

​

In the Conduct of the Persian Gulf War: Final Report to Congress, 1992, the damage assessment process at the theater level was characterized as suffering from a lack of adequate systems, procedures, and manpower and had difficulty trying to keep pace with the size speed and scope of the air campaign.​

What does %25 damaged really mean in actual combat situations? For the front line, that bridge was effectively KIA-ed but the language in the report was misleading. In the final analysis, US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm remains THE standard for other air forces to follow, IF they can, that US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm were not incompetently executed but as yrs later proved, we were too competent.

In every war, every military looks for innovations from the combatants, and in this case, the world's militaries had Desert Storm level expectations for one combatant: Russia. And Russia failed, specifically the VKS failed -- miserably. There is no longer any valid comparison between Desert Storm and now. Russia war doctrines have airpower in a limited role, what we call 'airborne artillery'. Imagine an air force comprises mostly of A-10s. That is how Russia sees its airpower -- as a component of the ground forces. And even in this limited role, the VKS still failed as the Russian Army suffered one tank loss after another. The VKS is so bad in Ukraine that everyone falls back to Desert Storm, meaning Russia as a major military is no longer a valid example to follow but NOT to follow.

1. Well, I was talking about the 2003 invasion but you are saying that even in 1991 the Iraqi military was formidable despite just having been through eight years of war with Iran ( that war being unfortunate ) ?

2. How come Kiev's international airport is still operational and the Russians have not bombed it ? How are NATO leaders able to freely enter Kiev ? I have read in these pages that the Russians may now start to target administrative facilities in Kiev that may include the international airport too and the roads leading into Kiev.

Russia is merely defending Donbass from USA Nazi Bandera. Article 51 of UN Charter gives Russia every right to do so. It is USA Nazi Bandera that is killing civilians.

I don't understand how @Deino gave you a negative rating for this. It is undeniable that Zelensky's military is full of Bandera and Azov Nazis who didn't hesitate to commit crimes against Ukranian citizens and against the now-independent two republics.

 

[Menthol]

Ask an Iraqi, Syrian, Libyan, Palestinian, Yemeni... They might answer that.

I don't think the West is care much about it.

And they don't care about Ukraine as well.

Because they will do it again.

Everything is just lip service.

You'll see.

After the Ukraine-Russia war is over, why do you think the West is not going to start another war?

If it's not a war, then it's an economic sanction or riots that make other people live as suffering as Ukrainians.

 

[Deino]

I don't understand how @Deino gave you a negative rating for this. It is undeniable that Zelensky's military is full of Bandera and Azov Nazis who didn't hesitate to commit crimes against Ukranian citizens and against the now-independent two republics.

No-one denies this, but to set the Nazis in Ukraine equal to all Ukrainian peoples and equal them as the USA, so de fact the USA = Nazis is a lie since it is plain wrong. As such this is spreading of stupid propaganda.

 

[Wergeland]

There are mods on PDF who hand out negative rating to members who are on russian side or present the russian angle. But not once have i seen mods give negative ratings to members who represent western angle.

Being staunchly pro NATO myself, still i think this is a unfortunate development for PDF.

 

[jamahir]

No-one denies this, but to set the Nazis in Ukraine equal to all Ukrainian peoples and equal them as the USA, so de fact the USA = Nazis is a lie since it is plain wrong. As such this is spreading of stupid propaganda.

@Piotr, I respect your positions but I agree with Deino because not all Ukrainians are Nazis - many of the civilians suffer because of Zelensky's people and they also don't refuse assistance from the Russian military and remember Babushka Z ? To avoid textual confusions I always write "Western governments" instead of "The West" because it is those governments to be criticized. There will be people in the West - many or few - who don't accept the systems imposed upon them by their governments. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement in USA in 2011 which went to many other countries in the Western bloc. These protestors rejected their governance systems and wanted progressive political and socio-economic systems. I think you wanted to write about Zelensky's people and USA / NATO governments but angrily wrote "USA Bandera Nazi" in an uncompleted form, yes ?

 

[Piotr]

In last 8 years according to some narrative 14000 civilian died in Donbas and lohansk

But let not talk about that what about Libya.

Now US trolls suddenly "forgot" about Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and plethora of other countries USA attacked. USA killed tens of millions of civilians. But guys from the Ku Klux Klan have nothing against killing people in praces like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

Russia only demanded that US run regime in Kiev adhere to Minsk Agreement, regime in Kiev itself signed. But US run regime in Kiev refused. They contiued to shell Donbass and kill civilians there and USA and the West supported this shelling. For years Russia recognized Donbass as part of the Ukraine, but since US run regime in Kiev contunued to kill civilians there, Russia has no other choice than to help Donbass.

@Piotr, I respect your positions but I agree with Deino because not all Ukrainians are Nazis - many of the civilians suffer because of Zelensky's people and they also don't refuse assistance from the Russian military and remember Babushka Z ? To avoid textual confusions I always write "Western governments" instead of "The West" because it is those governments to be criticized. There will be people in the West - many or few - who don't accept the systems imposed upon them by their governments. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement in USA in 2011 which went to many other countries in the Western bloc. These protestors rejected their governance systems and wanted progressive political and socio-economic systems. I think you wanted to write about Zelensky's people and USA / NATO governments but angrily wrote "USA Bandera Nazi" in an uncompleted form, yes ?

I have never said that all Ukrainians are Nazis. Ukrainians are in fact victim of Nazi Bandera ideology USA founded and supported.

 

[sammuel]

Nope... But Mariupol need to get to the back of the line and wait their turn for sympathies. Those other countries/cities are ahead of the line.

Did not know you had to ration sympathy now . Stupid argument.


~

 

[vizier]

Recently Zelensky said the negotiations would be off if Mariopol is taken out completely. I dont know what is the stance of Russia about this but if the operation is postphoned several days 400-800 militia+soldiers trapped there wont be a security issue and there is the opportunity of negotiation table again. Also transfer of heavy weapons can be asked by Russia to be delayed entering from Polish border while Russia regroup inside its border during negotiations. That can be an opportunity to consider.

 

[Viet]

Well .... It seems like Russia has just exposed how incompetent their army is and how useless it's military doctrine is for for the modern battlefield.

They only face-saving Russia has left is to start carpet bombs and using large Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOA) aka "Mother of All Bombs".

Perhaps is Russia is capable of flattening cities like America did to Fallujah then they may have a way out now.

Yes that’s surprising even shocking. Russia military as second best in the world? Probably a mix of corruption, incompetence, propaganda, delusion. Putin is a ex spy he wastes no time in economics he spends time, money and resources in military complex, security apparatus. And this disaster. Unbelievable.
There is no hope to win the war. The Ukrainian resistance is hard. NATO is behind Zelinskki. For Putin to steal little territory of Ukraine he will increase terror bombings. There is no doubt.

 

[Paul2]

what happened to the Kherson counterattack you predicted? where did it go?

Not yet. The defensive picket around it is destroyed, but no attack on Kherson with regular troops despite Ukrainians holding towns around it.

There been 1 skirmish on the southwest of the city.

 

[Piotr]

@Piotr, I respect your positions but I agree with Deino because not all Ukrainians are Nazis - many of the civilians suffer because of Zelensky's people and they also don't refuse assistance from the Russian military and remember Babushka Z ? To avoid textual confusions I always write "Western governments" instead of "The West" because it is those governments to be criticized. There will be people in the West - many or few - who don't accept the systems imposed upon them by their governments. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement in USA in 2011 which went to many other countries in the Western bloc. These protestors rejected their governance systems and wanted progressive political and socio-economic systems. I think you wanted to write about Zelensky's people and USA / NATO governments but angrily wrote "USA Bandera Nazi" in an uncompleted form, yes ?

Bandera was colaborator of Nazi Germany. He and Germans killed hundreds of thousands of Polish civilians in Volhynia region. After the war Bandera and his followers started to work for the USA. Bandera follower Stecko for example setttled after the war in the USA.
Actually many war criminals from Germany went after the war to the USA, Wernher "von" Braun is one of examples.