What's new

Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.
Politics aside, and purely from a military perspective, the losses suffered by the Russians are absolutely appalling. It's astonishing to see modern weapons being used by incompetent soldiers and commanders who seem to have few tactical responses to the strategy deployed by the Ukrainians, I've never seen anything like this in the modern age. The Russians don't seem to be bothered at all by throwing away armour, equipment, and men. No doubt the Ukrainians are suffering equal, if not more heavier losses, but the Russians haven't achieved much to show for their losses, while the Ukrainians can at least claim they've checked the key Russian objectives.
Keep this in mind the next time anyone criticize/mock the US military as never fought a peer. Now we find out the Russian military have never been a US peer. Who is our next 'peer' ? Anyone ? Anyone ?
 
. .
I completely disagree with your main points. For example the Saudis are trained in the western style and have all American equipment, American training, all modern, state of the art weaponry, best money can buy, yet in Yemen they have failed miserably for 7+ years. Their Abrams even got annihilated so often that they stopped sending them in.

There are alot of variables involved. For example, motivation, morale, tactics, logistics of opposing forces. Also Russia has a long and deep routed history with Ukraine, are you surprised that they don't want to absolutely pummel the place like what the US did in Iraq killing 1 million civilians ?

It's different when most of your citizens can't even find a country on a map as opposed to having to be neighbors with a country for the rest of your existence.

The mainstream media finally got around to acknowledging what air force types like meself have been saying for weeks -- that the VKS sucks and its suckness IS THE MAIN CAUSE of the shittiness of the war.


Now, I understand that 'theatlantic' is a paywall site with limited free article access, so am just going to quote relevant passages from the article written by Phillips O'Brien and Edward Stringer:

Phillips Payson O’Brien is a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is the author of How the War Was Won: Air-Sea Power and Allied Victory in World War II. Edward Stringer is a retired Royal Air Force air marshal and a senior fellow at Policy Exchange.​

To start off...

Airpower should have been one of Russia’s greatest advantages over Ukraine. With almost 4,000 combat aircraft and extensive experience bombing targets in Syria, Georgia, and Chechnya, Russia’s air force was expected to play a vital role in the invasion, allowing the Russian army to plunge deep into Ukraine, seize Kyiv, and destroy the Ukrainian military. But more than two months into the war, Vladimir Putin’s air force is still fighting for control of the skies.​
The Russian air force’s failure is perhaps the most important, but least discussed, story of the military conflict so far.

I said this several hundreds pages ago. There is no 'perhaps' about this failure. The VKS was THE point of failure. :rolleyes:

In the history of war, there are always points of no return, meaning if a military does not possess this <something> the odds of losing a war trespass greater than 50/50. The horse, the bow and arrow, gunpowder, or the tank, just to name a few. But of all these points of no return, the greatest of them all is the ability to attack from the 3rd dimension. Make no mistake about this, it is not about throwing a spear or using the catapult to lob a rock. These things are sort of 'attacks' from the 3rd dimension, but they are of limited range and flexibility. The weapons of/from the 3rd dimension are the airplane and submarine.

Airpower is potentially decisive in any war, but difficult to wield effectively. Air forces are dependent on an array of technologies that require highly trained personnel who can quickly set up what amounts to an airborne military ecosystem: airborne radar stations to provide command and control, fighters to protect and police the skies, refueling aircraft to keep everyone full of gas, electronic-warfare planes to keep enemy defenses suppressed, and a range of intelligence-gatherers and attack aircraft to locate and destroy enemy forces. These sorts of combined operations involve hundreds of aircraft and thousands of people in a tightly choreographed dance that takes a lifetime to master. But when managed correctly, these overlapping operations allow a military to dominate the skies, making life much easier for the ground or naval forces below.
Unfortunately for the Russians, the recent modernization of the Russian air force, although intended to enable it to conduct modern combined operations, was mostly for show. The Russians wasted money and effort on corruption and inefficiency. Though much was made of the flashy new equipment, such as the much-hyped SU-34 strike aircraft, the Russian air force continues to suffer from flawed logistics operations and the lack of regular, realistic training. Above all, the autocratic Russian kleptocracy does not trust low-ranking and middle-ranking officers, and so cannot allow the imaginative, flexible decision making that NATO air forces rely upon.​

Having the weapon is 1/2 of the equation. Knowing how to wield it is the other 1/2. Unfortunately, the VKS is the first 1/2 and not the second 1/2. It is now clear the VKS is mostly an airshow air force.

Instead of working to control the skies, Russia’s air force has mostly provided air support to ground troops or bombed Ukrainian cities. In this it has followed the traditional tactics of a continental power that privileges land forces.​
“Russia has never fully appreciated the use of airpower beyond support to ground forces,” David A. Deptula, a retired U.S. Air Force lieutenant general, told us. “As a result, Russia, in all its wars, has never conceived of or run a strategic air campaign.”

It means the VKS is what other Western air forces said in the past, and that I repeated here, that the Russian military view airpower, or at least Russian airpower, as little more than 'airborne artillery'. It means the VKS is independent only in name but not in doctrines. It also means against NATO airpower, the VKS would have been dead on day one, like how the Iraqi Air Force was back in Desert Storm.

Russian aircraft are instead left flying their straightforward missions, many of which use single aircraft without the mutual support from combined air operations that would be expected in an advanced NATO air force. The pilots are given a target; fly in quickly to attack it, in many cases relying on unguided munitions to try to hit their target; and then fly out and try to not get shot down. They are not allowed to act flexibly within their commanders’ intent to achieve a mission. They have task orders and they execute them, come what may.

How many air forces in the world took training from the Soviet Union and later Russia?

The West has much to learn from Ukraine’s successes, Deptula told us. “We have become so dominant in the air that we have never had to think through how we would use airpower if we were the inferior force,” he said. “Ukraine is posing us some very interesting questions that we should seriously consider, if only to understand how a clever opponent would take us on.”

Absolutely Ukraine will teach US and we will learn much from them. But think back to the previous question of how many air forces in the world trained under Soviet/Russia/China airpower doctrines? The Soviet/Russia model is now a proven failure. So what does the China model have to offer when China learned from the Soviet Union?

The bottom line now is that the Western concept of wielding airpower is preeminent with no credible alternatives, and if you want to learn our ways, it will cost you.

I don't know, all I see is super high oil prices in the west, inflation and the risk of a recession. Meanwhile the Ruble is now stronger than before sanctions. If sanctions could not break Iran and Iran recovered to pre-sanction levels economically in 3 years, you think these western sanctions are going to break Russia. I highly doubt it. If you sanction an industrious nation, they will only become more self sufficient.

Rebuild Russia? The country is in shambles. Energy infrastructure build in 50 years now obsolete forever. People face even more poverty than ever before. Young and educated people run away.


Putin made Russia a chinese colony with no alternative for Russia. It has to sell its products with high Discounts and has to accept whatever is offered.


Putin created Ukraine. It now has its war for independence and will never be within the russian orbit any longer. Even Putin realized this.


As for AfD i do listen and laugh about them. Thats the core about democracy. AfD has such marginal numbers that they play no role in politics.


My guess is, that Putins mind is destroyed by medication.



Levante is not arab. Arabs were as much invaders there as Romans.
 
.
But have you looked at the map lately and what's actually happening on the ground ? I mean the Russians have taken more territory in Ukraine than the total land mass of great britain and in the Donbas they have several pincers 20-30 km away from Kramatorsk. I don't think this is going well for Ukraine despite what you hear on the western mainstream media and despite what Zelensky raves about daily.

Like this is literally the president of Ukraine. He danced in f#cking heels man. You know that according to the Pandora papers he's worth 1.3 billion and has a 30 million dollar villa in Florida ?


1652199213532.png


 
.
I completely disagree with your main points. For example the Saudis are trained in the western style and have all American equipment, American training, all modern, state of the art weaponry, best money can buy, yet in Yemen they have failed miserably for 7+ years. Their Abrams even got annihilated so often that they stopped sending them in.

There are alot of variables involved. For example, motivation, morale, tactics, logistics of opposing forces. Also Russia has a long and deep routed history with Ukraine, are you surprised that they don't want to absolutely pummel the place like what the US did in Iraq killing 1 million civilians ?
Then go ahead and pick a fight with US instead of Saudi Arabia. And find out the hard way the differences.

It's different when most of your citizens can't even find a country on a map as opposed to having to be neighbors with a country for the rest of your existence.
When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, I barely knew anything about Iraq other than that the country is in the ME. But here is where this criticism of US fails spectacularly: That we do not need to know anything about any country to fight its armed forces.

No one does.

 
.
Then go ahead and pick a fight with US instead of Saudi Arabia. And find out the hard way the differences.


When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, I barely knew anything about Iraq other than that the country is in the ME. But here is where this criticism of US fails spectacularly: That we do not need to know anything about any country to fight its armed forces.

No one does.

Americans have something in common with Iraqis. Both were attacked and subdued by far superior war machine that had no clue about locals.

By Americans i of course mean Native Americans.
 
.
Keep this in mind the next time anyone criticize/mock the US military as never fought a peer. Now we find out the Russian military have never been a US peer. Who is our next 'peer' ? Anyone ? Anyone ?

The last time you fought a peer was in WWII against Germany and Japan. You lost to the North Vietnamese and Vietcong, and to the Taliban in Afghanistan, as did the USSR in Afghanistan. The USSR at its height was a peer to the US, the Russian armed forces have been in steady decline since the USSR collapsed, they haven't even really developed and fielded much in the way of new weapons or doctrine, training, and capability. If you want to fight a real peer, pick a fight with China. Your hollow "victories" have mostly come against the likes of Iraq, and only then weakened after over a decade of crippling sanctions and no support to Iraq like the Ukrainians are receiving now, or the Vietcong received from Russia, or when the US supported the Taliban and Al-Qaeda against the USSR.
 
. .
But have you looked at the map lately and what's actually happening on the ground ? I mean the Russians have taken more territory in Ukraine than the total land mass of great britain and in the Donbas they have several pincers 20-30 km away from Kramatorsk. I don't think this is going well for Ukraine despite what you hear on the western mainstream media and despite what Zelensky raves about daily.

Like this is literally the president of Ukraine. He danced in f#cking heels man. You know that according to the Pandora papers he's worth 1.3 billion and has a 30 million dollar villa in Florida ?


View attachment 842859



How dare you mention how much territory Russians have captured!! They are supposed to be beaten back to Moscow already...

Ukrainians and the Western media is worse than Zalinski dancing in heels. They have lost their marbles and come up with the stories so ridiculous I bet even the person writing it probably cannot believe he is writing so much BS. Anyways 260000 soldiers dead as claimed in the twitter world but yet few hundred bodies shown.......

American aid has never won the war....take for example Vietnam and Afghanistan........Just like Talibans in Afghanistan Russians are moving around and using American supplied anti tank missiles and using them against the Ukrainians ....pretty ironic if you ask me....




Means 90% of money will go to American contractors and military industry inside the USA. This is what they needed so badly....another war to make money. The remaining 5 percent will go to the Russians in the form of captured Ukrainian equipment and last five percent in the pockets of Ukrainian Neo Nazi Zalinski.
 
. .
Rebuild Russia? The country is in shambles. Energy infrastructure build in 50 years now obsolete forever. People face even more poverty than ever before. Young and educated people run away.


Putin made Russia a chinese colony with no alternative for Russia. It has to sell its products with high Discounts and has to accept whatever is offered.


Putin created Ukraine. It now has its war for independence and will never be within the russian orbit any longer. Even Putin realized this.


As for AfD i do listen and laugh about them. Thats the core about democracy. AfD has such marginal numbers that they play no role in politics.


My guess is, that Putins mind is destroyed by medication.



Levante is not arab. Arabs were as much invaders there as Romans.
Russia imports from China collapsed by 25 percent in April. Russians population getting poor. Can’t afford Huawei phones. Meanwhile Putin sucks all money he earns from selling oil and gas into his palace.
 
. . . .
Do the Russian soldiers ever simply look up?! How can you fail to spot a Quadro copter hovering above you with a few mortar rounds dangling from it?! lol
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom