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Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments

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thetutle said:
As for overthrowing Saddam, well he thought he could redraw the Middle East borders
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As far as i remember, 1990 was the beginning of horizontal oil drilling. This technic was then used by Kuwait to connect to a oilfield on the iraki side. Saddam try to get help from US but US shit on him and Kuwait did not stop sucking iraki oil. Then Saddam declares war and invade Kuwait. After the Irak war 1 the West recognize a change of the border between Irak and Kuwait so that iraki oilfield now is Kuwait ground.
 
F-22Raptor said:
The Russian Air Force will soon have to conduct more and longer sorties over Ukrainian air space. Today, the Pentagon stated Russia has only a little more than half of their air launched cruise missiles remaining. Best guess is they have 250-450 missiles remaining. Dangerous situation for the Russian Air Force.
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Hopefully half of what they have left is broke and don't work :laugh:
 
thetutle said:
Without a doubt, NATO and US in particular wanted this to happen so badly. They want to hammer russia hard. They wanted an excuse to take their 300 billion and its more and more money every day. UK was waiting for this for a very long time. Russia used nuclear and biological weapons on UK soil to assassinate people.

They wanted to hurt russia bad. Australia lost people when a civilian airliner was shot down and made it clear to Putin that Australia is sending lethal arms that will kill Russians.

They could not wait for this strategic error by Putin. The military industrial complex has wet itself from joy.

US is directing artillery fire for gods sake. Of course the final aim is to rob Russia of its great natural resource wealth. And you know what, it couldn't have happened to a better candidate.

As we said before, if America made mistakes, it does not excuse russia. America has not changed any borders by force since 1945. When they stole German lands.

One exception is Kosovo. it took 10,000 sq km form Serbia and gave it independence. Thats tiny amount of land. which should never have been Serbian in the first place.

Does this give anyone the right to redraw European borders? heck no.

As for overthrowing Saddam, well he thought he could redraw the Middle East borders, attacked 2 countries, killed a million muslims. he gambled and like most gamblers he lost.

There is another gambler here now who thinks he can redraw borders. Lets see what happens.
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Honestly, if one reads your post a bit carefully, you are advocating 'exceptions' and 'exceptionalism'. You and I will continue to differ on some issues.
 
thetutle said:
Yes muslims should choose who their leaders are. They deserve that democratic right. I am glad we can all agree on that.

Well do you think Crimea is Russian land? A land that was 90% muslim Tatar who were killed and genocided by Russians. You consider that really Russian land?

Well Russia instead of allowing ukranins to vote for their leaders seems to be killing them, and installing their own unelected military governors right now.

In Bosnia, Russia is funding and arming a Serbian separatist that had promised to attack Bosnian army formations in the Serbian majority part of the country. The Russian ambassador is threatening to attack Bosnia if we join NATO. On national TV. NATO and EU sent extra troops to Bosnia to counter this threat and ensure stability.

Ok, Bosnia does not have to be a western country. We can be an Islamic country. Its definitely a muslim majority country. Or we can even be a sub Saharan country if you want. But we deserve to have freedom and democracy, to choose who our leaders are. To not live under military occupation from a rogue nuclear power. And to freely choose our alliances. The west lets us make theses choices. Russia does not. It wants a veto over what alliance we will belong to.

Don't we deserve to make our own choices?
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Again you keep mixing up Russian empire with soviet republics and modern russia. Essentially you are not holding anyone accountable but raging against history.

i dont know about crimea but i know the entire central asian republics which were occupied by Russian empire have preserved their religion and culture and turned in to soviet republics. They all seceded from USSR in to Kazhakstan, krygyz, uzbek etc in to sovereign countries.

i know there are some mongol khanates who themselves converted to islam pretty late and were absorbed in to russian empire in 13th and 14th century. There is no evidence of genocide of ordinary people and russia still has significant muslim minorities. And indeed if we are going that far behind in history then we should be asking a lot of countries in new world too.

i hope bonsians and serbs figure out their differences. Its a wise idea not to join NATO though and make peace with your neighbors.
 
Ich said:
As far as i remember, 1990 was the beginning of horizontal oil drilling. This technic was then used by Kuwait to connect to a oilfield on the iraki side. Saddam try to get help from US but US shit on him and Kuwait did not stop sucking iraki oil. Then Saddam declares war and invade Kuwait. After the Irak war 1 the West recognize a change of the border between Irak and Kuwait so that iraki oilfield now is Kuwait ground.
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Well the world has learned a valuable lesson from Saddam. Horizontal drilling is not a legitimate excuse to change borders with war. We will soon find out if "de-nazification" is a legitimate excuse or will it lead to ruin.
letsrock said:
i dont know about crimea but i know the entire central asian republics which were occupied by Russian empire have preserved their religion and culture and turned in to soviet republics. They all seceded from USSR in to Kazhakstan, krygyz, uzbek etc in to sovereign countries.
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Russia certainly did not genocide the Tajiks etc too much because they were too far away and the land was too inhospitable to effectively control. And they didnt have the capacity to colonise it yet. But what of the Volga Tatars. how many of them are left? They used to dominate the area in population. Now they are just a few million. And you would be against Russia invading Kazakstan and taking more muslim land right? You would be against russia expanding its borders on the Caspian sea right?

letsrock said:
i hope bonsians and serbs figure out their differences. Its a wise idea not to join NATO though and make peace with your neighbors.
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No, we will join NATO whether they like it or not. It will ensure they have peace and security too. They will throw a tantrum but eventually get over it and those serbs who are lucky enough to be citizens of Bosnia will be proud nato soldiers serving the cause of freedom and justice.
 
~

Is it not time that this stupidity ends ?

The world really does not need this world right now , it is not good to anyone including Russia. Really time to end this madness.
 
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Meengla said:
We maybe getting off topic but you are right on this: USSR was still very powerful in late 1980s and yet they (basically, the Russians) let go off their huge empire and that was unprecedented in human history and remains so. I distinctly remember some (left leaning) Pakistani columnists remarked on that aspect of the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

As for @thetutle , I believe he has good insight about eastern Europe but he is wrong to say that Russia's planning is to expand to take back the former USSR states. And he is also wrong to say that this is anything about 'freedom and democracy' or about 'sovereignty'. America has done enough blatant violations of those mighty principles and so has no right to talk about them in this conflict.
I see this conflict as a business opportunity to grab Russia's immense riches, and basically driven by the same few hundreds who make the cabal of American corporations, media agencies, and politicians who led America to the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. The rest is noise and smokescreen, if not outright hypocritic.
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USSR was ruled by Ukrainians (Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev were all Ukrainian) so they didn't care too much about what happened to Russia.

Ukraine was richer than Russia in the Soviet days as they had all the heavy industry while Russia mostly had resource extraction.
 
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thetutle said:
Well the world has learned a valuable lesson from Saddam. Horizontal drilling is not a legitimate excuse to change borders with war. We will soon find out if "de-nazification" is a legitimate excuse or will it lead to ruin.

Russia certainly did not genocide the Tajiks etc too much because they were too far away and the land was too inhospitable to effectively control. And they didnt have the capacity to colonise it yet. But what of the Volga Tatars. how many of them are left? They used to dominate the area in population. Now they are just a few million. And you would be against Russia invading Kazakstan and taking more muslim land right? You would be against russia expanding its borders on the Caspian sea right?


No, we will join NATO whether they like it or not. It will ensure they have peace and security too. They will throw a tantrum but eventually get over it and those serbs who are lucky enough to be citizens of Bosnia will be proud nato soldiers serving the cause of freedom and justice.
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OK in 200 BC China could project power to Mongolia and conquer then Sinicize the Xiongnu (Huns) but Russia with 20th century tech could not assimilate Tajikistan if they wanted to. Lol OK.

Serbs lucky to be Bosnian? Do you know which is the richer country??
 
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