Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[kingQamaR]

Looks like the ongoing Ukrainian counterstrike has flopped.

Ukraine needs a well-equipped Air Force, a large number of well-equipped HIMARS, and expanded air defense portfolio to turn the tide of war.

Had the West not dithered the Russians would not have had time to build up their defences and by now the Ukrainians might have achieved a breakthrough. Its extremely hard to break through such deep defences and minefields without aerial dominance. No • NATO country would even contemplate such an offensive without total air supremacy. It seems to me that most of these Ukrainian attacks on the periphery are by drone strikes and will not detract from the main effort but play a useful part in undermining Russian logistics and civilian morale. I know the Americans tend to favour a more direct approach in their strategy but I see nothing inherently wrong in combining it with an indirect strategy. There is a long way to go in this conflict and we must stand by Ukraine which is making such a huge sacrifice for all our freedom and not just their own.

 

[kingQamaR]

Depends on how you see it.

Ukraine had taken Robodyne, which mean they control the road in and out of Tokmak, to this, Ukraine has been trying to degrade the situation around Tokmak for months, looks like they are trying to repeat what happened to Kherson in Tokmak. Which is just inside the 40 click radius.

It really depends on whether or not Russia can counterattack that area, otherwise I am going to repeat what I said same time last year, Russia probably cannot hold on to Tokmak after the winter, and if they lose Tokmak, then that's very bad news for the Russian in 2024.

These are the same people that said Ukraine didn't need air superiority or to train their fighters on new jets to take back their skies.
Guess what? You can't advance without air superiority. You can't advance if the enemy has access to supplies and reinforcements that allow them to stay dug in. An entrenched enemy is the hardest one to remove: of course it's going to take a long time. The US and NATO allowed this situation to occur by not supplying Ukraine with what it asked for and for undersupplying Ukraine for what they did give.

 

[The SC]

The Fall | The Russians Counterattack On Every Section Of The Front Line. Military Summary 2023.10.3​

 

[RoadAmerica]

He is free to use all his power to show the world that he lacks integrity and class, appealing to the lowest common denominator like a teenage troll.
In all honesty, he is a fucking moron.

Lol no different than most heads of state. His iq is far from moronic

Enforcement of borders is useless when the problem is caused by people overstaying their visas.
View attachment 957991
Seems like illegal immigrants rose sharply under Bush (R) and declined under Obama (D).
Immigration to the US has nothing to do with the Russian illegal invasion.
GOP policy has everything to do with supporting the interests of Russia over the interests of the Free World. This is because a large part of the GOP opposes anything proposed by Democrats, regardless if it makes sense or not.

Illegal crossing are at a historic high, the amount of people overstaying is nothing in comparison. Hence why it’s being used as a bargaining chip. How can anyone argue for open boarders here but boarder integrity in Ukraine it’s laughable

 

[kingQamaR]

Democrats were anti illegal immigration years ago. They only started this charade when Trump became president. I guess it's not that great to be a sanctuary state.

 

[jhungary]

These are the same people that said Ukraine didn't need air superiority or to train their fighters on new jets to take back their skies.
Guess what? You can't advance without air superiority. You can't advance if the enemy has access to supplies and reinforcements that allow them to stay dug in. An entrenched enemy is the hardest one to remove: of course it's going to take a long time. The US and NATO allowed this situation to occur by not supplying Ukraine with what it asked for and for undersupplying Ukraine for what they did give.

Well, the problem you failed to see is that unlike combat operation in NATO or even just America alone, Ukraine is probably never going to have complete air superiority, let alone air dominance, Russia still process enough air power to at least try to make Ukrainian airspace even, while it's a surprise that Russia was not able to gain air superiority outright, it's another issue to actually overcome Russia air power and air defence and for Ukraine to gain complete domain. Think about it, it takes Allied 500+ advance aircraft to subdue Saddam's air defences in the first gulf war, and Russia is not Iraq and Ukraine is not the Allied power....

Which mean the entire Air Power/Air Superiority talk for this or any counteroffensive is really a pointless thing because even if US were to transfer 100-200 F-16, and even if Ukraine have enough pilot to fly them, this is not going to even make a dent on Russia Air Domain, you probably can fly a few combat mission with relative odds but it's not going to be without casualty if Russia wanted to fight it, if they don't want to fight the air domain then that's another story, but there are virtually no chance for Ukraine to gain any air superiority, local or across the entire domain, in reality and in practicality.

Which mean it's never going to have air superiority to begin with for their counter offensive, it's not even a starting point to begin with, you probably have mistaken the parameter on how Ukraine fight and how NATO fight, they can't fight like us in NATO, they aren't us and we can't give them everything we have.

Its pandering to shortsighted nationalistic voters. Pure populism which endangers international peace but even american general interests.

Public support for Military aid for Ukraine now dropped to 43% because of rhetorics like that. Its like pre ww2 isolationalism again.

But worse, cause this time no grand effort is needed, but simply a meagre % of GDP. A sliver of defensive stocks (many created to “defend against the soviets” anyway)
Yet war-weariness is already setting in…

sad truth is this is a popularity contest like American Idol, just unlike American Idol, people died every day because of it.

You can't make policy unless you play political game, the issue here is, you need to make the party look good to be interested in something, on the other hand, this is not going to go away just because one party wants to.

That's the difference between bi-partisanism and absolute power you guys are used to in Europe, where the dominate party that form government have all the power they need, the political environment is always going to be on the middle in the US and one party need to make deal with the other even if they are holding office if you want to do anything, that's why these political game are played. This has been and continue to be since 1776.

 

[jhungary]

I respectfully disagree, freedom means he’s treated by the same rules as you and me.
Otherwise wouldn’t this be Russia?


It’s about the fact the dems will fund Ukraine no questions (ie boarder integrity) while there is no enforcement on our own boarders. Tough to argue against that one

border issue are there way longer than war in Ukraine, it's a successive government issue both Republican and Democrats, the same problem we have in the 1980 is the same problem we have now, and I can tell you this is not going to solve with a few billion dollars or like Trump said build a wall around it......If it was that simple, we would have already done that.

If you want to improve border security? Change the constitution. It has nothing to do with the war fund in Ukraine, unless you think 40 billion or so can fix the border issue that last probably in the last 40 years.........

 

[Mohsin A]

Uffffffff...To the last Ukrainian. The Clown of Kiev doesn't give a shyt though, he's too busy siphoning Bidens Money whilst taking his cut.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1708819183767892360

They're running out of Nazis so now they look elsewhere....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1709223462756073672

 

[Mohsin A]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1709305792417894792

https://twitter.com/x/status/1709124436333355452

https://twitter.com/x/status/1708864623556874343

https://twitter.com/x/status/1708921335928230214

 

[kingQamaR]

Well, the problem you failed to see is that unlike combat operation in NATO or even just America alone, Ukraine is probably never going to have complete air superiority, let alone air dominance, Russia still process enough air power to at least try to make Ukrainian airspace even, while it's a surprise that Russia was not able to gain air superiority outright, it's another issue to actually overcome Russia air power and air defence and for Ukraine to gain complete domain. Think about it, it takes Allied 500+ advance aircraft to subdue Saddam's air defences in the first gulf war, and Russia is not Iraq and Ukraine is not the Allied power....

Which mean the entire Air Power/Air Superiority talk for this or any counteroffensive is really a pointless thing because even if US were to transfer 100-200 F-16, and even if Ukraine have enough pilot to fly them, this is not going to even make a dent on Russia Air Domain, you probably can fly a few combat mission with relative odds but it's not going to be without casualty if Russia wanted to fight it, if they don't want to fight the air domain then that's another story, but there are virtually no chance for Ukraine to gain any air superiority, local or across the entire domain, in reality and in practicality.

Which mean it's never going to have air superiority to begin with for their counter offensive, it's not even a starting point to begin with, you probably have mistaken the parameter on how Ukraine fight and how NATO fight, they can't fight like us in NATO, they aren't us and we can't give them everything we have.


sad truth is this is a popularity contest like American Idol, just unlike American Idol, people died every day because of it.

You can't make policy unless you play political game, the issue here is, you need to make the party look good to be interested in something, on the other hand, this is not going to go away just because one party wants to.

That's the difference between bi-partisanism and absolute power you guys are used to in Europe, where the dominate party that form government have all the power they need, the political environment is always going to be on the middle in the US and one party need to make deal with the other even if they are holding office if you want to do anything, that's why these political game are played. This has been and continue to be since 1776.

its more for supporting their infantry while being able to have some sort of air dominance power as well. Ukrainian offensives have faced some trouble with Russian helicopters and strike aircraft. Having F-16 and Western munitions would allow Ukraine to push Russian aviation bit further from frontlines making things easier for ground troops. Shooting down a low flying aircraft with anti-air is hard as curvature of Earth gives it cover and so you need fighter planes to first detect and then shoot them down. Mig-29 has only medium range AA-missiles and as such Russians can just keep lobbing their longer range missiles from the safety of their own A network to keep them away from frontlines. With F-16 things will get more even allowing Ukraine to shoot back and to push Russian aviation bit further.

And 1 think the single biggest impact the F-16 COULD have is in the SEAD/DEAD roll using the Harm Targeting System to slew targeting pods to the location of SAM sites for prosecution with either HARM or JDAM/SDB/ CBU-105, etc... This "front line SEAD/DEAD" could mean better CAS for front line pushes.

 

[RoadAmerica]

Democrats were anti illegal immigration years ago. They only started this charade when Trump became president. I guess it's not that great to be a sanctuary state.

Completely false, sanctuary states have been around decades it’s only recently they’ve had to deal with the problem first hand.
The Democratic Party has been for open boarders and unchecked immigration for over 20 years.

Typical blame everything on trump, you sound like msnbc/cnn. Take the blinders off and you’ll see a lot more.

border issue are there way longer than war in Ukraine, it's a successive government issue both Republican and Democrats, the same problem we have in the 1980 is the same problem we have now, and I can tell you this is not going to solve with a few billion dollars or like Trump said build a wall around it......If it was that simple, we would have already done that.

If you want to improve border security? Change the constitution. It has nothing to do with the war fund in Ukraine, unless you think 40 billion or so can fix the border issue that last probably in the last 40 years.........

I agree change the constitution…guess what that’s exactly what trump is pushing for.

Obviously you didn’t notice the huge drop of illegal immigration under trump due to the policies he put in place only to be removed by sleepy joe thus causing the current disaster.

I actually wonder how much of American politics this board is really aware of or if they eat up the msm headline bs.

 

[Paul2]

Well, the problem you failed to see is that unlike combat operation in NATO or even just America alone, Ukraine is probably never going to have complete air superiority, let alone air dominance, Russia still process enough air power to at least try to make Ukrainian airspace even, while it's a surprise that Russia was not able to gain air superiority outright, it's another issue to actually overcome Russia air power and air defence and for Ukraine to gain complete domain. Think about it, it takes Allied 500+ advance aircraft to subdue Saddam's air defences in the first gulf war, and Russia is not Iraq and Ukraine is not the Allied power....

Both Russia and Ukraine had thousands of S300 missiles in store. If you add SHORAD missiles that will go beyond 10000 for side. I know of no NATO country with that amount of air defence ammo to spare.

10000 Patriot missiles with launchers and radars will cost a GDP of a small country to buy. Money-wise, acquiring so many of them is out of question even for USA itself.

And the price point for other equivalent SAM systems is largely set by American prices. Russia however enjoys with its own defence contractors under a thumb, and being able to manufacture it at close to the cost, which may be tens of times lower than the foreign market price.

 

[ZeGerman]

Well, the problem you failed to see is that unlike combat operation in NATO or even just America alone, Ukraine is probably never going to have complete air superiority, let alone air dominance, Russia still process enough air power to at least try to make Ukrainian airspace even, while it's a surprise that Russia was not able to gain air superiority outright, it's another issue to actually overcome Russia air power and air defence and for Ukraine to gain complete domain. Think about it, it takes Allied 500+ advance aircraft to subdue Saddam's air defences in the first gulf war, and Russia is not Iraq and Ukraine is not the Allied power....

Which mean the entire Air Power/Air Superiority talk for this or any counteroffensive is really a pointless thing because even if US were to transfer 100-200 F-16, and even if Ukraine have enough pilot to fly them, this is not going to even make a dent on Russia Air Domain, you probably can fly a few combat mission with relative odds but it's not going to be without casualty if Russia wanted to fight it, if they don't want to fight the air domain then that's another story, but there are virtually no chance for Ukraine to gain any air superiority, local or across the entire domain, in reality and in practicality.

Which mean it's never going to have air superiority to begin with for their counter offensive, it's not even a starting point to begin with, you probably have mistaken the parameter on how Ukraine fight and how NATO fight, they can't fight like us in NATO, they aren't us and we can't give them everything we have.


sad truth is this is a popularity contest like American Idol, just unlike American Idol, people died every day because of it.

You can't make policy unless you play political game, the issue here is, you need to make the party look good to be interested in something, on the other hand, this is not going to go away just because one party wants to.

That's the difference between bi-partisanism and absolute power you guys are used to in Europe, where the dominate party that form government have all the power they need, the political environment is always going to be on the middle in the US and one party need to make deal with the other even if they are holding office if you want to do anything, that's why these political game are played. This has been and continue to be since 1776.

You are mistaken about the “absolute power” thing in europe.

We have multiple parties and very rarely an outright majority for one party.
So policy is always a compromise and bargain between the government parties, and sometimes the opposition, often with an eye on public opinion for upcoming elections.

Problem with america is you amost have a two party system.
and the parties have become entrenched and estranged from eachother. Putting party politics and revanchism above the countries wellbeing.

 

[ZeGerman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1709124436333355452

https://twitter.com/x/status/1708864623556874343

Still with the “donbass genocide” LIE?

In 2021 there were 25 ukranian civilians killed in fighting in donbass. This is collateral damage and not direct targeting, and has both government and republic figures.

compare the donbass capital (almost unscathed….) to grozny, aleppo, mariopol you absolute trash

 

[jhungary]

Completely false, sanctuary states have been around decades it’s only recently they’ve had to deal with the problem first hand.
The Democratic Party has been for open boarders and unchecked immigration for over 20 years.

Typical blame everything on trump, you sound like msnbc/cnn. Take the blinders off and you’ll see a lot more.


I agree change the constitution…guess what that’s exactly what trump is pushing for.

Obviously you didn’t notice the huge drop of illegal immigration under trump due to the policies he put in place only to be removed by sleepy joe thus causing the current disaster.

I actually wonder how much of American politics this board is really aware of or if they eat up the msm headline bs.

Actually, the number for removal during trump was dropped, that does not mean illegal immigration dropped, that just mean the number of deportation and apprehension is lowered. There is no actual way to know the actual number of illegal immigrations to US during any presidency. I mean illegal alien would not put their hand up in a poll and say they are illegal so there is no real way to know the number.

You are mistaken about the “absolute power” thing in europe.

We have multiple parties and very rarely an outright majority for one party.
So policy is always a compromise and bargain between the government parties, and sometimes the opposition, often with an eye on public opinion for upcoming elections.

Problem with america is you amost have a two party system.
and the parties have become entrenched and estranged from eachother. Putting party politics and revanchism above the countries wellbeing.

No, I mean absolute power for government, ie if the government can go ahead with a policy, there is not a mechanism in place to stop that policy from happening. In the US, you can filibuster a policy even if you have majority of the Congress backing. In Europe, you comprise with party and/or coalition to make policy, once that was done, it is a done deal, but in the US, even if you get the number, it means nothing, that is why 28 odd Congressmen/Congresswomen can block a bill in a 435-seat congress.