Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2
- Thread starter waz
- Start date
jhungary
MILITARY PROFESSIONAL
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2012
- Messages
- 19,295
- Reaction score
- 387
- Country
- Location
first of all, even Gorbachev said NATO had not say anything about not to expand Eastward. Notice on his interview with RT's sister publication Russian Beyond, he said that was never discussed
Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls
The first and last president of the Soviet Union spoke with RBTH about the past and how it should inform the present.
Now I am not there in 1991 when Gorbachev discusses NATO taking over East Germany, and I am certain neither were you, but when Both James Baker and Gorbachev come out and say it was never discussed, the two people who were actually in that discussion, I tend to take their position.
NATO Membership is clear and simple, it does not change since the formation in 1949, if you feel threaten, you can apply, and if all the members agree of your application, you get membership, it has not and did not change for the last 70 odd years
On the other hand, as I said, there are like 100,000 ways to solve this with NATO or Ukraine. They can try to talk to NATO and ask for assurance instead of demand one, they can try to sway the next Ukrainian election like they did with the US and try to install a Pro-Russia government, they can evacuate Russian speaking Ukrainian by giving them passport and freedom to move to Russia, or Russia can apply pressure to Germany and France and even Turkey to have to reject Ukraine membership, Ukraine can't join until all 30 member say yes, and Russia have some degree of hold in Germany and France, they could have done many thousand things, but Russia is the one that choose war.
And you don't need to be a grand strategist to know choosing war is probably the dumbest idea ever because it is winner takes all. it only works if Russia can win, and I am certain Russia think they can win and take Kyiv, but everyone knows it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN since March 31, so what Russia do? They double down, knowing there are no way for them to win and by then it's pretty clear Zelenskyy government is going to stay in power, this war, the longer it continues, the more hatred that generate from the Ukrainian. There may be less than 50% chance Russia can install a pro-Russia government post Zelenskyy, the chances for this to happen in the next 100 years is almost zero. And the continue on with this war will only serve to militarize Ukraine further and drift them further apart. Now you have a highly motivated and highly energized neighbor that are going to hostile to you for 100 years maybe more, does that achieve what the Russian set out to achieve??
Again, you can blame NATO, I blame NATO because they should either clear cut and say Ukraine will never be accepted or piss off Russia out right and accept their membership instead of these dirty dealing of dangling the issue in front of Sweden and Finland and basically make Ukraine a cautionary tale to them. But then you need to equally blame Russia because they are the one who choose war with numerous action available to them, NATO did not force Russia to go to war with Ukraine, they are hoping for it to, but they did not force it, because nobody can force it, because it would mean using Ukraine to physically attack Russia, it has to be Putin and Russia willingness to go to war for that to happen. I don't know why people cannot see thing as simple as that.
P.S. I am pretty sure by now you should be able to see Ukraine DID built a strong army. This is all a Russian miscalculation. They want to win so they burn all the bridges, and then they couldn't
Last edited:
Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2017
- Messages
- 28,401
- Reaction score
- -82
- Country
- Location
Need laser guided 8 inch rounds.
F-22Raptor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 16,980
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Hassan Al-Somal
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2015
- Messages
- 6,825
- Reaction score
- -37
- Country
- Location
I agree with this part wholeheartedly. The West is hanging a carrot in front of the Ukraine horse while riding next to the Russian horse. Either feed it or not and not pussyfoot to get extra mileage.
The Russians were not getting a response, and saying do not invade doesn’t solve the issue either.
The blame goes to both sides, the West and Russia. Playing devil's advocate, maybe the West wanted this to neutralize Russia in its game against China? Wouldn’t you want to take out some of your enemy's allies before the showdown?
Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2017
- Messages
- 28,401
- Reaction score
- -82
- Country
- Location
The Russians were far more brutal in their Afghanistan & Chechnya offensive than in Ukraine. They limp-dicked in Ukraine, but then again, Ukrainians are beautiful blue-eyed blonde-haired. You can't compare that to brown-eyed black-haired serfs.
zectech
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2018
- Messages
- 4,090
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
Rumor has it that there is more than 300000 being called. That is from some chatter on twitter, I have not seen blue-checkmarks discussing this, though twitter members with hundreds of thousands of followers and other Ukrainian and Ukrainian war analysts are mentioning the 300000 is the first group. That there could be more after, up to 1 million.
Ukraine needs tens of thousands more shoulder fire weapons from NATO (anti-tank, RPGs, etc) vs the new 300000 Ivans.
Need to stop the Ivans.
Russia is a mafia state, the Russian mafia and Putin run Russia as a criminal organization as some monopoly game. It is not only Putin that would use nukes to defend this fiefdom. The notoriously cutthroat Russian mafia could order Putin to nuke Europe to protect their money making enterprise known as Russia. The mafia threaten Duma members to support Putin agenda. Not to mention the Chabad who brag that they run the legit and legal part of the Russian economy.
When one of the worst global mafias are the backers of Putin - the Russian mafia - this is more difficult to take down Putin than the USSR in the 80s and 90s. Putin is eventually going to step down, though the thugs that back Putin - The Russian Mafia, The Russian Oligarchs and Chabad are not leaving Russia as their money making scheme with one of the largest militaries. Gorbachev was a kinder person than Putin, was not backed by many criminals such as Putin, when Gorbachev let the USSR collapse, that was a one moment event. Putin and criminal backers is going to be much tougher to dethrone and transition to neo-liberalism. Putin persecuted the WJC leader(s) in Russia, perhaps because it was too neo-liberal, and pro-European. The Trumpian/Putinian Chabad took its place. What Trump is, is what Chabad is. Trump openly hates the Jews of the neo-liberal movement, same as Putin with the WJC. Behind closed doors are things different.?. For there to be democratic change in Russia. Putin and the Russia mafia need to go. Chabad and the Oligarchs could morph into faux neo-libs making money. For true democracy, there needs to be no Oligarchs and Putin billionaires in Russia. A clean slate for Russia. To take down these groups - Putin and cronies, Russia mafia and cronies, Russia oligarch and cronies, etc is very difficult. The only way to do this is to expose the entire Putin facade of criminal groups in Russia. Then reject it and embrace democracy.
Down with the Putin Ivans. Never liked those orcs.
Ukraine needs tens of thousands more shoulder fire weapons from NATO (anti-tank, RPGs, etc) vs the new 300000 Ivans.
Need to stop the Ivans.
Russia is a mafia state, the Russian mafia and Putin run Russia as a criminal organization as some monopoly game. It is not only Putin that would use nukes to defend this fiefdom. The notoriously cutthroat Russian mafia could order Putin to nuke Europe to protect their money making enterprise known as Russia. The mafia threaten Duma members to support Putin agenda. Not to mention the Chabad who brag that they run the legit and legal part of the Russian economy.
When one of the worst global mafias are the backers of Putin - the Russian mafia - this is more difficult to take down Putin than the USSR in the 80s and 90s. Putin is eventually going to step down, though the thugs that back Putin - The Russian Mafia, The Russian Oligarchs and Chabad are not leaving Russia as their money making scheme with one of the largest militaries. Gorbachev was a kinder person than Putin, was not backed by many criminals such as Putin, when Gorbachev let the USSR collapse, that was a one moment event. Putin and criminal backers is going to be much tougher to dethrone and transition to neo-liberalism. Putin persecuted the WJC leader(s) in Russia, perhaps because it was too neo-liberal, and pro-European. The Trumpian/Putinian Chabad took its place. What Trump is, is what Chabad is. Trump openly hates the Jews of the neo-liberal movement, same as Putin with the WJC. Behind closed doors are things different.?. For there to be democratic change in Russia. Putin and the Russia mafia need to go. Chabad and the Oligarchs could morph into faux neo-libs making money. For true democracy, there needs to be no Oligarchs and Putin billionaires in Russia. A clean slate for Russia. To take down these groups - Putin and cronies, Russia mafia and cronies, Russia oligarch and cronies, etc is very difficult. The only way to do this is to expose the entire Putin facade of criminal groups in Russia. Then reject it and embrace democracy.
Down with the Putin Ivans. Never liked those orcs.
Last edited:
Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2017
- Messages
- 28,401
- Reaction score
- -82
- Country
- Location
Similar threads
